Standards & Compatibility-Not Even Close - Blu-ray Forum

BroadcastGuy · 05-29-2007, 09:15 PM

After the advertising hype for the new Pirates Blu-Ray DVD’s, I figured why not, I like great video/audio quality, and the hype and the reviews certainly assured that. Neither Pirates disc would play in my new Samsung BDP1200. Thinking there must be a problem with the discs, checked them with my Sony AR290 Blu-Ray notebook, no go either. Then I dug into it. Wow, everyone was having the same problems. Answer? Update the firmware. Samsung update took just short of an hour, and resulted in successful playing of the Pirates discs. However, all the updates in the world would not fix the problem on the Sony laptop. So then I checked the Casino Royale Blu-Ray disc…that was intermittent at best on the Sony laptop. What if I was not technical savvy? What if I was joe consumer that didn’t know an Ethernet connection to update firmware from a dish washer?

People talk about standards and compatibility… come on, Casino Royale was produced by Sony, there is Sony product placement everywhere in the movie, and the Blu-Ray disc is by Sony, yet it won’t play on a Sony product (AR290 laptop)! It won't even work in the same family!

Putting aside all the other issues at hand, if there isn’t basic compatibility, and it remains to be pot-luck even whether a DVD you buy will actually work, then the consumers not only lose, but have already lost.

Samsung LN-T5265F 52” 1080p
Samsung LN-T4065F 40” 1080p
Sharp LC32D62U 32” 1080p
Samsung BD-P1200 Blu-Ray Player
Sony KDL40XBR3 40” 1080p
Sony AR290 Vaio Blu-Ray Notebook
Pioneer THX
Onky 7.1

dakota81 · 05-29-2007, 09:22 PM

It is likely the Sony laptop does not have the processing power to decode either Pirates movies. It's not a fault of the movie or of the format. If I put a blu-ray drive in my desktop computer, I would not be able to play Casino Royale or Pirates either. I'd have to upgrade my video card to one with hardware decoding for both VC-1 and AVC.

It's the same as in the beginning of dvds, computers were not powerful enough to process them through their generic cpus, so you had specific decoder chips on pci cards that were produced so that dvd decoding was possible.

theknub · 05-29-2007, 10:49 PM

the other thing (especially with a laptop) is all the background programs and what not running. check to verify what could be running and eating up ur compute cycles

dakota81 · 05-29-2007, 11:11 PM

Some reading material:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2886
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2977

Conclusion: it's not background programs that are at issue, it's the power of the laptop hardware.

reiella · 05-29-2007, 11:11 PM

It is a serious issue. Thankfully, it's one that's a bit more minimized now than from the previous era.

Where if you have a DVD that wouldn't play on your 1g [or 2g] dvd player, you were pretty much out of luck in regards to actually getting a firmware update to fix it. Now at least the option is more readily available.

It isn't optimal. Especially when you consider that not every home setup is going to have the option of running some RJ to the bd-rom to update it.

It is still a bad thing, but it's also something that's going to be unavoidable if you insist on being on the cutting edge of any technology.

[ add / edit ]
Nice articles there Dakota. NVidia's design decisions regarding PureVideo are proving rather interesting [and pointed].

BroadcastGuy · 05-30-2007, 11:35 AM

The point was the effect on the end user, or more specifically, the typical average Joe that impulse buys a Blu-Ray Disc at the corner store, invites his friends over to watch it, and it won't work. Only to find out, because he's not technical, that he has to have a service person come in, or uninstall and take his equipment in, to update the firmware...at his expense!

When VHS, Beta, etc. came out, mfgr's and media providers had to license the logo, and to do that their products had to be tested to be fully compatible with the given format, to absolutely assure end user satisfaction. That is what is lacking.

Re the laptop issue, not a resource problem or background pgm issue, and again, the issue is that Sony represented (and still represents) their higest end laptop "the premier Blu-ray Disc® enabled PC.", yet it simply won't play random Blu-Ray discs. The ironic twist is the Casino Royale problem, their own production, their own disc, their format!

The whole point would be moot if there was simply a notice on any suspect DVD's, and disclaimers on ads, etc. that they may not play on your equipment. Likewise on hardware claims. Then the buyer knows the risks. Without that, the Blu-Ray logo on the box means nothing!

reiella · 05-31-2007, 02:12 AM

And how effective are the notices about Dual-layered DVDs?

The ones where they just say 'may experience a slight pause', instead of 'first generation players may not be able to playback this disc at all'.

It's not something unique, new, or even in preponderance with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. And in fact, the situation is better now since the means to resolve the firmware are a bit more accessible than before.

Regarding the problems with your laptop, I'd imagine you'd be better suited asking tech support, no? Since it's either an issue of the notebook not having enough power which you contest, or a technical issue that can be resolved through firmware updates or software bugfixes.

dialog_gvf · 05-31-2007, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadcastGuy

The point was the effect on the end user, or more specifically, the typical average Joe that impulse buys a Blu-Ray Disc at the corner store, invites his friends over to watch it, and it won't work. Only to find out, because he's not technical, that he has to have a service person come in, or uninstall and take his equipment in, to update the firmware...at his expense!

Children of Men and several other HD DVD didn't play on Xbox 360's. I believe one of The Matrix is having issues too.

This isn't a Blu-ray issue. It's an early adopter one. This is totally normal for the first few years of a new format. But, it seems the war has pushed the pricing so low that people are jumping in that are totally ill prepared to be an early adopter.

What kind of average Joe has a Samsung P1200 and a Sony Blu-ray equipped laptop?

