My first dedicated home theater - on a budget - Blu-ray Forum

jdlivestrong · 01-07-2009, 12:59 AM

First of all, I have to say how much I enjoy this forum and its members!

I've been thinking about turning my basement into a dedicated home theater room. I think I've read just about every review on 720p and 1080p projectors. I was originally going to spring for a 1080p projector, but I just don't have the budget for it and can't see that happening any time soon with my wife and I expecting our first child. So, I've decided that I want to get a 720p projector and the Epson Home Cinema 720 has made it to the top of my list.

I wanted to get some advice before I take the plunge (I almost bought it today). I'm looking at getting a package deal from projectionguys.com. The Epson HC720 with the upgraded 106" Elite ezFrame R106H1 (CineGray screen, 1.0 gain, black velvet fixed frame). The package also includes a ceiling mount, 25 ft of HDMI, component, s-video, and composite cables, a mail in rebate for a free replacement lamp, and an upconverting DVD player. After all the discounts and rebates, the total with shipping would be $1480. The Epson also comes with the 2 year overnight replacement warranty that Epson has become known (and maybe even loved) for.

All of the a/v equipment from my signature will be moved to the theater room so I should have everything else that I need covered. I'll be using the theater room for 70% movies (80% Blu Ray, 20% SD-DVD) and 30% TV (mainly sports). I will also have 100% light control in the room. My viewing distance will be about 12ft and I plan to mount the projector on the ceiling anywhere from 10 to 15ft from the screen (depending on what is optimal).

Sorry if this is getting too long, I just want to paint a clear picture.

My questions:

- Is that screen a solid screen? Should I be getting the CineGray or CineWhite version (I'm leaning towards the CineWhite)? Will it be a screen that I can keep and be happy with when I decide to get a 1080p projector in a couple years?

- Is this a good deal? Or could I find something similar out there for much less? If so, could you point me in the right direction?

I know a lot of you will tell me to save some more money and get a 1080p projector...and I respect that, I just can't spend that kind of money right now. From some of the screen shots I've seen of 720p projectors in action, I think I'll be more than happy with the results for a couple of years.

Any insights you have would be appreciated!

primaz · 01-07-2009, 07:26 AM

I recommend to get the 1080 projector but do so at the price of the 720 buy buying a used one. This next year with so many great new 1080 projectors you will find a lot of people upgrading so that would be better to get someone's used projector.

I also think used is good for the electronics for certain brands. In early 2009 Outlaw Audio is putting on their new flag ship surround sound pre amp processor for $1300 and they are selling the previous model for around $699 but to go even cheaper there are a lot of people with that model and it will go for around $375-400 on Ebay. That way you do not need to settle for a reciever processor yet have separates at a bargin.

jdlivestrong · 01-07-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primaz

I recommend to get the 1080 projector but do so at the price of the 720 buy buying a used one. This next year with so many great new 1080 projectors you will find a lot of people upgrading so that would be better to get someone's used projector.

I'm just having a hard time believing that the Epson HC720 isn't a quality projector...I think it would stack up just fine with a 1 year old used 1080p model. And I would have the peace of mind that if anything happened to it in the next 2 years it would be replaced with a new one for free. If I find a used 1080p projector and it breaks, I'm out $1000. If I knew someone locally that was selling one, I might feel better about it, but I don't think I'm ready to roll the dice on eBay.

I appreciate the advice and will keep it in my back pocket. I'm hopeful there are some others out there who have been in my shoes recently and can help.

jdlivestrong · 01-07-2009, 12:09 PM

The price dropped to $1400 shipped today (thru 1/12), but no free DVD player (I probably wouldn't have used it anyway).

FIDDYPOP · 01-07-2009, 12:36 PM

I have been researching Projector screens, there are even instructions on these forums on how to make your own for under a hundred bucks. Everything I have read states that white screens are the best to go with.

jdlivestrong · 01-07-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIDDYPOP

I have been researching Projector screens, there are even instructions on these forums on how to make your own for under a hundred bucks. Everything I have read states that white screens are the best to go with.

Thanks FIDDYPOP...I've looked into making my own, but I decided that spending a couple hundred dollars more for a proven, pre-made screen was the right solution for me. I'm leaning towards a white screen right now, but the gray may be kind of nice for the extra contrast (or deeper blacks).

By the way...I really like your media shelves...where did you get them and how much?

FIDDYPOP · 01-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlivestrong

Thanks FIDDYPOP...I've looked into making my own, but I decided that spending a couple hundred dollars more for a proven, pre-made screen was the right solution for me. I'm leaning towards a white screen right now, but the gray may be kind of nice for the extra contrast (or deeper blacks).

