Moire Patterns and Dark Knight

[stahl7639]

Alright, this may be a “noob” question/complaint, but I cannot stop thinking about it. I recently purchased a new TV, a Samsung LN40A650, and I love it. Last night, I plopped The Dark Knight into the PS3 and started watching it. I was immediately disappointed when the opening IMAX scene began because all I could notice was the horrid moiré patterns on the buildings. I noticed these during some of the other IMAX scenes in the movie as well. Now, my question is what is causing these patterns on my TV? Could it be my HDMI cable, I have a Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable that I bought in 2007, so maybe it is not 1.3a? Could it be a setting is not turned on on my TV? Any information would be greatly appreciated?

[STARSCREAM]

You can relax as its not your cable or tv. That's just how the IMAX scenes are on Dark Knight. Many others have noticed it and I see it too.

[ajmrowland]

Moire patterns? Is that a flaw with the footage?

[jcarys]

Have you checked your sharpness and contrast settings? Either of them too high could be enhancing what's already on the disc.

I don't know if there's a generic setting for sharpness for Bluray, but for DVD the advice was typically to turn it all the way to 0.

I know that on my set I saw very little moire, but obviously others mileage has clearly varied.

[Kris Deering]

Actually, this is probably something wrong with your TV. There are no moire patterns in the encoding of this disc. Moire in high detail is a result of improper de-interlacing or scaling. If your PS3 is outputting 1080p24 and you are still seeing this then your display is doing some scaling to the signal internally and creating essentially interference patterns. This is not uncommon because many displays have internal scaling turned on for their video processing features and it is important to turn them off during your setup.

I promise you anyone telling you this is an artifact of the disc is not telling you the truth.

[robertc88]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Actually, this is probably something wrong with your TV. There are no moire patterns in the encoding of this disc. Moire in high detail is a result of improper de-interlacing or scaling. If your PS3 is outputting 1080p24 and you are still seeing this then your display is doing some scaling to the signal internally and creating essentially interference patterns. This is not uncommon because many displays have internal scaling turned on for their video processing features and it is important to turn them off during your setup.

I promise you anyone telling you this is an artifact of the disc is not telling you the truth.

I have a Panny plasma display and really don't know where to check for internal scaling for video processing and the current setting.

What I can tell you though is there are a decent about of posts in the TDK mega thread that have brought up the issue. I bet if we did a poll regarding the scene with the buildings, there would be more seeing it than not.

[DavePS3]

I'm running 1080i on a CRT (Loewe) and haven't seen any problems.

[IamNhobdy]

I'm running a PS3 via HDMI to my Sony KDL32XBR6 @1080/24p and I haven't seen the patterns, so I'm inclined to agree with Kris Deering.

[Hedchekr]

I'm running a PS3 via HDMI to my Sony KDL52XBR4 @1080/24p and I haven't seen the patterns, so I'm inclined to agree with Kris Deering also.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by robertc88

I have a Panny plasma display and really don't know where to check for internal scaling for video processing and the current setting.

What I can tell you though is there are a decent about of posts in the TDK mega thread that have brought up the issue. I bet if we did a poll regarding the scene with the buildings, there would be more seeing it than not.

Unfortunately that is a problem with forums. Just because there are a lot of people saying something doesn't mean it is true. More often than not I go to people's home theaters and things are not set up properly. There are many instances where it is unavoidable. Display manufacturers are prone to configuring their displays out of the box in nearly the worse possible configuration you can get, so it is easy to have things on that shouldn't be.

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by ajmrowland

Moire patterns? Is that a flaw with the footage?

What is this? Moire patterns?

[robertc88]

Well I certainly feel if folks do see this then they should work towards eliminating it. I think many are just dismissing it since many said this is the way it should be. I shouldn't have taken that for granted. I assume now in my case that I certainly am not getting the best possible picture quality then. Maybe I'll try HDMI connection for video instead of component.

[kinglm]

Blu-ray players, the displays, their capabilities and settings are the variabales among each of our HT setups - it's not surprising when I read variations in experience when using the same movie. It seems folks forget this. I never saw any issues when I watched the Dark Night with my Pioneer BDP-51FD and Kuro.

[stahl7639]

Originally Posted by cvm

What is this? Moire patterns?

Here is an example of a moire pattern.




I see this on the far left building during the opening scene of the dark knight, as well as some of the other IMAX scenes with a pan of a skyline.

I purchased a new HDMI cable becasue I think it might be due to the fact that my cable is old, its the Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable.
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3978
I don't think it is 1.3a. I'll see if that solves the problem.

[ScarredLungs]

oh okay... I never seen it on my copy, but who knows. I'll check for the heck of it and see if it there next time i watch it

[ryoohki]

Download the AVSHD Test Disc, burn it on a DVDR, Go into the Basic Option and check the last pattern, Sharpness. If you see stars (moire) in the pattern, reduce Sharpness of you're display until all lines are perfect

This is THE BEST Sharpness setting pattern i've ever seen myself..

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by ryoohki

Download the AVSHD Test Disc, burn it on a DVDR, Go into the Basic Option and check the last pattern, Sharpness. If you see stars (moire) in the pattern, reduce Sharpness of you're display until all lines are perfect

This is THE BEST Sharpness setting pattern i've ever seen myself..

Sharpness rarely has an affect on moire or scaling issues. Setting sharpness correctly eliminates false ringing caused by raising the digital or analog signal.

Moire is a common interference pattern but there are many out there. Having some kind of scaling engaged will typically cause issues with high detail (like the sides of buildings with lots of windows). Since the poster here talks about using a component video output of his Blu-ray player you also have to take into account the de-interlacing quality of the display since component is limited to 1080i, which then needs to be converted to 1080p. The quality of de-interlacing from display to display varies DRAMATICALLY, and can introduce moire type artifacts as well. A great example of this is the high resolution race track sequence we use for our tests at Home Theater. If a player can do proper de-interlacing the bleechers in this sequence look completely clean and detailed. If it can't you will see obvious interference in the bleachers that most would describe as moire.

Another great example of a similar complaint is the staircase sequence from Mission Impossible 3. There are plenty of displays and players that show moire in this sequence do to improper video processing.

[blu-raay]

Originally Posted by cvm

What is this? Moire patterns?

"Is this the right word, alcoves? Do you say this word, alcoves?" cvm's post reminded me of 'in bruge.'

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by stahl7639

Here is an example of a moire pattern.




I see this on the far left building during the opening scene of the dark knight, as well as some of the other IMAX scenes with a pan of a skyline.

I purchased a new HDMI cable becasue I think it might be due to the fact that my cable is old, its the Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable.
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3978
I don't think it is 1.3a. I'll see if that solves the problem.

There is A LOT of misinformation about HDMI cables out there. Sometimes your "old" one is no worse than the new one that is being marketed under some new title. Consumers are being taken left and right with the false advertising claims associated with HDMI cables.

You'll fine a great article about HDMI cables and the differences HERE. I would also recommend this brand of cables to anyone who wants top performance at very affordable prices. But even if you're not in the market for cables, this is a great reference to increase consumer awareness of what HDMI is all about.

[Kris Deering]

Most people don't realize that moire is a very natural occurrence in real life. Taking two objects that have lines and putting them in line makes this occur. You'll typically see this with fences that overlap or possibly screen doors behind a blind.