Large Format/"Premium" Theaters (IMAX 15/70, Digital IMAX, XD, ETX, RPX, etc.)

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by 42041

I think the best quality is always what's closest to the source, and if the source is a 4K DI then I want to view a 4K DCP. With 70mm there's no way around the generation loss. Though theoretically it could be brighter and higher-contrast than digital projection.
IMAX's DMR process tends to look pretty bad IMO. I've read Roger Deakins told them to knock it off with Skyfall.

Bingo! You get it. If the film was made with 4K DI, there is no reason to watch the movie in 1570 as a 4K projection will be superior.

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Bingo! You get it. If the film was made with 4K DI, there is no reason to watch the movie in 1570 as a 4K projection will be superior.

Why is it "superior?"

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by strumdogg

Why is it "superior?"

Because all you are watching is 4k blown up to a format that was designed to show 9-to 10 or so K. You also get image loss when printing from 4K to 1570. Just look at the difference between the IMAX filmed scenes and the 35mm widescreen scenes in Dark Knight Rises...have you seen Dark Knight Rises in IMAX 1570?

[42041]

Originally Posted by strumdogg

Why is it "superior?"

Because all printing to 70mm does at that point is reduce resolution, or in the case of IMAX DMR, reduce resolution and add digital sharpening. An in-focus 4K projector would show a more pure version of the 4K data. Of course, resolution isn't the only image quality metric; depending on the print stock, a film print could have better contrast or colors than what a digital projector can put out.

[joeydrunk]

From everything Ive read these are the nicest theaters in the closest 4 states and the only one in WA with dolby ATMOS and the largest in a few states as well. Im not sure what the 80 ft measures, but its going to be way bigger than anything Ive ever seen and the biggest within 500 miles......except for......

I just found out about our Cinerama, I cant believe I didnt know about this since im only an hour away, its one of only 3 in the world and the only super cinerama in exestinance. Paul allen from microsoft renovated it in 98 and again in 2010 added christie series 2 projectors and danley subs. The cinerama screen plays 35mm and 70mm, its 90 ft by 30 ft and the regular screen is 70 by 30. Its also playing the hobbit in hfr.

Originally Posted by blu-ray_girl_fan

I just created the thread late last night since I also like to watch movies on the largest screens possible.

As for screen sizes, here's a good pic:



From my experience, AMC ETX, Cinemark XD, and Regal RPX screens are about the same size as Digital/Fake IMAX screens. Yes, they reach the walls, ceiling, and floor, but part of their "size" is also based on tearing up the seats at the front of the theater and bringing the screen closer to the audience.

Cinemark Next Gen sounds nice, but I've been to their Next Gen theater in West Plano. You know what Next Gen is? A really nice lobby and self-serve concessions, so you can control the amount of butter/salt that goes into your popcorn. You can also mix soda flavors to your liking, lol.

I just looked at Cinetopia's website. The theaters look really nice, but I wonder if that 80-ft number is a diagonal measure rather than either the height or the width.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by 42041

Because all printing to 70mm does at that point is reduce resolution, or in the case of IMAX DMR, reduce resolution and add digital sharpening. An in-focus 4K projector would show a more pure version of the 4K data. Of course, resolution isn't the only image quality metric; depending on the print stock, a film print could have better contrast or colors than what a digital projector can put out.

Oy... you guys are just bringing up more questions for me. Frankly I don't want to come across as the argumentative "video snob".

[Flatnate]

Well here is a list of venues that recently screened Paul Thomas Anderson "The Master" in 5 perf 70mm.

This is by no means a complete list, it just includes some theaters that actually exhibited a 5 perf 70mm print in the past year. So,I'm sure more exist with 70mm capability who did not participate in screening "The Master" that we can add to the list. Feel free to note more. This list may not be accurate. I just thought it would be fun to note some other large format venues that still exist, that are not soley IMAX.


Austin, Alamo Ritz
Boston, Coolidge Corner Theatre
Chicago, The Music Box Theatre
Cleveland, Cedar Lee Theatre
Los Angeles, Aero Theatre
Los Angeles, The Landmark
Los Angelas, Arclight Cinemas
New York, Museum of the Moving Image
New York, AMC Loews Lincoln Square
New York, Village East Cinema
New York, Ziegfeld Theatre
Oakland, Grand Lake Theater
Omaha, Film Streams
Philadelphia, The Ritz Five
San Francisco, Castro Theatre
Seattle, Seattle Cinerama
Silver Spring MD, AFI Theatre
Washington DC, Landmark E Street Cinema, Bethesda Row

Toronto, Princess of Wales Theatre,
Toronto, Bell Lightbox 1
Toronto, Varsity Cinemas

Amsterdamn Holland, Dutch Film Museum EYE
Karlsruhe Germany, Schauburg Cinema
London, Odeon West End
Melbourne Australia, Astor Theatre
Sydney Australia, The Hayden Orpheum
Paris, Cinema L'Arlequin
Venice, Sala Grande Theatre
Venice, Palabiennale Theatre

[blu-ray_girl_fan]

Originally Posted by joeydrunk

From everything Ive read these are the nicest theaters in the closest 4 states and the only one in WA with dolby ATMOS and the largest in a few states as well. Im not sure what the 80 ft measures, but its going to be way bigger than anything Ive ever seen and the biggest within 500 miles......except for......