Gary

05-29-2007, 09:15 PM	#1
BroadcastGuy Junior Member Member since:May 2007	Standards & Compatibility-Not Even Close After the advertising hype for the new Pirates Blu-Ray DVD’s, I figured why not, I like great video/audio quality, and the hype and the reviews certainly assured that. Neither Pirates disc would play in my new Samsung BDP1200. Thinking there must be a problem with the discs, checked them with my Sony AR290 Blu-Ray notebook, no go either. Then I dug into it. Wow, everyone was having the same problems. Answer? Update the firmware. Samsung update took just short of an hour, and resulted in successful playing of the Pirates discs. However, all the updates in the world would not fix the problem on the Sony laptop. So then I checked the Casino Royale Blu-Ray disc…that was intermittent at best on the Sony laptop. What if I was not technical savvy? What if I was joe consumer that didn’t know an Ethernet connection to update firmware from a dish washer? People talk about standards and compatibility… come on, Casino Royale was produced by Sony, there is Sony product placement everywhere in the movie, and the Blu-Ray disc is by Sony, yet it won’t play on a Sony product (AR290 laptop)! It won't even work in the same family! Putting aside all the other issues at hand, if there isn’t basic compatibility, and it remains to be pot-luck even whether a DVD you buy will actually work, then the consumers not only lose, but have already lost. Samsung LN-T5265F 52” 1080p Samsung LN-T4065F 40” 1080p Sharp LC32D62U 32” 1080p Samsung BD-P1200 Blu-Ray Player Sony KDL40XBR3 40” 1080p Sony AR290 Vaio Blu-Ray Notebook Pioneer THX Onky 7.1

05-29-2007, 11:11 PM	#4
dakota81 Expert Member Member since:Apr 2007	Some reading material: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2886 http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2977 Conclusion: it's not background programs that are at issue, it's the power of the laptop hardware. Last edited by dakota81; 05-29-2007 at 11:15 PM.

05-29-2007, 11:11 PM	#5
reiella Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2006 Home Theater Gallery:1 Blu-ray collection:237 DVD collection:1	It is a serious issue. Thankfully, it's one that's a bit more minimized now than from the previous era. Where if you have a DVD that wouldn't play on your 1g [or 2g] dvd player, you were pretty much out of luck in regards to actually getting a firmware update to fix it. Now at least the option is more readily available. It isn't optimal. Especially when you consider that not every home setup is going to have the option of running some RJ to the bd-rom to update it. It is still a bad thing, but it's also something that's going to be unavoidable if you insist on being on the cutting edge of any technology. [ add / edit ] Nice articles there Dakota. NVidia's design decisions regarding PureVideo are proving rather interesting [and pointed]. Last edited by reiella; 05-29-2007 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Added comment

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
Samsung BD2550 & Denon AVR 3808 compatibility	Blu-ray Players and Recorders	mvaziri	2	03-07-2009 03:24 PM
Region Question about Standards	Blu-ray Movies - North America	damnspynovels	2	01-01-2009 04:24 PM
[Please Help!] About Blu-ray 3D Standards activity & "Hannah Montana" 3D technology	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	oh.danbi	1	06-09-2008 09:14 PM
Compatibility issues with HDMI cables, Home Theater Receiver & Blu Ray	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	Audio5oh	20	12-17-2007 03:58 PM

05-29-2007, 09:22 PM	#2
dakota81 Expert Member Member since:Apr 2007	It is likely the Sony laptop does not have the processing power to decode either Pirates movies. It's not a fault of the movie or of the format. If I put a blu-ray drive in my desktop computer, I would not be able to play Casino Royale or Pirates either. I'd have to upgrade my video card to one with hardware decoding for both VC-1 and AVC. It's the same as in the beginning of dvds, computers were not powerful enough to process them through their generic cpus, so you had specific decoder chips on pci cards that were produced so that dvd decoding was possible.

05-29-2007, 10:49 PM	#3
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	the other thing (especially with a laptop) is all the background programs and what not running. check to verify what could be running and eating up ur compute cycles

05-30-2007, 11:35 AM	#6
BroadcastGuy Junior Member Member since:May 2007	The point was the effect on the end user, or more specifically, the typical average Joe that impulse buys a Blu-Ray Disc at the corner store, invites his friends over to watch it, and it won't work. Only to find out, because he's not technical, that he has to have a service person come in, or uninstall and take his equipment in, to update the firmware...at his expense! When VHS, Beta, etc. came out, mfgr's and media providers had to license the logo, and to do that their products had to be tested to be fully compatible with the given format, to absolutely assure end user satisfaction. That is what is lacking. Re the laptop issue, not a resource problem or background pgm issue, and again, the issue is that Sony represented (and still represents) their higest end laptop "the premier Blu-ray Disc® enabled PC.", yet it simply won't play random Blu-Ray discs. The ironic twist is the Casino Royale problem, their own production, their own disc, their format! The whole point would be moot if there was simply a notice on any suspect DVD's, and disclaimers on ads, etc. that they may not play on your equipment. Likewise on hardware claims. Then the buyer knows the risks. Without that, the Blu-Ray logo on the box means nothing!

05-31-2007, 02:12 AM	#7
reiella Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2006 Home Theater Gallery:1 Blu-ray collection:237 DVD collection:1	And how effective are the notices about Dual-layered DVDs? The ones where they just say 'may experience a slight pause', instead of 'first generation players may not be able to playback this disc at all'. It's not something unique, new, or even in preponderance with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. And in fact, the situation is better now since the means to resolve the firmware are a bit more accessible than before. Regarding the problems with your laptop, I'd imagine you'd be better suited asking tech support, no? Since it's either an issue of the notebook not having enough power which you contest, or a technical issue that can be resolved through firmware updates or software bugfixes.

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals