Large Format/"Premium" Theaters (IMAX 15/70, Digital IMAX, XD, ETX, RPX, etc.)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

The Panavision DXL/Red Epic 8K sensor isn't really large format in the traditional sense. Its sensor size is more comparable to a Full Frame 35mm camera such as a Canon 5D MKIII or Sony a7S. It's in the middle ground between a traditional 35mm sensor and full-fledged 65mm sensor like the Alexa 65.

Since we live in age of IMAX 15/65mm, which makes even traditional 65mm look like a baby, the idea of calling the DXL/Epic 8K "large format" seems odd to me.

Although honestly, outside of IMAX capture, who cares? The logic of why 65mm was so beneficial back in the day doesn't really apply to modern day digital.

As for large format on digital, I'd say it's still relevant and for much the same reasons as in the olden days: bigger sensor means less noise and more detail. The regular Alexa has proved itself capable of recording beautiful images, that's not in doubt, but the A3X sensor inside the 65 (so named because it's literally three Alexa sensors turned thru 90 degrees and stitched together) means it's carting around some serious hardware and the difference is obvious to me.

The larger image circle means an entirely different class of glass, natch, so some differences are more 'apples and oranges' when comparing one to the other (dat UP70 on Rogue One!! ) but even so, there's a glossy sheen to something like Passengers in 4K that a 4K-finished Alexa XT Open Gate show like Sicario or Deadpool lacks, although they both look stupendously gorgeous in their own right on 4K UHD which also feeds back to your final point above, Spike.

But when dealing with Bayer arrays you're not capturing full colour resolution, and this is another area where greater than 4K capture - though not necessarily large format - brings its own advantages when boiling it down to 4K or less. A big chunk of the colour isn't captured natively on such sensors - being 50% green and 25% each for red and blue - and it needs to be interpolated during post (debayering) into full RGB, so if shooting at 6K or 8K for a 4K finish you're capturing more native colour information at source which will filter down into the final product.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As for large format on digital, I'd say it's still relevant and for much the same reasons as in the olden days: bigger sensor means less noise and more detail. The regular Alexa has proved itself capable of recording beautiful images, that's not in doubt, but the A3X sensor inside the 65 (so named because it's literally three Alexa sensors turned thru 90 degrees and stitched together) means it's carting around some serious hardware and the difference is obvious to me.

The larger image circle means an entirely different class of glass, natch, so some differences are more 'apples and oranges' when comparing one to the other (dat UP70 on Rogue One!! ) but even so, there's a glossy sheen to something like Passengers in 4K that a 4K-finished Alexa XT Open Gate show like Sicario or Deadpool lacks, although they both look stupendously gorgeous in their own right on 4K UHD which also feeds back to your final point above, Spike.

But when dealing with Bayer arrays you're not capturing full colour resolution, and this is another area where greater than 4K capture - though not necessarily large format - brings its own advantages when boiling it down to 4K or less. A big chunk of the colour isn't captured natively on such sensors - being 50% green and 25% each for red and blue - and it needs to be interpolated during post (debayering) into full RGB, so if shooting at 6K or 8K for a 4K finish you're capturing more native colour information at source which will filter down into the final product.

I can't really tell the difference between the Alexa 65 and the Alexa XT in most contexts. Then again, I don't have a UHD or HDR set to make a comparison too. Sicario looks just as detailed to my eyes as Passengers does on my 1080p projector.

But, outside of depth of field, which can be pretty much approximated using low T-stop glass, I'm hard pressed to find any obvious indicators in an image captured by an Alexa 65 that make it clear that it was captured by an Alexa 65. It doesn't really have any inherent characteristics. I'd never be able to guess that something like Doctor Strange was shot on a 65mm over a 35mm one.

The most obvious benefit of a 65mm sensor is that it captures more light. But that's only really meaningful in extreme low light situations, as digital is so sensitive to light that even in some night exteriors you have to put an ND filter on if you're shooting with a T-stop like 2.5 or below. Noise with the Alexa XT is only really a problem if the DP isn't doing their job right. And heck, then you have people like Rodrigo Prieto shooting night scenes at a higher ISO on the Alexa XT just to have any visible noise at all since he thinks it's otherwise too pristine.

Point being, the difference is a pretty subtle gradient, not the extreme night and day difference between 35mm and 65mm and IMAX film stocks.

[Geoff D]

Sure, it's actual 4K playback that I'm talking about, though within that frame of reference there are movies like The Relevant which freely switch between XT and 65 and I'll be damned if I can pick which is which.

[edit] I am still a fan of the 65 though. I think on a purely sensor-based level you're gonna get the same visual characteristics out of each camera, but by dint of it being large format you're then using a different quality of glass and longer focal length by default, and even if it's just that which makes the difference then that's good enough for me. Some movies do indeed manage to replicate that kind of look in terms of depth of field (though not the ones that I think, as you rightly schooled me on ) by shooting wide open e.g. the XT-lensed Arrival, but IMO they lack the ultimate resolving power of large format so you get the shallow DOF without the gorgeously glossy detail to go with it.