I just found out about our Cinerama, I cant believe I didnt know about this since im only an hour away, its one of only 3 in the world and the only super cinerama in exestinance. Paul allen from microsoft renovated it in 98 and again in 2010 added christie series 2 projectors and danley subs. The cinerama screen plays 35mm and 70mm, its 90 ft by 30 ft and the regular screen is 70 by 30. Its also playing the hobbit in hfr.

Yeah, I saw Star Wars Episode 1 at the Cinerama theater in Seattle. It was really nice.

I think that Cinetopia's 80-ft measure is the screen diagonal. I calculated the NYC Real IMAX diagonal, which comes out to about 123-ft. So, Cinetopia's largest screens are indeed quite big, but still noticeably smaller than a Real IMAX screen.

[blu-ray_girl_fan]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Well here is a list of venues that recently screened Paul Thomas Anderson "The Master" in 5 perf 70mm.

This is by no means a complete list, it just includes some theaters that actually exhibited a 5 perf 70mm print in the past year. So,I'm sure more exist with 70mm capability who did not participate in screening "The Master" that we can add to the list. Feel free to note more. This list may not be accurate. I just thought it would be fun to note some other large format venues that still exist, that are not soley IMAX.

There's a difference between large format exhibition and large format photography. Exhibition is about how movies are shown (i.e. how large the screen is), and photography is about how movies are shot/recorded (i.e. how large the film frame is or how much resolution a digital chip can capture).

The larger the screen, the more immersive the viewing experience is.

The "larger" the photographic method, the more resolution you get in the final product.

Showing 70mm on a regular screen is not as "awesome" as 70mm on an IMAX screen.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by blu-ray_girl_fan

There's a difference between large format exhibition and large format photography. Exhibition is about how movies are shown (i.e. how large the screen is), and photography is about how movies are shot/recorded (i.e. how large the film frame is or how much resolution a digital chip can capture).

The larger the screen, the more immersive the viewing experience is.

The "larger" the photographic method, the more resolution you get in the final product.

Showing 70mm on a regular screen is not as "awesome" as 70mm on an IMAX screen.

The Master was filmed on 65mm Panavision as well as some 35mm, and it bypassed the digital intermediate process using the older photo chemical process to maintain visual integrity. It is the last movie made of what is considered a "large format film medium", specifically made to be exhibited on 5 perf 70mm motion picture film on a screen much larger than 35mm. I don't know where you get this "regular screen" stuff as the majority of screens on that list are much larger than your regular 35mm theater. The Seattle Cinerma screen is actually 90 feet wide when opened up completely. Granted their may be some venues on that list that do not boast screens of that size, but many of those exhibition spaces must be considered "large format". IMAX was certainly not the first large format film exhibition medium, nor will it be the last. Feel free to pick that list apart and pull out every screen that doesn't meet your criteria of "large format".

[blu-ray_girl_fan]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

The Master was filmed on 65mm Panavision as well as some 35mm, and it bypassed the digital intermediate process using the older photo chemical process to maintain visual integrity. It is the last movie made of what is considered a "large format film medium", specifically made to be exhibited on 5 perf 70mm motion picture film on a screen much larger than 35mm. I don't know where you get this "regular screen" stuff as the majority of screens on that list are much larger than your regular 35mm theater. The Seattle Cinerma screen is actually 90 feet wide when opened up completely. Granted their may be some venues on that list that do not boast screens of that size, but many of those exhibition spaces must be considered "large format". IMAX was certainly not the first large format film exhibition medium, nor will it be the last. Feel free to pick that list apart and pull out every screen that doesn't meet your criteria of "large format".

The Alamo theaters in Austin don't have Very Large Screens. They have Normal Size Screens.

I'm sure that The Master looks very nice in 70mm, but again, how you shoot a movie is not the same as how you show a movie.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by blu-ray_girl_fan

The Alamo theaters in Austin don't have Very Large Screens. They have Normal Size Screens.

I'm sure that The Master looks very nice in 70mm, but again, how you shoot a movie is not the same as how you show a movie.

Screen size is the not the sole reason for watching a movie is 70mm (non IMAX).

The following below is a list of benefits over regular 35mm on the same screen.

1. Image steadiness (70mm is far more steady on screen than 35mm)
2. Less light flicker
3. Much brighter.
4. No anamorphic image squeezing
5. Far, far, far, far superior sound for 70mm movies that were made with magnetic soundtracks...Digital 5.1 is nowhere near that of magnetic
6. Artistic merit (composition, and more frame)

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by blu-ray_girl_fan

how you shoot a movie is not the same as how you show a movie.

