Large Format/"Premium" Theaters (IMAX 15/70, Digital IMAX, XD, ETX, RPX, etc.)

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

I've actually talked to a manager at Lincoln Square about the IMAX right after the digital conversion in late 2013 and he said their plan was to go to laser eventually (I could tell without him saying so that he didn't like the digital as much as the 15/70 and was looking forward to the laser upgrade), but there is no official announcement for that or a timeframe as far as I can find from searching. I bet the Dolby Cinema comes first given that has been announced (albeit without a timeframe), but maybe we get a bit lucky and they add it for next summer's movie season the way Seattle and DC did for this one.

As for the DC Smithsonian locations, I think there are 3 locations and the Airbus already converted, so the other two would make sense to follow.

the other two were supposed to be done after the Airbus Udvar Hazy conversion, but the Air & Space Lockheed conversion wont happen til the other major renovations of the museum occur. Natural History's rescheduled date is TBD.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

The day I heard Great Clips IMAX was getting 2K (which was after the IMAX 4K announcement) I knew it wouldn't be getting 4K, if ever.

I pleaded with them to remain steadfast and wait for 4K, the advice fell on deaf ears.

That theater has a better chance of closing that getting 4K. It only has 1 screen and it's usually empty.

I've said they need to verbally announce to every crowd that it's the biggest screen in the state (and highest resolution in 70mm days), nothing like having a captive audience. Of course, again, the suggestion fell on deaf ears.

Has the attendance been that bad on the evening Hollywood shows too? I know they have a lot of educational stuff during the day. Lemurs in 3D etc... I would expect it to be pretty empty for that honestly. I attended Prometheus opening night to a packed house as well as Interstellar on opening weekend and that was a completely sold out show.

I would rather have the theater open with dual xenon 2k, then closed with dual laser 4K. That said I have friends on the south side, and they too admit passing on the always 3D IMAX for 2D showings on the few films they want to see in the theater each year.

I hate to be that 3D hater guy on here but I gotta say that I don't know if 3D is hurting IMAX, but I'm certainly not convinced that it is helping them.

Oh, and side note... the seat upgrades at the end of last year were a huge improvement... they were a major turn-off for the place before. Popcorn there is better, but could still could use some improvement.

[Flatnate]

Had a long plane ride today and read a pretty good article in Widescreen Review which interviewed Stuart Bowling of Dolby Labs about Dolby Cinema. The short take away is that Dolby is really trying to take the screws to IMAX, especially in the smaller format Digital IMAX theaters. Dolby has acquired Doremi (makes cinema servers) and is partnering with Christie Digital to provide a dual 4K laser based, high dynamic range projection system. Additionally, Christie has acquired BG Radia speakers and Dolby plans to incorporate those speaker patents in to an Atmos system that is completely hidden from sight behind angular acoustical treatments designed to minimize light reflection. All of this in a custom theater and entry way designed by the firm who created the Apple Stores. Bowling stated that the whole thing would rest on a kind of partnership model between the theater owner and Dolby, in hopes that they can bring it in to more markets.

Hopefully Dolby will throw me a bone and ease up on the 3D exclusivity as compared to IMAX. I think overall it will be a compelling alternative. That said, I really think the size of the former 15/70mm IMAX locations will one of the main differentiating factors as time goes on.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Has the attendance been that bad on the evening Hollywood shows too? I know they have a lot of educational stuff during the day. Lemurs in 3D etc... I would expect it to be pretty empty for that honestly. I attended Prometheus opening night to a packed house as well as Interstellar on opening weekend and that was a completely sold out show.

I would rather have the theater open with dual xenon 2k, then closed with dual laser 4K. That said I have friends on the south side, and they too admit passing on the always 3D IMAX for 2D showings on the few films they want to see in the theater each year.

I hate to be that 3D hater guy on here but I gotta say that I don't know if 3D is hurting IMAX, but I'm certainly not convinced that it is helping them.

Oh, and side note... the seat upgrades at the end of last year were a huge improvement... they were a major turn-off for the place before. Popcorn there is better, but could still could use some improvement.

I never go to showings on nights or weekends, but daytime showings don't have many people.

I agree though, I'd rather have the theater than not. I just haven't been there since Interstellar. It's $6.50 more than digital IMAX and a 45 minute drive and it's the same projector.

I personally love 3D though. The only time I don't like it is when I'm in some crappy RealD theater. I've never had a bad IMAX 3D experience.

Originally Posted by Flatnate

The short take away is that Dolby is really trying to take the screws to IMAX, especially in the smaller format Digital IMAX theaters.

I have this feeling that AMC will be switching a lot of their Digital IMAX rooms to Dolby rooms soon. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Consistency is the one thing IMAX has.

[Coenskubrick]

That cinema sure looks captivating. I mean it's all glowy and stuff.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Had a long plane ride today and read a pretty good article in Widescreen Review which interviewed Stuart Bowling of Dolby Labs about Dolby Cinema. The short take away is that Dolby is really trying to take the screws to IMAX, especially in the smaller format Digital IMAX theaters. Dolby has acquired Doremi (makes cinema servers) and is partnering with Christie Digital to provide a dual 4K laser based, high dynamic range projection system. Additionally, Christie has acquired BG Radia speakers and Dolby plans to incorporate those speaker patents in to an Atmos system that is completely hidden from sight behind angular acoustical treatments designed to minimize light reflection. All of this in a custom theater and entry way designed by the firm who created the Apple Stores. Bowling stated that the whole thing would rest on a kind of partnership model between the theater owner and Dolby, in hopes that they can bring it in to more markets.

Hopefully Dolby will throw me a bone and ease up on the 3D exclusivity as compared to IMAX. I think overall it will be a compelling alternative. That said, I really think the size of the former 15/70mm IMAX locations will one of the main differentiating factors as time goes on.

Dolby Cinema is old news. I don't think it will be as successfull as people think/want it to be. They are a little late to game. There is only so much room for all of these premium large formats.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

I never go to showings on nights or weekends, but daytime showings don't have many people.

I agree though, I'd rather have the theater than not. I just haven't been there since Interstellar. It's $6.50 more than digital IMAX and a 45 minute drive and it's the same projector.

I personally love 3D though. The only time I don't like it is when I'm in some crappy RealD theater. I've never had a bad IMAX 3D experience.



I have this feeling that AMC will be switching a lot of their Digital IMAX rooms to Dolby rooms soon. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Consistency is the one thing IMAX has.

If IMAX woks for AMC, why would they switch?

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

If IMAX woks for AMC, why would they switch?

$$

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

$$

IMAX does very well for AMC and for all of the other theaters chains. Dolby is dead brand to the new gen or millennials.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

Theaters is dead brand to the new gen or millennials.

Fixed. Which is the real problem btw.

Unfortunately, a significant portion of Millennials would rather stream a cam rip than go to a theater. Most of the ones who do go to a theater go to the cheapest one and don't know about/or see value in a premium format.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

Fixed. Which is the real problem btw.

Unfortunately, a significant portion of Millennials would rather stream a cam rip than go to a theater. Most of the ones who do go to a theater go to the cheapest one and don't know about/or see value in a premium format.

That's not necessarily true. Even my 21 year old stoner friends who are fine with HBO cropping movies to 16:9 won't suffer through a cam rip. There's been three, billion dollar plus movies this year so far, and there's a number of titles that will likely hit similar highs yet to come. People are willing to pay as long as the movie is worth X miles of travel and Y number of dollars. As far as "experiences" are concerned, I think something like Interstellar on a 60x80 screen is far more likely to attract the attention of people in my age group than a Dolby theater with a slightly larger screen but "omg super good black levels". I'm not sure Dolby Vision is the solution to my generation's apathy. More proper IMAX's might be. Even with a custom 7.1 sound system and 120 inch screen at my disposal, I'm still willing to travel the four hour's to Seattle if something like Interstellar is playing (as were the people behind me in line, from Canada), whereas there's very few movies I feel compelled to see in theaters otherwise, since the screens don't seem much bigger based on field of view than my 120 inch set up, and the picture difference is minor.

I think if theaters want to reclaim their glory, they need to go big. Other than like, Elon Musk, very few people can replicate in their home what a 60x80 IMAX screen can put out, coupled with an amazing sound system. Replicating a typical 25 ft wide screen though? HD/UHTV's and boxed home theater's have it covered as far as singular and family viewing is concerned.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

That's not necessarily true. Even my 21 year old stoner friends who are fine with HBO cropping movies to 16:9 won't suffer through a cam rip. There's been three, billion dollar plus movies this year so far, and there's a number of titles that will likely hit similar highs yet to come. People are willing to pay as long as the movie is worth X miles of travel and Y number of dollars. As far as "experiences" are concerned, I think something like Interstellar on a 60x80 screen is far more likely to attract the attention of people in my age group than a Dolby theater with a slightly larger screen but "omg super good black levels". I'm not sure Dolby Vision is the solution to my generation's apathy. More proper IMAX's might be. Even with a custom 7.1 sound system and 120 inch screen at my disposal, I'm still willing to travel the four hour's to Seattle if something like Interstellar is playing (as were the people behind me in line, from Canada), whereas there's very few movies I feel compelled to see in theaters otherwise, since the screens don't seem much bigger based on field of view than my 120 inch set up, and the picture difference is minor.

I think if theaters want to reclaim their glory, they need to go big. Other than like, Elon Musk, very few people can replicate in their home what a 60x80 IMAX screen can put out, coupled with an amazing sound system. Replicating a typical 25 ft wide screen though? HD/UHTV's and boxed home theater's have it covered as far as singular and family viewing is concerned.

Thats why I suggested the one true IMAX theater in Minnesota take 2 minutes before each screening to personally welcome everyone and remind them it is the biggest screen in the state. They audience may know, they may not...word of mouth would spread.

I am 31 and almost everyone my age or younger that I personally know is allergic to paying for a better film experience.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Has the attendance been that bad on the evening Hollywood shows too? I know they have a lot of educational stuff during the day. Lemurs in 3D etc... I would expect it to be pretty empty for that honestly. I attended Prometheus opening night to a packed house as well as Interstellar on opening weekend and that was a completely sold out show.

The problem with the Great Clips IMAX is that it was designed for education classic IMAX non Hollywood movies and is standalone cinema. It is admirable that Great Clips in playing Hollywood movies, but they should be playing their documentary stuff 10-11 showtimes per day, this is what the Great Clips Business model was, but unfortunately it is no longer viable. People simply do not go to a zoo to then watch a 2 hr Marvel, Furious movid or Tom Cruise movie. With Interstellar and The Dark Knight Rises, these are one-off films that do showcase what true 70mm IMAX is all about, but with Great Clips being the only IMAX 70mm location in the state of Minnesota, the fan-boys will attend, and the studios and Chris Nolan pushed it. When you release a film like Jack Ryan Shadow Recruit, the film has no chance at a theater like the Great Clips

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I would rather have the theater open with dual xenon 2k, then closed with dual laser 4K. That said I have friends on the south side, and they too admit passing on the always 3D IMAX for 2D showings on the few films they want to see in the theater each year.

I totally agree, however the Great Clips currently has no problem accessing 70mm non-Hollywood prints, they should be able to make it work with Non-Hollywood. If they can't, then time to close.

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I hate to be that 3D hater guy on here but I gotta say that I don't know if 3D is hurting IMAX, but I'm certainly not convinced that it is helping them. .

I agree, but from a branding standpoint, offering 3D is not the right way to go for IMAX when the studios want the movie to be released in 3D.

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Had a long plane ride today and read a pretty good article in Widescreen Review which interviewed Stuart Bowling of Dolby Labs about Dolby Cinema. The short take away is that Dolby is really trying to take the screws to IMAX, especially in the smaller format Digital IMAX theaters. Dolby has acquired Doremi (makes cinema servers) and is partnering with Christie Digital to provide a dual 4K laser based, high dynamic range projection system. Additionally, Christie has acquired BG Radia speakers and Dolby plans to incorporate those speaker patents in to an Atmos system that is completely hidden from sight behind angular acoustical treatments designed to minimize light reflection. All of this in a custom theater and entry way designed by the firm who created the Apple Stores. Bowling stated that the whole thing would rest on a kind of partnership model between the theater owner and Dolby, in hopes that they can bring it in to more markets.

Hopefully Dolby will throw me a bone and ease up on the 3D exclusivity as compared to IMAX. I think overall it will be a compelling alternative. That said, I really think the size of the former 15/70mm IMAX locations will one of the main differentiating factors as time goes on.

FYI, the AMC Prime at the Empire 25 just closed for renovation and the plan is to reopen in September as a Dolby Cinema location. So seems like laser projection is finally about to hit the NYC market.

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

Star Wars I think is gonna get a release. But I could see IMAX pushing laser to the older locations, so maybe not. I believe the older locations that convert to 15/70 are not allowed to keep the film projectors.

Not sure how reliable the Making Star Wars sources are, but they are reporting that Force Awakens will indeed have a 70mm IMAX print release and included some image comparisons (note the laser locations will also keep the classic IMAX aspect ratio).

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/08/st...ation-details/

While I know Force Awakens did some 15/70 filming, I didn't think it would get any 15/70 prints made given all the reports Interstellar would be the last such release and that has been the only 15/70 Hollywood release of the last two years, but maybe with a title this big and the laser rollout going slowly, all parties justified the expense of creating these prints (also would make it the first and perhaps only studio picture to release in all 3 IMAX formats).

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

Not sure how reliable the Making Star Wars sources are, but they are reporting that Force Awakens will indeed have a 70mm IMAX print release and included some image comparisons (note the laser locations will also keep the classic IMAX aspect ratio).

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/08/st...ation-details/

While I know Force Awakens did some 15/70 filming, I didn't think it would get any 15/70 prints made given all the reports Interstellar would be the last such release and that has been the only 15/70 Hollywood release of the last two years, but maybe with a title this big and the laser rollout going slowly, all parties justified the expense of creating these prints (also would make it the first and perhaps only studio picture to release in all 3 IMAX formats).

I saw the report that there might be 70mm prints, I lose respect once a publication calls digital Xenon IMAX a gimmick or fake. Yes Digital Xenon is not the same as 70mm but so professionalism need to be maintained to gekeep credibility.

. It is possible but I highly doubt it. Keeping in mind that Interstellar was shown on 50 locations world wide and 42 of them where in the USA. By November there will be 15-20 IMAX laser locations so that does not leave as many 70mm left.

As for the movie having just one sequence in 70mm, I HIGHLY , HIGHLY , HIGHLY doubt this will be true. Either JJ Abrams is lying, the BS fan sites have misinterpreted the statement or the one 70mm sequence will be cropped down to scope as they just wanted the 70mm film for the high rez in that sequence. It makes no sense to have one sequence in the classic IMAX ratio.

More than likely the movie will have multiple IMAX sequences or it will do the Hunger Games 2 second half set up.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

Not sure how reliable the Making Star Wars sources are, but they are reporting that Force Awakens will indeed have a 70mm IMAX print release and included some image comparisons (note the laser locations will also keep the classic IMAX aspect ratio).

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/08/st...ation-details/

While I know Force Awakens did some 15/70 filming, I didn't think it would get any 15/70 prints made given all the reports Interstellar would be the last such release and that has been the only 15/70 Hollywood release of the last two years, but maybe with a title this big and the laser rollout going slowly, all parties justified the expense of creating these prints (also would make it the first and perhaps only studio picture to release in all 3 IMAX formats).

Well, I suppose this chart from 4 months ago is no longer reliable:

http://imgur.com/R3ATMpM

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

I saw the report that there might be 70mm prints, I lose respect once a publication calls digital Xenon IMAX a gimmick or fake. Yes Digital Xenon is not the same as 70mm but so professionalism need to be maintained to gekeep credibility.

. It is possible but I highly doubt it. Keeping in mind that Interstellar was shown on 50 locations world wide and 42 of them where in the USA. By November there will be 15-20 IMAX laser locations so that does not leave as many 70mm left.

Like I said, the Universal Citywalk IMAX has stated that they have no plans to kicking out their 70mm projector, even when the laser projector comes there. And yes, LIEMAX deserves criticism when there are 4K projectors, not even laser, that are far better in every way.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

I saw the report that there might be 70mm prints, I lose respect once a publication calls digital Xenon IMAX a gimmick or fake. Yes Digital Xenon is not the same as 70mm but so professionalism need to be maintained to gekeep credibility.

