Large Format/"Premium" Theaters (IMAX 15/70, Digital IMAX, XD, ETX, RPX, etc.)

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Zhorik

Every cinema room is different (as are every mixing rooms. There are SMPTE papers showing this), so blaming Dolby Atmos for the bad reproduction (echo, muddy front sound-stage etc.) experienced is unkind to the technology. How did the BD mix (for Apes) compare with what you experienced in that room?

IMAX based on my experience boosts the mids and highs slightly, thereby making dialogue clearer. It would sure be interesting to see freq curves of IMAX rooms.

Like I said, I don't feel I have an accurate gauge on Atmos' ability. I've otherwise seen Apes in a standard theater with Klipsch speakers, and a 7.1 home theater with Klipsch and NXG speakers. Both had vastly superior audio quality than my Atmos experience. I don't blame Atmos though, I blame the bad room, sub-par equipment, and low volume for how terrible Apes sounded at the Empirical. That's sort of like a half point that I think I've made before in this thread, but Atmos being a placement standard and not an equipment standard is sort of absurd to me. For the most part, if you go to an IMAX you know what you're getting since all the theaters are using the same speakers (outside of 70 auditoriums), whereas with Atmos the range of quality could be anything. A Klipsch Atmos experience won't be the same as a Meyer Atmos experience, and I think that makes a direct comparison to IMAX sort of silly.

Maybe they do this on some level, but I think a rigorous speaker standard should be part of the Atmos certification. ie: They won't let a room that seats 400 use speakers/subs that are designed for a room that seats 200 to save a couple bucks.

[jscoggins]

What Spike said. IMAX is both a hardware and software standard. Atmos, Dolby Cinema, Auro, DTS:X, etc are all software standards that can be deployed on any number of hardware platforms. That is simply too much variance to be consistently reliable.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

My first experience with Atmos was Days of Future Past and wasn't impressed (this is also only title I've seen theatrically in another format, Dolby 7.1 in that case and basically didn't notice any difference). Though I did think the Atmos mixes on Jersey Boys and Into the Storm were nice, Mockingjay Pt. 1 and Home didn't really impress me but there were a couple parts were I could notice differences from what you get in a regular theater.

Still, while I think I would need to see the same film in both formats to truly compare, none of those Atmos mixes matches the top tier IMAX mixes IMO.

Also I saw Dawn of the Apes in Dolby 7.1 and found the sound mix solid there, and even without Atmos the rain effects were fairly immersive.

huh? whaaat? bahahaha... IMAX 5.0 sounding better than Atmos, or 7.1 what weed are you smoking?

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

huh? whaaat? bahahaha... IMAX 5.0 sounding better than Atmos, or 7.1 what weed are you smoking?

It's a 6.1 system, but whatever. The doubled up center channels definitely improve the "power" and "heft" of all the vital parts of the mix such as dialogue and most action, which is probably why it sounds more "powerful" than an Atmos system with twice the wattage.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

It's a 6.1 system, but whatever. The doubled up center channels definitely improve the "power" and "heft" of all the vital parts of the mix such as dialogue and most action, which is probably why it sounds more "powerful" than an Atmos system with twice the wattage.

hardly anything is actually mixed with the center height channel in mind. If it's a 15/70 documentary film, more likely it is ... but many of the new IMAX-lite screens are only left, center. right. left and right surround + subs

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

hardly anything is actually mixed with the center height channel in mind. If it's a 15/70 documentary film, more likely it is ... but many of the new IMAX-lite screens are only left, center. right. left and right surround + subs

Yep. And the subs aren't a channel on its own.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

hardly anything is actually mixed with the center height channel in mind. If it's a 15/70 documentary film, more likely it is ... but many of the new IMAX-lite screens are only left, center. right. left and right surround + subs

Hm? It's painfully apparent when a converted IMAX plays a 5.1, standard DCP trailer that it isn't using the extra center channel. The volume and "power" of the sound drops considerably. Whether or not that extra center is being utilized to it's potential isn't my point, but it doubling up the "power" of the dialogue and action by a considerable degree either way.

[Zhorik]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Hm? It's painfully apparent when a converted IMAX plays a 5.1, standard DCP trailer that it isn't using the extra center channel. The volume and "power" of the sound drops considerably. Whether or not that extra center is being utilized to it's potential isn't my point, but it doubling up the "power" of the dialogue and action by a considerable degree either way.

Are you sure those trailers aren't just being played at a lower level, in order to wow the audience when the feature starts (i.e the same principle behind common height screens which open up for scope features).

[BozQ]

I read somewhere, that the Top Centre channel is used as a means to position some precision audio.

A wee little bit like Dolby Atmos, but with six satellite channels, and on a 2 dimensional plane.

[Zhorik]

Originally Posted by BozQ

I read somewhere, that the Top Centre channel is used as a means to position some precision audio.

A wee little bit like Dolby Atmos, but with six satellite channels, and on a 2 dimensional plane.

The top cente is used for movies mixed in IMAX 12 channel.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Zhorik

Are you sure those trailers aren't just being played at a lower level, in order to wow the audience when the feature starts (i.e the same principle behind common height screens which open up for scope features).

It wouldn't make sense if they were. The regular trailers are randomly mixed in with the IMAX trailers; it's not like they play a bunch of 5.1 DCP trailers that can't use that extra projector and then go "wow guys, look how much brighter these IMAX mastered trailers are!". I've even seen a theater randomly use a standard DCP of a future IMAX release a couple times.

