5020 vs 111FD

[JimShaw]

I have narrowed my new TV down to either a:

Pioneer 5020

or

Panasonic TH-50PZ800U

They cost about the same around $2,000

Since this will be my first plasma, I don't know what I am looking for. Please give your thoughts on the above two.


Thanks

[UPSandy]

im a little biased but def the pioneer

[crackinhedz]

yeah, I would have to go with the Pioneer.

Although both would be A+ choices.

[Santeria]

Pioneer the blacks are crazy good

[JimShaw]

I just came across a review by Matthew Moskovciak regarding both TVs

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Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD reviewed, and why Panasonic is rated higher
Posted by Matthew Moskovciak

For quite some time, the battle for CNET's "Best HDTV Overall" has essentially been between Pioneer's and Panasonic's plasmas. Plasma technology may be losing market share every year, but it's still the clear winner when it comes to image quality, thanks to deep, rich blacks that LCDs still can't match. And the conventional wisdom lately has basically been that Pioneer is the best bet for flat-panel videophiles, due to its industry-best black levels (excluding Sony's little OLED set.)

We posted our full review of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD on Friday, and home theater buffs are likely to be surprised that it's actually rated lower the Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U. We fully expected the resulting angry e-mails and hundred-post AVS Forum threads, so it's worth explaining the ratings, which we've put a lot of thought into. Our opinions are all in the review, but here's the short version:

Pioneer crippled the picture controls
If you're into home theater, you know that a properly adjusted display requires some tweaking in the user menu to get it to look its best. Unfortunately--and somewhat inexplicably--Pioneer dropped many of the picture controls that would allow savvy owners to get a better picture on the PDP-5020FD. You can't adjust the color temperature or the primary colors, which is a real issue because the primary colors of the PDP-5020FD aren't that close to the broadcast standard. More picture controls are available on the step-up Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD, but be prepared to spend about $5,000 for it.

The diminishing returns of blacker blacks
We love deep blacks on HDTVs. Nothing makes a picture pop more than rich blacks, and it's the the biggest component of what makes an image look good. That being said, the closer we get to "absolute black" and infinite contrast ratios, the less incremental increases in black level affect the overall picture quality--in our experience. When we compared the PDP-5020FD and the TH-50PZ800U side-by-side, there was no doubt the that Pioneer is the black-level king, but both sets are so good at getting dark that we felt that color accuracy wound up being a more important factor--and the Panasonic easily trumped Pioneer in this regard.

The new design negatively affects the viewing experience
This might seem like a major nitpick, but I noticed this as soon as I sat down to watch the PDP-5020FD. The frame surrounding the actual panel is very reflective, and the panel itself it inset a significant amount. The problem is that in a completely dark room, you can easily see the light from the screen reflecting off the inside of the bezel, which makes it look like a halo surrounding the screen--very annoying. This may not show up in every home theater, but it's definitely distracting, especially on an HDTV that's built for videophiles who care about details like that.

The PDP-5020FD is really expensive
This didn't necessarily go into the rating, but there's no denying that for the vast majority of buyers, the Pioneer PDP-5020FD just isn't worth the huge premium over the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U. The difference is about $1,500 at current market prices, and we really had a hard time finding reasons to justify the extra cost. Yes, the PDP-5020FD produces the darkest blacks of any plasma we've reviewed, but the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U has great blacks as well and its color is a whole lot more accurate.

That being said, let's not lose sight of the fact that the Pioneer PDP-5020FD is still an exceptional HDTV--we rated it 8.4 overall, which is pretty darn high on our scale.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I price difference between the two are now about the same.



.

[graf1k]

I still have a problem with the Cnet reviews of those two TVs. When you look at the post JimShaw just put up where Cnet defends their rating, the only real arguement they make is price and the gimped picture controls. Given that now the prices are about equal, that only leaves one negative for the 5020 while if you look at the review for the Panasonic, they also cite gimped picture controls as a negative, but apparently there is also flicker with the set in 24p mode which I would say is quite a serious negative personally.

Then again, I am no longer completely objective. I just finally placed my order for the 5020 tonight!

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by graf1k

I still have a problem with the Cnet reviews of those two TVs. When you look at the post JimShaw just put up where Cnet defends their rating, the only real arguement they make is price and the gimped picture controls. Given that now the prices are about equal, that only leaves one negative for the 5020 while if you look at the review for the Panasonic, they also cite gimped picture controls as a negative, but apparently there is also flicker with the set in 24p mode which I would say is quite a serious negative personally.

Then again, I am no longer completely objective. I just finally placed my order for the 5020 tonight!