. It is possible but I highly doubt it. Keeping in mind that Interstellar was shown on 50 locations world wide and 42 of them where in the USA. By November there will be 15-20 IMAX laser locations so that does not leave as many 70mm left.

As for the movie having just one sequence in 70mm, I HIGHLY , HIGHLY , HIGHLY doubt this will be true. Either JJ Abrams is lying, the BS fan sites have misinterpreted the statement or the one 70mm sequence will be cropped down to scope as they just wanted the 70mm film for the high rez in that sequence. It makes no sense to have one sequence in the classic IMAX ratio.

More than likely the movie will have multiple IMAX sequences or it will do the Hunger Games 2 second half set up.

Doesn't matter whether you HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt it's got one IMAX sequence, it happens to be true: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...akens-20150206

However, that's about the only thing that Star Wars article gets right because the rest of it is pure clickbait nonsense. Don't get me wrongo, it's true that 15/70 IMAX uses two platters for 3D but that's how 15/70 3D has *always* worked, and that in no way has a bearing on how the 3D is being done on the movie itself, which IS in fact a "gimmicky" post-conversion. Even the IMAX stills in the article were released by LFL months ago, they're nothing new, so I myself am HIGHLY sceptical that this will get a 15/70 release if Making Star Wars says so.

Still, it appears that the North American market is the priority for the Laser IMAX installs as there's no sign of any being done in the UK, so it may well be that a handful of 15/70 prints are created for those outside markets. That said, even a handful will be expensive because 3D 15/70 is literally double the cost of 2D due to it needing two prints, so even if it ran in half the venues that Interstellar did it'd still need the same amount of physical prints to be struck.

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Doesn't matter whether you HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt it's got one IMAX sequence, it happens to be true: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...akens-20150206

However, that's about the only thing that Star Wars article gets right because the rest of it is pure clickbait nonsense. Don't get me wrongo, it's true that 15/70 IMAX uses two platters for 3D but that's how 15/70 3D has *always* worked, and that in no way has a bearing on how the 3D is being done on the movie itself, which IS in fact a "gimmicky" post-conversion. Even the IMAX stills in the article were released by LFL months ago, they're nothing new, so I myself am HIGHLY sceptical that this will get a 15/70 release if Making Star Wars says so.

Still, it appears that the North American market is the priority for the Laser IMAX installs as there's no sign of any being done in the UK, so it may well be that a handful of 15/70 prints are created for those outside markets. That said, even a handful will be expensive because 3D 15/70 is literally double the cost of 2D due to it needing two prints, so even if it ran in half the venues that Interstellar did it'd still need the same amount of physical prints to be struck.

It doesn't cost exactly twice to make a 3D 15/70 print since there is some kind of deal by making two parts. But I hear a 2D 15/70 feature length print costs in the low 30k range, while for 3D it is more like 50k per location, and this was in 2013 (costs may have gone up since given how fewer places are working with film). So those are high costs and probably would be spending a million or more just on prints even with a Catching Fire style 15/70 release (which I believe was around 20 locations worldwide and is the last feature length 15/70 release I personally saw)- but if any film can justify those costs now it's Force Awakens.

Also, yeah the article didn't seem great, which is why I questioned how reliable Making Star Wars' sources were, though it does seem like a bunch of places picked up on it.

Maybe someone should ask IMAX on Twitter. I don't have an account but my brother does and said they are usually responsive to polite questions (certainly if someone calls Digital IMAX "fake" or a "gimmick" in their question that doesn't help).

[Geoff D]

Sure, economies of scale will always come into play but it'll still cost substantially more than doing a 2D only release, and (as you say) seeing as how the numbers of true 15/70 projectors (and film practitioners in general) have dwindled since 2013 it might not prove to be economically viable, even for a licence-to-print-money movie like Ep VII. Don't underestimate the powahhh of the studio bean counters, although I'd love to see it happen.

That article seems to have been seized upon by most movie sites across the internets, not that that proves its veracity in any way. If anything it serves to prove how little knowledge there is about such stuff in the wider online realm, that such a fluffy, ill-informed and regurgitative piece could garner such traffic.