By the way...I really like your media shelves...where did you get them and how much?

I purchased them at Best Buy, they were like $250. The doors are nice though keeps my dog from chewing up the cases or my kid from reaching in and touching with grubby fingers.

primaz · 01-08-2009, 11:26 PM

you can go and visit the buyer and see the unit for yourself running before you buy one. As an example I did a quick search locally on craigs list and found this Epson http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...rLite_735c.htm that some person is asking $400. You can often bargin face to face and get them to take a lower cash price. To me that way you spend say $4-700 on a projector an including a screen. I even saw this http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ele/984333593.html a In Focus home theater projector with drop down screen supposedly with 200 hours on it for $580 bucks!

To me why buy a new 720 when it is old technology? The price for some of the new possibly best in class projectors like the new Epson or Panny 1080 that just came out are selling for $2700.

You might consider getting the projector used but the screen spend more for the ideal screen for the 1080 future projector?

jdlivestrong · 01-09-2009, 01:31 AM

Yes, I'm a big craigslist fan...I've bought more from people locally off of craigslist than I care to admit. TV's, computers, cameras, speakers, cars, wheels, etc. I've searched my area again and again for projectors without any luck. Most people are just selling business type projectors. The one that I did find that I was interested in was an Optoma HD70...but the bulb life was half over and the screen was a manual pull down. Even if he took an offer, I feel like I'd still be better off spending an extra $400 and getting the screen I want (that will be able to last through my next couple of upgrades) and a brand new projector with a 2 year warranty, an extra bulb, and all the stuff I need to set it up.

Here's what it boils down to for me:
Screen - $470 (thats what I would have paid for the screen alone)
Cables and mount - $100

I figure the screen, mount, and cables will stay with me for at least another upgrade (hopefully more). Take that off of the $1400 package price ($1400 - $570) and you get $830 that I'm paying for the projector. Then...say I decide that I want to upgrade in around 2 years (when there is a little more 1080p content and prices have come down). My bulb would likely be getting towards the end of its life, but I would be able to sell the projector with a brand new bulb that I got for free. That's gotta be worth around $500 (the bulb alone should be worth half that on eBay). That means it only cost me $330 (+/- what I would get above or below $500) to run my first projector for 2 years...that's $165/year. Plus I get the peace of mind that if anything happens to it for the next 2 years Epson will replace it.

Or I buy a used 720p projector...say I find a decent one for $600 with half of its bulb life left. I run it for a year and replace the bulb for $200 (if I'm lucky). I decide to sell it at the end of year 2 with half of its life left...maybe I get $300 for it. I'd have $800 ($600 + $200 bulb) into it and sell it for $300...that's $500 for 2 years or $250/year. And that is assuming that I don't have to pay for any repairs.

Now say I go the other way and drop $2500 on a 1080p projector...maybe I even find one with a free bulb. I run it for 4 years and at the end of the 4 years I decide to upgrade and sell it. The 2nd bulb would be close to dead by then so $500 might be a stretch. Say I get $500...that would mean it cost me $2000 to run for 4 years or $500/year.

Is the 1080p worth it? Heck yes...I just don't really have the funds to spend right now. That's why I'm thinking the HC720 would be able to hold me over for a couple of years until:
1. there is more 1080p content
2. prices go down a bit
3. I know more about projectors and what I like
4. I have some more money
And it would only cost me $165/year.

I'm not saying that there is one of these that is right for everyone...it just seems that the new Epson HC720 might be the best option for me.

b15nut · 01-11-2009, 03:59 AM

PM hifisyd he has the package with the HC720 but has the 92" Infocus screen.

jdlivestrong · 01-11-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15nut

PM hifisyd he has the package with the HC720 but has the 92" Infocus screen.

Awesome...thanks, b15nut!

jdlivestrong · 01-13-2009, 03:42 AM

Well, I sold my 50" 1080p Sammy Plasma today...one step closer to pulling the trigger on my first projector. I'm still leaning towards the Epson HC720, but I noticed today that the Mitsubishi HC5500 is pretty decently priced at Projection Guys. It would only be $2050 with an extra bulb, cable/mount kit, and a 106" Elite fixed screen (after $300 & $99 mail in rebates).

If nothing else, it'll make me at least think about it for another day.

Texitura · 01-18-2009, 07:08 PM

If you haven't pulled the trigger yet, can I ask if you've considered a 2.40 AR CIH (Constant Image Height) screen?

jdlivestrong · 01-19-2009, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texitura

If you haven't pulled the trigger yet, can I ask if you've considered a 2.40 AR CIH (Constant Image Height) screen?

I haven't considered that...to be honest, I don't really know much about the subject at all. I wanted to go 16:9 so that I could also watch TV. Is there a good place to go to read more about 2.40 AR CIH?

Brain Sturgeon · 01-19-2009, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlivestrong

I haven't considered that...to be honest, I don't really know much about the subject at all. I wanted to go 16:9 so that I could also watch TV. Is there a good place to go to read more about 2.40 AR CIH?

Definitely something to consider in any dedicated theater, although it may add a bit of cost to your theater. To limit cost, you would probably want to use the "zoom method" which is zooming your projectors image and readjusting the lens offset to fill your scope screen with the image and leave the black bars outside (above and below) of the screen area. If you use a 720p projector, you may run into issues with screen door effect if you should zoom onto a large scope screen. This will obviously be less of an issue with 1080p projectors.

Here is a good thread with some basics on scope FP setups:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554901

You can also learn a fair bit from Panamorph's site on on CIH systems:

http://panamorph.com/

Also, here is something I posted re: scope systems on another thread:

Quote:

The "zoom" technique is simply using the zoom lens on any projector to fill a 2.35:1 screen, with the black bars falling above and below the screen. You can do this with any projector as long as you are within the appropriate zoom range for your given throw length.

The "lens" technique places an anamorphic lens (typically a 1.33 horizontal expansion lens) in front of your projector's lens. Your projector, or your outboard video scalar, would then need to vertically stretch the projected image 1.33x so that the black bars are excluded from your image panel. As the vertically stretched image passes through the anamorphic lens, your image is reconstituted into the correct aspect ratio onto your scope screen.

There are good and bad things about both:

"zoom" technique
pros: cheaper, easier projector setup, no pincushion introduced into the image.
cons: Reduced horizontal resolution, need to rezoom when switching between 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 material

"lens" technique
pros: Uses the entire imaging panel (full horizontal resolution) to create the image, brighter image (up to ~20% brighter than using the zoom technique), quicker and more elegant switching between aspect ratios (can be done by moving lens in/out using manual/automated sleds and turning the vertical stretch on/off, or by leaving the lens permanently in place and adjusting the aspect ratio electronically using your projector or an outboard scalar, or by using one of Prismasonic's lenses that leaves the lens in place and switches between anamorphic and non-anamorphic "pass through" modes)
cons: introduction of pincushion distortion into the image, reduction of MTF and subsequently ANSI contrast by introduction of another lens into the light path, more expensive, more complicated projector set-up.

HTH

jdlivestrong · 01-20-2009, 11:40 PM

Thanks for all the info, fellas! What I really need is for someone who lives closer to come over and scope things out. Right now, the limiting factor for me is budget. But at the same time, I don't want to have a bunch of regrets once I have it all set up. I guess that's what learning is all about though...you can only plan so much...I think I just need to pull the trigger and get started. I'll eventually find out what I like and don't like so that I can keep a list to integrate into my next try.

I'm hoping to order the Epson HC720 package from ProjectionGuys tomorrow. I just can't seem to find any better deals that give me the flexibility that this package offers.

Again, thanks to everyone for your thoughts/advice. I really enjoy this forum!

leov36 · 01-21-2009, 12:32 AM

I have this same projector, and I am very happy with it. i definitely spent along time pondering whether or not a projector would fit right in my room, or if I’d be happy with the end result. Well, its the best decision I made regarding ht, and gl with your purchase.

jdlivestrong · 01-21-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leov36

I have this same projector, and I am very happy with it. i definitely spent along time pondering whether or not a projector would fit right in my room, or if I’d be happy with the end result. Well, its the best decision I made regarding ht, and gl with your purchase.

Very cool...just checked out your setup. If you get around to it, you should take some more screen shots to show your HC720 in action. What are your thoughts on the picture quality? If you're 10' away at 84"...I might be pretty close to the same 12' away at 106". I'm very interested in hearing more about the picture quality!

leov36 · 01-21-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlivestrong

Very cool...just checked out your setup. If you get around to it, you should take some more screen shots to show your HC720 in action. What are your thoughts on the picture quality? If you're 10' away at 84"...I might be pretty close to the same 12' away at 106". I'm very interested in hearing more about the picture quality!

well, im very happy with the pic quality of this projector. when i purchased it, i went to several ht shops to compare with other projectors in this price range and found this the best for me and my needs.
i have some more screen shot on my computer, ill post them up when i get home tonight.

leov36 · 01-21-2009, 04:37 PM

heres a couple i forgot i had on my pb account

this is sd dvd 4:3 with all the lights on

this is a HD trailer for a disney movie. no lights on

and lastly is just another still shot from a hd trailer, lights off.