"apparently there is also flicker with the set in 24p mode which I would say is quite a serious negative personally"

Thanks for your input. I would also find the "flicker" a serious negative.

[Sonny]

I have both & I'll take my 5020 to the grave over my 800u. & I love Panasonic!
Everyone is entitled to there opinion on which has better PQ.

[lghaze42]

It seems that "deep blacks" are all that matters when it comes to pic quality.Color accuracy and THX certification means nothing.I know that 99% of you would pick a Pioneer over a Panasonic if given a choice.It's your $ so buy what you wish.Just don't make your dicision purely on black levels.After all, how many of us have been to an actual studio to see a monitor used by professionals to see how blacks are really supposed to be.Everyone looks at Avia and Video Essentials like they are the bible.Lucasfilm has been around alot longer than either one of them, so how about a little respect for THX.

[lghaze42]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

"apparently there is also flicker with the set in 24p mode which I would say is quite a serious negative personally"

Thanks for your input. I would also find the "flicker" a serious negative.

No flicker on my 800U.

[richard lichtenfelt]

Here is a head to head comparison between the Pio 6020, same as the 5020 but at 60" instead of 50",and Panny TH50PZ800u from a review by D-Nice (known by many at avsforums.com as a hdtv guru).
The whole review can be found at: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56

Performance
“My God! It’s full of stars” would be the slogan I’d use to summarize the 6020FDs performance.
Flanked to the left of a TH50PZ800u and below my Elite 1150HD, the 6020FD presented a picture that
neither could fully replicate. Throughout the entire comparison, the following words stayed in my mind:
smoooooth, clear, sophisticated, intoxicating.
Dark Room HD DVD and BD Performance
The 6020FD’s 0.001fL black level created an eerie void adjacent to the other PDPs. I’ve never
seen this much depth and shadow detail on a digital display. Watching Blackout destroy Soccent
Airbase on the HD DVD presentation of Transformers, the black level difference between the
6020FD and the 50PZ800u was not subtle, it was dramatic. Black levels on the 6020FD made the
PZ800u’s blacks (measured @ 0.008fL) look like a dark shade of gray. The top and bottom bars
literally disappeared into the 6020FD’s screen. In comparison, I could always make out the bars
on the 50PZ800u, but their luminance was subtle and much improved over previous Panasonic
generations. Colors during the movie just looked better on the 6020FD. Although the 50PZ800u
was fully calibrated to D65 and had better primary color plots, the 6020FD had a certain quality
the Panasonic just didn't quite have: a creamy smoothness to the image. And this feeling
remained seared into my sub‐conscious; even though the numbers say otherwise. Getting
within 1.5 feet of the 6020 and 50PZ800u, I could see an ever‐so slight level of noise on the
50PZ800u screen. Engaging the Video NR filter on the Panasonic removed the noise, but killed
some of the high frequency detail. The 6020s picture was void of any and all noise. Kudos goes
to Pioneer for their hardcoded NR filters being setup just right for HD content.
Switching to 2001 on BD, the 6020FD continued to create exceptionally dynamic images with
life‐like clarity, super sharp, and super smooth frames. The white ships on the star filled space
backdrop had much more pop compared to both the 1150HD and 50PZ800u. Black bars again
disappeared into the background of the 6020FDs panel, unlike the very, very slight luminance on
the 1150HD (measured @ 0.004fL). Compared to the 1150HD, the 6020 can go brighter when
the scene calls for it. For instance, the space station lobby scene with the red chairs looked
noticeably brighter on the 6020 compared to the 1150HD. For reference, both were calibrated
to roughly 39fL peak light output.
Watching Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End, the 6020 once again spanked the 1150HD in
overall brightness level. Watching the Black Pearl float in the white sands of Davy Jones’s
Locker, the sand was actually too bright on the 6020FD for my tastes. I actually had to engage
Power Save Mode 1 to keep the brightness at bay.

Here he discussed the better anti-reflectiveness and brightness of the Pio for daytime viewing:

Daytime Performance
The 6020FD really shines in low lighting environments. However, its daytime performance isn’t
anything to balk at. Pioneer’s AR coating kept reflections at bay and on par with my 1150HD.
The Panasonic 50PZ800u didn’t bold as well. Black levels remained inky, but I know that a
Samsung LCD would have provided “bezel blacks” due to its AR coating design. Never less, I
would not call the blacks on the 6020FD during the daytime (with lots of ambient light, I might
add) “grey”, “blue”, or any other color besides black. The 6020FD’s improved brightness was
most valuable during daytime viewing keeping the whites of snow peaked mountains and the
ice rinks on hockey games bright and glistening.

