Burr Brown DACs

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Seriously, how much better are these compared to other DACs among the major competitors that use them (Ex. Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo). Can you really say and tell the difference in sound? Are they surperior to others made by Texas Instruments and among others???

Case and Point. I have a $700 budget for a new reciever. I'm looking at an Onkyo ("used-like new") or an Onkyo 806 (New)

Which one would you go for???

[mikewills]

I've had an 806 for about a month and haven't encountered any issues. I've tried over and over to make blue dots appear, but I haven't seen anything close. I'm not sure if I would even be able to hear the difference in the DACs. All in all, I think the Onkyo 806 is the best bang for your buck.

Mike.

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Thanks mike. I have that chance at the Onkyo 805 which everyone still raves about.. Yet no matter where I look, no one can provide hard evidence that Burr Browns DACs on the 805 sound better than the Texas Instruments DAC's on the 806.

[kapitalisten]

JFYI, Burr-Brown was bought by Texas Instruments back in 2000, so the 806 might just contain a Burr-Brown DAC, just with a Texas Instruments badge on it

[Drew664]

I asked just about the very same question weeks ago.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=79390

The best response I got was to "let your ears decide." Not what you wanted to hear is it?

You'll never get a definitive answer because of two reasons. One, it's too subjective. And two, there are too many variables at work to say X is better than Y.

I think at best people can rate DACs in performance tiers without actually giving them a specific rank.

Example:

Burr Browns would rate in the Excellent Tier
(something from a cheapo HTiB) would rate in the Poor Tier

[nismo604]

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

Thanks mike. I have that chance at the Onkyo 805 which everyone still raves about.. Yet no matter where I look, no one can provide hard evidence that Burr Browns DACs on the 805 sound better than the Texas Instruments DAC's on the 806.

The DAC's in the 806 do not come from TI, they are from Cirrus Logic just like the 705/706. But Cirrus Logic is based out of Texas so your sort of close.

[sptrout]

Here is a link to a thread that you may find interesting: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...highlight=DACs

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Originally Posted by nismo604

The DAC's in the 806 do not come from TI, they are from Cirrus Logic just like the 705/706. But Cirrus Logic is based out of Texas so your sort of close.

Close...your right about the Cirrus Logic part. BUT...The full name on the DACs that I read on a site was Texas Instruments and Cirrus Logic DACs. So were both right???

[nismo604]

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

Close...your right about the Cirrus Logic part. BUT...The full name on the DACs that I read on a site was Texas Instruments and Cirrus Logic DACs. So were both right???

I think your mistaking the DSP chips which are indeed from TI with the DACs.

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Originally Posted by nismo604

I think your mistaking the DSP chips which are indeed from TI with the DACs.

Possibly...

Opinion. i bought a used 805, but the issues (lip sync) with that reciever along with it getting hot are causing some buyers remource...Should I have gone with the 806 instead???

[Slec]

Someone could correct me if I have this wrong:

I thought onkyo dropped Burr Brown from the new line because they weren't making enough money on the AVR's.

Also don't forget that there are many levels of DAC's from each company so a good cirrus logic will have a higher signal-to-noise ratio than a low end TI/BB DAC. (which should result in a more accurate sound at volume)

[sptrout]

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

Possibly...

Opinion. i bought a used 805, but the issues (lip sync) with that reciever along with it getting hot are causing some buyers remource...Should I have gone with the 806 instead???

I have an 805 (about 3 months old, bought new) and I do not have lip sync issues at all. As for the heat, just keep it ventilated per the instruction manual, and all should be fine. If your installation does not permit open access for ventilation then there are fans that can be easily added. I think both of these issues are way over blown.

[nismo604]

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

Possibly...

Opinion. i bought a used 805, but the issues (lip sync) with that reciever along with it getting hot are causing some buyers remource...Should I have gone with the 806 instead???

I wouldn't give up my 805 for an 806 that's for sure. I haven't experienced any lip sync issues, try running Audyssey again and see if that helps. Now as far as the heat, yes it does get hot but the 805 is really a powerful receiver. Home Theater Mag. measured 120.4 watts with all 7 channels driven, really close the claimed rated wattage of 130 watts. As reference look how these similarly priced receivers(some more expensive) held up to their claimed rated wattage.

7 channels driven
Claimed VS. Actual

Yamaha RX-V863 105 41.6
Sony STR-DA4300ES 100 43.1
Denon AVR-3808 130 113.5
Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH 130 120.00

You can see that the Onkyo definately outclasses similarly priced receivers and on par or bests more expensive offerings. So my answer is HELL NO.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by nismo604

Sound and Vision measured 120.4 watts with all 7 channels driven, really close the claimed rated wattage of 130 watts.

Do you have a link for this please?

Thanks.

[sptrout]

Originally Posted by Slec

Someone could correct me if I have this wrong:

I thought onkyo dropped Burr Brown from the new line because they weren't making enough money on the AVR's.

Also don't forget that there are many levels of DAC's from each company so a good cirrus logic will have a higher signal-to-noise ratio than a low end TI/BB DAC. (which should result in a more accurate sound at volume)

People have speculated that Onkyo removed the Burr Brown DACs from the 806 for money issues, but nobody really knows. My guess is that it was strictly for marketing purposes to show more of a perceived difference between the 806 and the 876. The same thing can be said for the disappearing ~15 pounds of weight (805 vs 806). As you may have seen in the link I provided earlier, the wholesale price differences between the various DACs are very minor so there is no obvious reason to redesign the 806 for a different brand of DACs other than for marketing IMO.