i have some more bd dark knight shots on my home computer, ill post those up if you want, they will probably give you a better idea what skin tones and live action looks like in hd

01-07-2009, 12:59 AM	#1
jdlivestrong Member Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:104	Advice on a budget projector / screen package - Epson HC720 First of all, I have to say how much I enjoy this forum and its members! I've been thinking about turning my basement into a dedicated home theater room. I think I've read just about every review on 720p and 1080p projectors. I was originally going to spring for a 1080p projector, but I just don't have the budget for it and can't see that happening any time soon with my wife and I expecting our first child. So, I've decided that I want to get a 720p projector and the Epson Home Cinema 720 has made it to the top of my list. I wanted to get some advice before I take the plunge (I almost bought it today). I'm looking at getting a package deal from projectionguys.com. The Epson HC720 with the upgraded 106" Elite ezFrame R106H1 (CineGray screen, 1.0 gain, black velvet fixed frame). The package also includes a ceiling mount, 25 ft of HDMI, component, s-video, and composite cables, a mail in rebate for a free replacement lamp, and an upconverting DVD player. After all the discounts and rebates, the total with shipping would be $1480. The Epson also comes with the 2 year overnight replacement warranty that Epson has become known (and maybe even loved) for. All of the a/v equipment from my signature will be moved to the theater room so I should have everything else that I need covered. I'll be using the theater room for 70% movies (80% Blu Ray, 20% SD-DVD) and 30% TV (mainly sports). I will also have 100% light control in the room. My viewing distance will be about 12ft and I plan to mount the projector on the ceiling anywhere from 10 to 15ft from the screen (depending on what is optimal). Sorry if this is getting too long, I just want to paint a clear picture. My questions: - Is that screen a solid screen? Should I be getting the CineGray or CineWhite version (I'm leaning towards the CineWhite)? Will it be a screen that I can keep and be happy with when I decide to get a 1080p projector in a couple years? - Is this a good deal? Or could I find something similar out there for much less? If so, could you point me in the right direction? I know a lot of you will tell me to save some more money and get a 1080p projector...and I respect that, I just can't spend that kind of money right now. From some of the screen shots I've seen of 720p projectors in action, I think I'll be more than happy with the results for a couple of years. Any insights you have would be appreciated! Last edited by jdlivestrong; 01-07-2009 at 02:38 AM. Reason: Poor title choice

01-07-2009, 07:26 AM	#2
primaz Active Member Member since:Dec 2008	Budget is fine but for I always believe in quality so... I recommend to get the 1080 projector but do so at the price of the 720 buy buying a used one. This next year with so many great new 1080 projectors you will find a lot of people upgrading so that would be better to get someone's used projector. I also think used is good for the electronics for certain brands. In early 2009 Outlaw Audio is putting on their new flag ship surround sound pre amp processor for $1300 and they are selling the previous model for around $699 but to go even cheaper there are a lot of people with that model and it will go for around $375-400 on Ebay. That way you do not need to settle for a reciever processor yet have separates at a bargin.

01-07-2009, 12:09 PM	#4
jdlivestrong Member Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:104	Price Dropped The price dropped to $1400 shipped today (thru 1/12), but no free DVD player (I probably wouldn't have used it anyway).

01-08-2009, 11:26 PM	#8
primaz Active Member Member since:Dec 2008	You might consider local craigs lists postings so that... you can go and visit the buyer and see the unit for yourself running before you buy one. As an example I did a quick search locally on craigs list and found this Epson http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...rLite_735c.htm that some person is asking $400. You can often bargin face to face and get them to take a lower cash price. To me that way you spend say $4-700 on a projector an including a screen. I even saw this http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ele/984333593.html a In Focus home theater projector with drop down screen supposedly with 200 hours on it for $580 bucks! To me why buy a new 720 when it is old technology? The price for some of the new possibly best in class projectors like the new Epson or Panny 1080 that just came out are selling for $2700. You might consider getting the projector used but the screen spend more for the ideal screen for the 1080 future projector?

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01-07-2009, 12:36 PM	#5
FIDDYPOP Expert Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Chi-Town Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray collection:444 Blu-ray reviews:1	I have been researching Projector screens, there are even instructions on these forums on how to make your own for under a hundred bucks. Everything I have read states that white screens are the best to go with.