The conclusion of the review:

Conclusion
The 6020FDs introduction poised many challenges for Pioneer. Could Pioneer improve on a series that
has won more awards than I have fingers to count? Could Pioneer drop the minimum luminance level of
a PDP that to date, no other manufacturer has yet equaled or surpassed? Could Pioneer create a PDP
that expresses a voluptuous color pallet that is second to none? Is it possible? Overall, I would have to
say yes. The 6020FD will quench any potential owner’s thirst for unparallelled picture quality like no
other display I’ve encountered. Mouthwatering colors, mystifying black levels coupled with mindboggling
contrast dynamics. Unfortunately, the 6020FD is not without flaws: soft SD PQ performance,
paltry number of user picture controls….especially on a $5,500 TV, A/V picture mode performance
(minus Movie and Optimum mode) that you would expect on a Vizio, Olevia, or other cheap <censored>
display. However, the 6020FDs overall presentation in Movie mode is second to none. I’ll end this on a
Will Smith quote from Independence Day:
“I have GOT to get me one of these!!!!”

[Twitch9]

My thoughts on buying a new TV are, don't buy the best TV on the market get something will lots of options and good picture all around for the lower price, because as soon as you bring it home and hook it up there will be something newer and better on the market with a new features and higher resolution. When looking for your new TV, look for something that you will be happy with for 2-3 years, with the way technology is going your new TV will be out of date in that time and you will want to upgrade again. Just think of this, that TV you purchased for $5000 will be $2000 next year.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

I have narrowed my new TV down to either a:

Pioneer 5020

or

Panasonic TH-50PZ800U

They cost about the same around $2,000

Since this will be my first plasma, I don't know what I am looking for. Please give your thoughts on the above two.


Thanks

Check out the Hot Deals thread, Best Buy had some crazy deal going on the Elite version of the Pioneer...worth a quick look, anyhow.

[xneox]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

"apparently there is also flicker with the set in 24p mode which I would say is quite a serious negative personally"

Thanks for your input. I would also find the "flicker" a serious negative.

Originally Posted by lghaze42

No flicker on my 800U.

I see slight flicker, but in this mode my 800u really gives a true theater projector feel. In an otherwise dark room, I love it. That said, I'd also love a Pioneer hanging on the wall.

[brett_day]

as much as i love my panny i would go with the pioneer! Awesome tv's! yes the pioneer panels will be supplied by panasonic going forward but thats not the only importnant thing. The other internal components such as video processor make a huge difference and in that respect the pioneer is better than the panny

[Musashi]

JimShaw: Do you play any video games? More specifically, old games PS2 and before? Having studied plasmas a bit lately myself, I know a few things depend on your intended uses.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Musashi

JimShaw: Do you play any video games? More specifically, old games PS2 and before? Having studied plasmas a bit lately myself, I know a few things depend on your intended uses.

TV and movies only. From all I have read on this thread, I will probably end up with the Pioneer 5020. I was also thinking about the 111FD but was told by a forum member that the 5020's PQ is just as good as the 111FD which would save me about $700-$1000

[Devildog151]

I spent about six months comparing the too. I was lucky enough to view both in a dim setting and given free run with the remotes and different HD and SD sources. After spending hours in these stores. I realized that the 5020 is just better than the 800u. It just had a crisper more three dimensional image on HD sources and no video noise. On the 800u when I watched Pirates on Blu-ray there was this distinct fuzzyness to the pixels which I'm guessing was either video noise or dithering. But, when I turned on the noise reduction in the menu it was still there and this was at about five feet. On the 5020 I couldn't see any when watching Transformers on Blu at about three feet. Which led me to believe the 5020 has a much better video processor. All in all SD looked better which finally sealed the deal and the deeper blacks was just icing on the cake.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Devildog151

I spent about six months comparing the too. I was lucky enough to view both in a dim setting and given free run with the remotes and different HD and SD sources. After spending hours in these stores. I realized that the 5020 is just better than the 800u. It just had a crisper more three dimensional image on HD sources and no video noise. On the 800u when I watched Pirates on Blu-ray there was this distinct fuzzyness to the pixels which I'm guessing was either video noise or dithering. But, when I turned on the noise reduction in the menu it was still there and this was at about five feet. On the 5020 I couldn't see any when watching Transformers on Blu at about three feet. Which led me to believe the 5020 has a much better video processor. All in all SD looked better which finally sealed the deal and the deeper blacks was just icing on the cake.

Great info. that helps make my decision


Thanks

[joegs300]

Everyone loves the Panasonic.. even me. I love my Panasonic set but I think vs. the Pioneer.. there's only one choice, the Pioneer.