Large Format/"Premium" Theaters (IMAX 15/70, Digital IMAX, XD, ETX, RPX, etc.)

[Geoff D]

I just saw Dunkirk again on a 2K digital projection in fixed 2.20 aspect and I've got to say, in all honesty, I thought the colour timing was BETTER than the 15/70 version. Highlights didn't burn out as much, black levels had more depth and the colour was still beautifully rich and vivid. Certain interior shots on the Moonstone looked really poorly timed on the 15/70, struggling to balance the bright windows with the darker interiors, but they had much better balance here, and remember that discussion about how those shots of James D'Arcy walking down the beach looked really out of whack when intercut with the other shots of the men? They matched FAR more closely in the DCP, still not perfect from cut to cut but a hell of a lot better nonetheless.

And do people remember the discussions about how crappy the 5/65 footage looked in the 15/70 version? Well, in the DCP the two were virtually identical, I shit you not. Both sets of footage looked smooth, glossy and richly detailed, with the edge just going to certain 15/65 shots for their absolutely unassailable levels of sharpness. This regular DCP was created from the conformed 5-perf IP, containing optical 5-perf IP reductions of the IMAX 15/65 material and genuine 5-perf IP material derived directly from the 5/65 negative and it really did provide the best of both worlds with none of the jarring shittiness of the blown-up footage in the 15/70 print.

That stuff really did look atrocious in 15/70, not just for a big increase in grain (itself strange, considering this is all large format) but also the timing, it looked so much flatter and duller. IMO Nolan should've stuck to ingesting the non-IMAX stuff digitally and recording out to 15-perf just like he did with his previous 35mm anamorphic footage, as the optical blow-up of the 5-perf material did it no favours whatsoever. This DCP was also spotlessly clean, unlike Interstellar's digital master, but they kept in a certain amount of density flutter so it still had something of a film-like feel to it.

I have to say, if we were to get this version released in the home on 4K and HD then there would be very few complaints, locked aspect ratio aside.

[xbs2034]

I've seen them do splits between two films, but Lincoln Square is doing something I've not seen before with a multiplex IMAX and screen three different films this weekend.

They are doing one daily showing of Inhumans and Dunkirk (their first time playing it in IMAX Laser), and three showings of It. Glad to see Dunkirk back in IMAX, hope some other theaters are doing that as well.

[CelluloidPal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I just saw Dunkirk again on a 2K digital projection in fixed 2.20 aspect and I've got to say, in all honesty, I thought the colour timing was BETTER than the 15/70 version. Highlights didn't burn out as much, black levels had more depth and the colour was still beautifully rich and vivid. Certain interior shots on the Moonstone looked really poorly timed on the 15/70, struggling to balance the bright windows with the darker interiors, but they had much better balance here, and remember that discussion about how those shots of James D'Arcy walking down the beach looked really out of whack when intercut with the other shots of the men? They matched FAR more closely in the DCP, still not perfect from cut to cut but a hell of a lot better nonetheless.

And do people remember the discussions about how crappy the 5/65 footage looked in the 15/70 version? Well, in the DCP the two were virtually identical, I shit you not. Both sets of footage looked smooth, glossy and richly detailed, with the edge just going to certain 15/65 shots for their absolutely unassailable levels of sharpness. This regular DCP was created from the conformed 5-perf IP, containing optical 5-perf IP reductions of the IMAX 15/65 material and genuine 5-perf IP material derived directly from the 5/65 negative and it really did provide the best of both worlds with none of the jarring shittiness of the blown-up footage in the 15/70 print.

That stuff really did look atrocious in 15/70, not just for a big increase in grain (itself strange, considering this is all large format) but also the timing, it looked so much flatter and duller. IMO Nolan should've stuck to ingesting the non-IMAX stuff digitally and recording out to 15-perf just like he did with his previous 35mm anamorphic footage, as the optical blow-up of the 5-perf material did it no favours whatsoever. This DCP was also spotlessly clean, unlike Interstellar's digital master, but they kept in a certain amount of density flutter so it still had something of a film-like feel to it.

I have to say, if we were to get this version released in the home on 4K and HD then there would be very few complaints, locked aspect ratio aside.

This is very interesting. I saw this in IMAX Laser and I saw the difference between the two. I may check this out since it's now in 2K digital to see for myself.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by CelluloidPal

This is very interesting. I saw this in IMAX Laser and I saw the difference between the two. I may check this out since it's now in 2K digital to see for myself.

the notice between the 5perf and 15perf footage in laser was yes, VERY noticeable. In 5perf that intermixing of the two elements were graded in a more consistent manner.