01-09-2009, 01:31 AM	#9
jdlivestrong Member Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:104	Yes, I'm a big craigslist fan...I've bought more from people locally off of craigslist than I care to admit. TV's, computers, cameras, speakers, cars, wheels, etc. I've searched my area again and again for projectors without any luck. Most people are just selling business type projectors. The one that I did find that I was interested in was an Optoma HD70...but the bulb life was half over and the screen was a manual pull down. Even if he took an offer, I feel like I'd still be better off spending an extra $400 and getting the screen I want (that will be able to last through my next couple of upgrades) and a brand new projector with a 2 year warranty, an extra bulb, and all the stuff I need to set it up. Here's what it boils down to for me: Screen - $470 (thats what I would have paid for the screen alone) Cables and mount - $100 I figure the screen, mount, and cables will stay with me for at least another upgrade (hopefully more). Take that off of the $1400 package price ($1400 - $570) and you get $830 that I'm paying for the projector. Then...say I decide that I want to upgrade in around 2 years (when there is a little more 1080p content and prices have come down). My bulb would likely be getting towards the end of its life, but I would be able to sell the projector with a brand new bulb that I got for free. That's gotta be worth around $500 (the bulb alone should be worth half that on eBay). That means it only cost me $330 (+/- what I would get above or below $500) to run my first projector for 2 years...that's $165/year. Plus I get the peace of mind that if anything happens to it for the next 2 years Epson will replace it. Or I buy a used 720p projector...say I find a decent one for $600 with half of its bulb life left. I run it for a year and replace the bulb for $200 (if I'm lucky). I decide to sell it at the end of year 2 with half of its life left...maybe I get $300 for it. I'd have $800 ($600 + $200 bulb) into it and sell it for $300...that's $500 for 2 years or $250/year. And that is assuming that I don't have to pay for any repairs. Now say I go the other way and drop $2500 on a 1080p projector...maybe I even find one with a free bulb. I run it for 4 years and at the end of the 4 years I decide to upgrade and sell it. The 2nd bulb would be close to dead by then so $500 might be a stretch. Say I get $500...that would mean it cost me $2000 to run for 4 years or $500/year. Is the 1080p worth it? Heck yes...I just don't really have the funds to spend right now. That's why I'm thinking the HC720 would be able to hold me over for a couple of years until: 1. there is more 1080p content 2. prices go down a bit 3. I know more about projectors and what I like 4. I have some more money And it would only cost me $165/year. I'm not saying that there is one of these that is right for everyone...it just seems that the new Epson HC720 might be the best option for me.

01-11-2009, 03:59 AM	#10
b15nut Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Queen Creek, AZ Blu-ray collection:9 Trading Score:6	PM hifisyd he has the package with the HC720 but has the 92" Infocus screen.

01-13-2009, 03:42 AM	#12
jdlivestrong Member Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:104	Well, I sold my 50" 1080p Sammy Plasma today...one step closer to pulling the trigger on my first projector. I'm still leaning towards the Epson HC720, but I noticed today that the Mitsubishi HC5500 is pretty decently priced at Projection Guys. It would only be $2050 with an extra bulb, cable/mount kit, and a 106" Elite fixed screen (after $300 & $99 mail in rebates). If nothing else, it'll make me at least think about it for another day.

01-18-2009, 07:08 PM	#13
Texitura Active Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray collection:31	If you haven't pulled the trigger yet, can I ask if you've considered a 2.40 AR CIH (Constant Image Height) screen?

01-20-2009, 11:40 PM	#16
jdlivestrong Member Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:104	Thanks for all the info, fellas! What I really need is for someone who lives closer to come over and scope things out. Right now, the limiting factor for me is budget. But at the same time, I don't want to have a bunch of regrets once I have it all set up. I guess that's what learning is all about though...you can only plan so much...I think I just need to pull the trigger and get started. I'll eventually find out what I like and don't like so that I can keep a list to integrate into my next try. I'm hoping to order the Epson HC720 package from ProjectionGuys tomorrow. I just can't seem to find any better deals that give me the flexibility that this package offers. Again, thanks to everyone for your thoughts/advice. I really enjoy this forum!

01-21-2009, 12:32 AM	#17
leov36 Active Member Member since:Aug 2008 Location:USA Home Theater Gallery:23 4K collection:9 Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:6	I have this same projector, and I am very happy with it. i definitely spent along time pondering whether or not a projector would fit right in my room, or if I’d be happy with the end result. Well, its the best decision I made regarding ht, and gl with your purchase.

01-21-2009, 04:37 PM	#20
leov36 Active Member Member since:Aug 2008 Location:USA Home Theater Gallery:23 4K collection:9 Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:6	heres a couple i forgot i had on my pb account this is sd dvd 4:3 with all the lights on this is a HD trailer for a disney movie. no lights on and lastly is just another still shot from a hd trailer, lights off. i have some more bd dark knight shots on my home computer, ill post those up if you want, they will probably give you a better idea what skin tones and live action looks like in hd

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