Just so everyone knows:

In Toronto Canada, there was the very first IMAX theatre called the Ontario Place IMAX, at the time it had the largest screen in the world for IMAX.

During the 80's, the theatre would regularly show non IMAX 70mm 5 perf on the IMAX screen, these presentations had nothing to do with the IMAX projectors, the 70mm presentations that you saw were about the same size as that of the 35mm widescreen sequences of the Dark Knight Rises. These were all "blow up" 70mm films.

Fast forward to today, what we see now is 35mm blowup to an even larger 70mm print and shown on a screen that was designed for 70mm IMAX.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by blu-ray_girl_fan

The Alamo theaters in Austin don't have Very Large Screens. They have Normal Size Screens.

I'm sure that The Master looks very nice in 70mm, but again, how you shoot a movie is not the same as how you show a movie.

Well yeah, but 70mm projection is still way better than 35mm, yeah its not running through the proejctor horizontally like traditional IMAX but its impressive none the less, and much better suited for the larger screen sizes than 35mm. Those are still some of the larger screens out there.

I agree, for me it really is about screen size when you go out. Kinda like Pagemaster smacking me around for believing 15/70mm is better than 4K but ultimately in the end I still go to my closest 15/70mm IMAX for the screen size alone rather than the smaller screen using a 4K projector. Projection tech is secondary to just sheer size in my opinion. Still 5 perf 70mm was made for the biggest screens in existence prior to IMAX coming along in the 70's.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I agree, for me it really is about screen size when you go out. Kinda like Pagemaster smacking me around for believing 15/70mm is better than 4K but ultimately in the end I still go to my closest 15/70mm IMAX for the screen size alone rather than the smaller screen using a 4K projector. Projection tech is secondary to just sheer size in my opinion. Still 5 perf 70mm was made for the biggest screens in existence prior to IMAX coming along in the 70's.

Fair enough, but screen size alone is not the only reason to go to a 70mm feature.

[blu-ray_girl_fan]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Well yeah, but 70mm projection is still way better than 35mm, yeah its not running through the proejctor horizontally like traditional IMAX but its impressive none the less, and much better suited for the larger screen sizes. Those are still some of the larger screens out there.

I agree, for me it really is about screen size when you go out. Kinda like Pagemaster smacking me around for believing 15/70mm is better than 4K but ultimately in the end I still go to my closest 15/70mm IMAX for the screen size alone rather than the smaller screen using a 4K projector. Projection tech is secondary to just sheer size in my opinion. Still 5 perf 70mm was made for the biggest screens in existence prior to IMAX coming along in the 70's.

It's not difficult to test this for yourself at home.

1) Get a cell phone that takes no more than 2 MPs pictures, and get an actual camera with 10 MPs or more.

2) Using both your cell phone and camera, take pictures of something, such as your car sitting in the garage, driveway, or parking lot.

3) Look at the pictures on your computer monitor (presumably in the 12-inch to 20-inch range).

4) Now look at the pictures on your TV (presumably larger than your computer monitor).

2 MP Cell phone = 8mm/16mm/35mm film

10 MP Camera = 70 mm film

Computer monitor = normal size theater screen

TV = IMAX

You can shoot using whatever recording medium you want, and you can exhibit on whatever size screen you want. These are two separate things.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Still 5 perf 70mm was made for the biggest screens in existence prior to IMAX coming along in the 70's.

This is not exactly true. It was also made for the sound, as far back as the 50s, there was multi-track sound, this was made by magnetic processes. That is why the negative is 65mm

A movie like Empire Strikes Back would have a 70mm 6-track Dolby Sound that was far superior to anything today.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by blu-ray_girl_fan

2 MP Cell phone = 8mm/16mm/35mm film

10 MP Camera = 70 mm film

Computer monitor = normal size theater screen

TV = IMAX

.

Ok, makes no sense but I will play along.

The entire movie of SkyFall is like your 2MP cell phone, blowing that up and showing it on you large TV screen when it was only designed for your computer monitor.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Fair enough, but screen size alone is not the only reason to go to a 70mm feature.

True, granted I have 4K digital theater ten minutes from my door on what would have been a 35mm screen theater. The drive to 15/70mm IMAX is nearly an hour, but despite the shortcomings of a 4K to 70mm blow up I find the spectacle of the whole thing much more enjoyable. Granted I probably sit closer to my screen at home than the SMPTE or THX guidelines recommend. That's just me.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

This is not exactly true. It was also made for the sound, as far back as the 50s, there was multi-track sound, this was made by magnetic processes. That is why the negative is 65mm

A movie like Empire Strikes Back would have a 70mm 6-track Dolby Sound that was far superior to anything today.

True that, I forgot about the sound aspect. Thanks.