[singhcr]

Huh. I never expected you to report such a thing, Geoff. Very interesting. Are you saying the color was balanced better overall within the reduced color space of the DCP/projector? Considering Nolan worked with his DP on the answer prints (and I'm sure one or both of them approved the various DCPs for 2K/2K IMAX/4K/4K IMAX), it's very surprising to hear that the DCP was timed better. Did this apply only to the 5/65 footage, or did you find that the timing was improved even on the genuine 15/70 footage? Thanks for the detailed comparison!

The only 2K digital footage of Dunkirk that I have seen were the trailers, and I thought they were very flat with poor contrast and color compared to what I saw in 15/70. Do you know what digital projectors were being used in your theater? Mine was the standard Sony 4K. I wonder if the trailer DCPs were graded the same as the final movie was, but based on what I've seen when comparing trailer footage to movie footage in older films, I would think not.

This should make for a very good 4KBD.

[GLaDOS]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I just saw Dunkirk again on a 2K digital projection in fixed 2.20 aspect and I've got to say, in all honesty, I thought the colour timing was BETTER than the 15/70 version. Highlights didn't burn out as much, black levels had more depth and the colour was still beautifully rich and vivid. Certain interior shots on the Moonstone looked really poorly timed on the 15/70, struggling to balance the bright windows with the darker interiors, but they had much better balance here, and remember that discussion about how those shots of James D'Arcy walking down the beach looked really out of whack when intercut with the other shots of the men? They matched FAR more closely in the DCP, still not perfect from cut to cut but a hell of a lot better nonetheless.

And do people remember the discussions about how crappy the 5/65 footage looked in the 15/70 version? Well, in the DCP the two were virtually identical, I shit you not. Both sets of footage looked smooth, glossy and richly detailed, with the edge just going to certain 15/65 shots for their absolutely unassailable levels of sharpness. This regular DCP was created from the conformed 5-perf IP, containing optical 5-perf IP reductions of the IMAX 15/65 material and genuine 5-perf IP material derived directly from the 5/65 negative and it really did provide the best of both worlds with none of the jarring shittiness of the blown-up footage in the 15/70 print.

That stuff really did look atrocious in 15/70, not just for a big increase in grain (itself strange, considering this is all large format) but also the timing, it looked so much flatter and duller. IMO Nolan should've stuck to ingesting the non-IMAX stuff digitally and recording out to 15-perf just like he did with his previous 35mm anamorphic footage, as the optical blow-up of the 5-perf material did it no favours whatsoever. This DCP was also spotlessly clean, unlike Interstellar's digital master, but they kept in a certain amount of density flutter so it still had something of a film-like feel to it.

I have to say, if we were to get this version released in the home on 4K and HD then there would be very few complaints, locked aspect ratio aside.

I noticed that the 5/65 shots blended a bit better on my IMAX Xenon showing. The detail in 5/65 held up quite well on DCP than it did with 15/70 (which I did notice a noticeable amount of grain on that showing), and the color grading was for the most part well-balanced.

I so can't wait to try out the 4K Blu-ray when it comes out.

[CelluloidPal]

Looks like the IMAX theater at the National History Museum is going out with a bang.
They will run Jurassic Park 3D with a 15/70 print on September 24th.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by CelluloidPal

Looks like the IMAX theater at the National History Museum is going out with a bang.
They will run Jurassic Park 3D with a 15/70 print on September 24th.

and Interstellar on the 30th.

[fontcow]

Chicago's only 15/70 and 4k laser IMAX with an 85’ x 62’ screen at Navy Pier finally reopened today under AMC ownership after being closed for renovations for nearly a year. Too bad they can't get a late engagement of Dunkirk in IMAX 70mm. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to at least checking out a non-IMAX film to see what all the hub-bub is about with those 4k laser projectors.

[singhcr]

Awesome! I wish my 15/70 theater had a laser setup. On such a large screen the 2K system just looks like mush.

[GLaDOS]

Originally Posted by CelluloidPal

Looks like the IMAX theater at the National History Museum is going out with a bang.
They will run Jurassic Park 3D with a 15/70 print on September 24th.

Originally Posted by Dubstar

and Interstellar on the 30th.

[GLaDOS]

In other news, Thor Ragnarok will be specially formatted for IMAX (1.90:1 aspect ratio throughout), as expected.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Huh. I never expected you to report such a thing, Geoff. Very interesting. Are you saying the color was balanced better overall within the reduced color space of the DCP/projector? Considering Nolan worked with his DP on the answer prints (and I'm sure one or both of them approved the various DCPs for 2K/2K IMAX/4K/4K IMAX), it's very surprising to hear that the DCP was timed better. Did this apply only to the 5/65 footage, or did you find that the timing was improved even on the genuine 15/70 footage? Thanks for the detailed comparison!