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by Zhorik

The top cente is used for movies mixed in IMAX 12 channel.

No no no. The Top Centre channel has been there long before the IMAX Laser 12.0 surround started.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

My first experience with Atmos was Days of Future Past and wasn't impressed (this is also only title I've seen theatrically in another format, Dolby 7.1 in that case and basically didn't notice any difference). Though I did think the Atmos mixes on Jersey Boys and Into the Storm were nice, Mockingjay Pt. 1 and Home didn't really impress me but there were a couple parts were I could notice differences from what you get in a regular theater.

Still, while I think I would need to see the same film in both formats to truly compare, none of those Atmos mixes matches the top tier IMAX mixes IMO.

Also I saw Dawn of the Apes in Dolby 7.1 and found the sound mix solid there, and even without Atmos the rain effects were fairly immersive.

I am not a big fan of Dolby Atmos. I really don't think the object based thing is really all that special. The new IMAX sound system at the theatre near me has overheads and I don't think it all that good either. I saw San Andreas in Atmos and I could barely hear the difference.

I personally like the IMAX standard set up as my favourite experience.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

huh? whaaat? bahahaha... IMAX 5.0 sounding better than Atmos, or 7.1 what weed are you smoking?

I think I would agree with the other post you bolded. I also find the top IMAX mixes superior.

[Dubstar]

I had to see/hear 'Transformers 4' twice (lord help me) to just to see the IMAX shot scenes and the Atmos mix on the non-IMAX presentation - each had their pro's and cons. IMAX-Digital on the AMC Tysons's screen looked great since the film had the three different aspect ratios throughout the entire movie - the sound though was an ear bleeder - way too loud and subtlety was not a priority - it was a mishmosh assaultive experience that turned me off of the IMAX experience. ['Guardians of the Galaxy' (IMAX) on the other hand was the highlight of last year]. The Dolby Atmos of 'Transformers 4' was and is the pinnacle of how soundmixers can and should implement the ceiling speakers - notably at the end where a whole bunch of objects and whooshed up into the air and subsequently dropped back down to the ground - that was aurally spectacular.

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

I think I would agree with the other post you bolded. I also find the top IMAX mixes superior.

so pinpointing of sound to the sides and directly behind you is not something that grabs you? Atmos and 7.1 do this and yet 5.0 IMAX sound scaping is better?? you lost me... phantom imaging does work with with 5.0 systems, but not as effectively with the 4 channel surrounds.

maybe I'm just one attune to mixes and sound in general, but I do have to admit there the gamut of how soundmixers can mix and convey dimensionality varies from film to film - some work, some don't

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

I am not a big fan of Dolby Atmos. I really don't think the object based thing is really all that special. The new IMAX sound system at the theatre near me has overheads and I don't think it all that good either. I saw San Andreas in Atmos and I could barely hear the difference.

I personally like the IMAX standard set up as my favourite experience.

the 12-channel discrete mix I heard of 'San Andreas' - was a juggernaut and real visceral of a mix in my opinion.

what IMAX theater is this?

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

I had to see/hear 'Transformers 4' twice (lord help me) to just to see the IMAX shot scenes and the Atmos mix on the non-IMAX presentation - each had their pro's and cons. IMAX-Digital on the AMC Tysons's screen looked great since the film had the three different aspect ratios throughout the entire movie - the sound though was an ear bleeder - way too loud and subtlety was not a priority - it was a mishmosh assaultive experience that turned me off of the IMAX experience. ['Guardians of the Galaxy' (IMAX) on the other hand was the highlight of last year]. The Dolby Atmos of 'Transformers 4' was and is the pinnacle of how soundmixers can and should implement the ceiling speakers - notably at the end where a whole bunch of objects and whooshed up into the air and subsequently dropped back down to the ground - that was aurally spectacular.



so pinpointing of sound to the sides and directly behind you is not something that grabs you? Atmos and 7.1 do this and yet 5.0 IMAX sound scaping is better?? you lost me... phantom imaging does work with with 5.0 systems, but not as effectively with the 4 channel surrounds.

maybe I'm just one attune to mixes and sound in general, but I do have to admit there the gamut of how soundmixers can mix and convey dimensionality varies from film to film - some work, some don't



the 12-channel discrete mix I heard of 'San Andreas' - was a juggernaut and real visceral of a mix in my opinion.

what IMAX theater is this?

The pinpoint of the rear sounds does not really appeal to me. I am more interested in the front three speakers and how they perform. Too much going on in the rear its distracting in my opinion. Overall I just like the loud and brash IMAX set up and IMAX makes it like a big event night.

The cinema I am referring to is the Scotiabank IMAX that has laser and a 12 channel set up.

[MrsMiniver]

Saw the 12 channel IMAX set up today with no screen in front, the set up is identical to the set up of a classic 15/70 location. IMAX will be using the 12 channel set ups in multiplex retrofits, I am not yet sure if the laser system will be used at the location I toured today.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

Saw the 12 channel IMAX set up today with no screen in front, the set up is identical to the set up of a classic 15/70 location. IMAX will be using the 12 channel set ups in multiplex retrofits, I am not yet sure if the laser system will be used at the location I toured today.

so you upgrade the audio system but not convert to laser?? that's lazy.

[Poya]

I e-mailed IMAX about the Universal Citywalk theater and they assured me that they will still keep the 70mm projector there.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

so you upgrade the audio system but not convert to laser?? that's lazy.

Well, I'm not sure. The screen will not be the 1.44 size so I'm still trying to figure it out. Will find out soon enough.