[nismo604]

Originally Posted by Slec

Someone could correct me if I have this wrong:

I thought onkyo dropped Burr Brown from the new line because they weren't making enough money on the AVR's.

Also don't forget that there are many levels of DAC's from each company so a good cirrus logic will have a higher signal-to-noise ratio than a low end TI/BB DAC. (which should result in a more accurate sound at volume)

That's true for the 806 Onkyo dropped the burr-browns that were on the 805 and replaced them with Cirrus Logic ones. The 876 and up retain the BB DACs.

The Burr-Browns on the 805 the 1796 are just one step below BB best offerings at the moment the 1792.

The 1796 is also used on these receivers as well, the $7,000 Denon AVP-A1HDCI, $5,200 Denon AVR-5308CI, and $5,500 Yamaha Z11.

Also note that for the 706/806 that Onkyo only placed two TI DSPs vs. the three that were on the 705/805.

[nismo604]

Originally Posted by fireman325

Do you have a link for this please?

Thanks.

here you go! Sorry quoted the wrong magazine, it was done by Home Theater Mag.

http://hometheatermag.com/compactspe...nk/index5.html

just for consistency I only used data from hometheatermag.com reviews as other sites may test differently.

[Slec]

Originally Posted by sptrout

People have speculated that Onkyo removed the Burr Brown DACs from the 806 for money issues, but nobody really knows. My guess is that it was strictly for marketing purposes to show more of a perceived difference between the 806 and the 876. The same thing can be said for the disappearing ~15 pounds of weight (805 vs 806). As you may have seen in the link I provided earlier, the wholesale price differences between the various DACs are very minor so there is no obvious reason to redesign the 806 for a different brand of DACs other than for marketing IMO.

Originally Posted by nismo604

That's true for the 806 Onkyo dropped the burr-browns that were on the 805 and replaced them with Cirrus Logic ones. The 876 and up retain the BB DACs.

Also note that for the 706/806 that Onkyo only placed two TI DSPs vs. the three that were on the 705/805.

I think its fairly safe to assume that if the TI/BB were kept for the high end models and removed from the lower end models, than it was done as a measure to save money, not marketing. Same can be said for dropping 1 DAC from the unit.

The 805's 1791 are $6.50 a pc. Sure, only $19.50 for 3. If 2 cheaper units replace these, then when economy of scale kicks in, that could be massive savings.

The flip side is the possibility that 2 better DAC's were placed in the unit to do the job 3 previously performed. However, being that the 805/875/905 shared the same DAC, if a better one were made available, it would be in the higher end units, not the lower end ones.

The biggest question is, what happened to that 15 lbs? I understand that parts get smaller and more efficient year in and year out, but this seems like a reduction in overall build quality took place as well.

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by sptrout

People have speculated that Onkyo removed the Burr Brown DACs from the 806 for money issues, but nobody really knows. My guess is that it was strictly for marketing purposes to show more of a perceived difference between the 806 and the 876. The same thing can be said for the disappearing ~15 pounds of weight (805 vs 806). As you may have seen in the link I provided earlier, the wholesale price differences between the various DACs are very minor so there is no obvious reason to redesign the 806 for a different brand of DACs other than for marketing IMO.

Holy hell! There's a 15 pound weight difference between the 805 and 806? That amount of weight difference can only come from significant changes to the power supply and ampification section, and that's probably not a good thing.

What are the differences in amplification specs, including watts and distortion between the 805 and 806?

[nismo604]

Originally Posted by Slec

I think its fairly safe to assume that if the TI/BB were kept for the high end models and removed from the lower end models, than it was done as a measure to save money, not marketing. Same can be said for dropping 1 DAC from the unit.

The 805's 1791 are $6.50 a pc. Sure, only $19.50 for 3. If 2 cheaper units replace these, then when economy of scale kicks in, that could be massive savings.

The flip side is the possibility that 2 better DAC's were placed in the unit to do the job 3 previously performed. However, being that the 805/875/905 shared the same DAC, if a better one were made available, it would be in the higher end units, not the lower end ones.

The biggest question is, what happened to that 15 lbs? I understand that parts get smaller and more efficient year in and year out, but this seems like a reduction in overall build quality took place as well.

Well for one thing I think your mistaking DSP chips and DAC chips totally different. DSPs handle the decoding and soundfield processing, DAC's convert the decoded digital info to analog. For the 806 Onkyo dropped the DSPs quantity from 3 to 2 and changed the DACs from BB to Cirrus Logic units. The 706 also suffered the loss of a DSP chip as the 705 had 3.
Now as far as the weight, this is where Onkyo really gutted the 806. The amp section on the 805 is a lot more robust than the 806, maily due to the smaller power supply of the 806. Sure both are rated the same but a quick look at THD figures reveal that 806 just isn't as powerful, 0.05THD vs. 0.08THD, lower is better. I suggest you read the review done by Secrets to Hifi, they have a review for both the 805 and 806. The 805 has BB PCM 1796

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-1.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/proce...-receiver.html