[Dreamliner330]

IMAX can't even make a YouTube video properly. Zero right channel dialog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZD9...ature=youtu.be

The IMAX YouTube channel is horrendously managed.

[ITDEFX101]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

IMAX can't even make a YouTube video properly. Zero right channel dialog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZD9...ature=youtu.be

The IMAX YouTube channel is horrendously managed.

As long as he doesn't switch AR in the same scene like he did with AOE, then it's going to be totally worth seeing at Udvar Hazy IMAX. I hated him for flipping AR's in the same scene...I was like wth is going on?!?!??! FULL/LB/FULL/LB...grrrr!!!

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by ITDEFX101

As long as he doesn't switch AR in the same scene like he did with AOE, then it's going to be totally worth seeing at Udvar Hazy IMAX. I hated him for flipping AR's in the same scene...I was like wth is going on?!?!??! FULL/LB/FULL/LB...grrrr!!!

Nolan did it. (Fighting Bane the second time in TDK)

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

Nolan did it. (Fighting Bane the second time in TDK)

Not that bad...but still.

[Geoff D]

It's not like that scene flipped back and forth though, did it? The transition was placed in such a subtle way I didn't even notice it happen, and I watched that sucker in 15/70 IMAX!

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not like that scene flipped back and forth though, did it? The transition was placed in such a subtle way I didn't even notice it happen, and I watched that sucker in 15/70 IMAX!

Wasn't it just when Batman kicked him into city hall? Never felt off to me. Always seemed like a natural transition. An exterior to an interior, a cut on action, that kinda thing.

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Wasn't it just when Batman kicked him into city hall? Never felt off to me. Always seemed like a natural transition. An exterior to an interior, a cut on action, that kinda thing.

I think that's right and all Nolan films have moments like that.

Though in The Dark Knight the Lau extraction scene goes back and forth in the AR a few times and it is distracting IMO (even on Blu, and I imagine it would be more so on a giant IMAX screen).

[Poya]

Regardless, Transformers 2 is still the worst example of IMAX filmmaking I've ever seen. None of the scenes were composed correctly because Bay felt the need to put everything in frame, and it doesn't matter if the viewer can't see what's going on.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Poya

Regardless, Transformers 2 is still the worst example of IMAX filmmaking I've ever seen. None of the scenes were composed correctly because Bay felt the need to put everything in frame, and it doesn't matter if the viewer can't see what's going on.

Watching a Michael Bay movie in IMAX is actual torture. I still get a headache thinking about that last Transformers movie in IMAX 3D.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Wasn't it just when Batman kicked him into city hall? Never felt off to me. Always seemed like a natural transition. An exterior to an interior, a cut on action, that kinda thing.

Oh, right. Sorry, I'm misremembering my TDKR. I was thinking of that seamless cut when the gate clanks down behind Bats when Catwoman leads him into the sewer, not the street fight.

[ITDEFX101]

I was thinking of the scene where the Autobots finally meet up in the Canyon and then they start talking...FULL..LB...FULL..LB... I don't have the 3d imax only edition of AOE so it's all from memory...can anyone with the IMAX 3d disc confirm this?

[silentbob]

Originally Posted by ITDEFX101

I was thinking of the scene where the Autobots finally meet up in the Canyon and then they start talking...FULL..LB...FULL..LB... I don't have the 3d imax only edition of AOE so it's all from memory...can anyone with the IMAX 3d disc confirm this?

Its funny I have all the movie and haven't seen 2-4 yet. Although i can confirm that in the 3D version (at least) That the aspect ratio does indeed swap several times for that short scene/moment. One of 2 scenes i ever bothered to check on my disc. . . go figure.

[Eric The Duke]

I'm going to be in Chantilly today so I'm going to the Airbus IMAX to see Fate of the Furious. It's not really a movie that I would normally see in IMAX but since I'll be near I might as well.

[ITDEFX101]

Originally Posted by Eric The Duke

I'm going to be in Chantilly today so I'm going to the Airbus IMAX to see Fate of the Furious. It's not really a movie that I would normally see in IMAX but since I'll be near I might as well.

hmm....I'd be interested to see if there are AR changes during the movie.

[ITDEFX101]

Originally Posted by silentbob

Its funny I have all the movie and haven't seen 2-4 yet. Although i can confirm that in the 3D version (at least) That the aspect ratio does indeed swap several times for that short scene/moment. One of 2 scenes i ever bothered to check on my disc. . . go figure.

HA! I KNEW IT!!!!! That could have been an amazing shot in IMAX if most of the frame was not covered with a close up of an Autobot.

[ITDEFX101]

So...............anyone see the new TLJ Trailer just released a few hours ago? Speculations on the specific IMAX scenes? My guess is the Achato (SP?) scenes as it looks spectacular.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

IMAX can't even make a YouTube video properly. Zero right channel dialog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZD9...ature=youtu.be

The IMAX YouTube channel is horrendously managed.

What a great promo video. Hearing bay mention that he is trying to preserve the cinematic experience is a very good thing he is doing. Saying things like see the movie in the theaters with a brightly lite screen is what should be happening. Not this shortening the theatrical window for video on demand. I am not a huge fan of the latest Transformers movies, but I will see this movie just based on this promo alone.