The only 2K digital footage of Dunkirk that I have seen were the trailers, and I thought they were very flat with poor contrast and color compared to what I saw in 15/70. Do you know what digital projectors were being used in your theater? Mine was the standard Sony 4K. I wonder if the trailer DCPs were graded the same as the final movie was, but based on what I've seen when comparing trailer footage to movie footage in older films, I would think not.

This should make for a very good 4KBD.

The 15/70 print at its absolute best was superior for colour, like the blue of the ocean or the Spitfire burning up, but the timing was more noticeably mismatched from shot to shot (regardless of the source) and it just didn't hold the dynamic range like the DCP did. As I said, the 5-perf footage itself looked far better in general on the DCP, it intercut virtually seamlessly with the 15-perf in terms of detail, colour and grain in this 2K viewing environment.

I've no idea what make of projector they're using as this is just a shitty little local indie cinema, but it looked so good I thought they might've updated the screen or projector or something! I don't think they have, it's just the quality and richness of a bloody good transfer shining through.

[singhcr]

Very interesting, Geoff. I'm glad you enjoyed it just as much the second time around.

Has anyone been blessed with the ability to compare the 5/70 and 15/70 Dunkirk prints?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by GLaDOS

In other news, Thor Ragnarok will be specially formatted for IMAX (1.90:1 aspect ratio throughout), as expected.

Expected?
The first two Thor films were shot anamorphic 2.40 so this a major difference.

[GLaDOS]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Expected?
The first two Thor films were shot anamorphic 2.40 so this a major difference.

Marvel and IMAX have been pretty tight lately considering the IMAX release of Inhumass and the specially formatted releases of Doctor Strange and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. Spider-Man Homecoming wasn't given an extended IMAX aspect ratio most likely because it wasn't filmed on the latest medium/large format digital cameras (i.e. Arri Alexa 65 and Red Weapon 8K VistaVision).

Ragnarok was shot primarily on the Alexa 65 so it was a likely candidate to get special formatting.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by GLaDOS

Marvel and IMAX have been pretty tight lately considering the IMAX release of Inhumass and the specially formatted releases of Doctor Strange and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. Spider-Man Homecoming wasn't given an extended IMAX aspect ratio most likely because it wasn't filmed on the latest medium/large format digital cameras (i.e. Arri Alexa 65 and Red Weapon 8K VistaVision).

Ragnarok was shot primarily on the Alexa 65 so it was a likely candidate to get special formatting.

When did that really matter though? The first Amazing Spider-Man movie got an opened-up final showdown in IMAX, that was shot on 5K RED. Oblivion got opened up to 1.90 (with 2.39 for the flashbacks?) and was shot on the Sony F65. Skyfall got opened up to 1.90, that was shot Alexa 2.8K. Guardians 1 got a VAR IMAX version, that was also shot on 2.8K Alexa.

As long as you're shooting something flat on a 16:9 or taller image area then the image can be embiggened for IMAX, it doesn't matter what camera you're using or even what format (film, digital, doesn't matter). The 'flat' part is the key, because if you're shooting in anamorphic then that gives you no room to embiggen vertically, aside from the usual amount of flat insert shots (aerials, night exteriors etc) that are used today.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Very interesting, Geoff. I'm glad you enjoyed it just as much the second time around.

Has anyone been blessed with the ability to compare the 5/70 and 15/70 Dunkirk prints?

I wish I could've seen one of those but as the DCP was derived from the 5-perf IP then the minimal quality differences between the two sets of footage should be common to those 70mm prints too, and I'd hazard a guess that the timing was more consistent too.

One thing to remember with the 15/70 prints is that they were individually struck from the negative so each had to be timed accordingly, naturally they'd set up their printer lights to give the same results but film being film, subject to the mercurial whims of light, heat etc as it is, then it's not surprising that some more variances crept in. But the regular 5-perf 70mm prints were run off in the more industrial IP-IN-print fashion so should be a bit more uniform from print to print.

[ITDEFX101]

I am really thinking of going ahead and contacting IMAX QC. My local D-IMAX theater keeps on ignoring the problem that they have been having this year with their screen. The last two movies I saw the rear right speaker kept on making this distorted audio almost like a Geiger counter going off. I reported it during last week's Inhuman's presentation and all I got was a free IMAX readmit pass. A manager on duty blamed it on Dunkirk being a "really loud movie". This year alone they have been ****ing up by playing the wrong movie (F&F instead of GotGv2), not turning on the 3d in the Kong release, and now twice in a row the audio issue with their speakers.

How good is IMAX in responding to these types of emails and going in to look into the situation?

[Zhorik]

If you email the QC stated at the end of the movies, the theater gets a call from IMAX HQ to inquire about the problem and a visit from service tech in some cases.