Blade Runner 4K UHD (1982)

[Brightstar]

Why are ther five cuts of the same film?

[Marcuslaw]

Originally Posted by Brightstar

Why are ther five cuts of the same film?

From Off-world: The Blade Runner Wiki:

Blade Runner versions

By the way, this article, Memories of Blade Runner: Ethics of Film Restoration in the Digital Age, does a fine job describing the changes made to the original elements to create the Final Cut.

[Lensman]

Originally Posted by Brightstar

Why are ther five cuts of the same film?

I'd argue that there are 6.
The 5 disc blu-ray set includes a remarkable set of unused scenes that have been sequentially assembled and form another small version of the film. I was REALLY amazed by this.

[Stiler]

Originally Posted by Pieter V

#1 Best Seller in Drama Blu-ray Discs

~Amazon

Where are you seeing this? I'm not seeing a 4k blade runner anywhere on amazon.

[Pieter V]

Originally Posted by Stiler

Where are you seeing this? I'm not seeing a 4k blade runner anywhere on amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Blade-Runner-...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[Marcuslaw]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It would be defining a literal dimension of sound without the creators' input. To me, this would be no different (although maybe on a less profound scale) than someone who isn't one of the original filmmakers colorizing a black-and-white movie or converting a 2D movie to 3D. An intriguing curiosity, perhaps, but not the original artists' art.

The question over Ridley's approval of the remix of BR from 5.1 to ATMOS for the 4K UHD Blu-ray is going to have to remain an unanswered one for now. WB's press release is mum on the issue and I haven't come across any subsequent sources. All the presser says about the new mix is:

The Ultra HD Blu-ray disc of Blade Runner: The Final Cut will feature a Dolby Atmos® soundtrack remixed specifically for the home theater environment to place and move audio anywhere in the room, including overhead. To experience Dolby Atmos at home, a Dolby Atmos enabled AV receiver and additional speakers are required, or a Dolby Atmos enabled sound bar; however, Dolby Atmos soundtracks are also fully backward compatible with traditional audio configurations and legacy home entertainment equipment.

One thing I do know is that he apparently likes the technology which I see as a good indication on where he might stand with its use on the BR 4K UHD release (hopefully after receiving his approval). Here's a Dolby promo piece about the use of ATMOS for Alien: Covenant (which, admittedly, is a far different film than BR) -

youtube.com/watch?v=gw3q_d-nMkg

I continue to stand by my previous comments on how BR would benefit from an object based surround format particularly overhead (blimp, spinner and sounds in the Bradbury).

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Seeing as the sound mixers placed the sounds to sound like objects were directly overhead and were limited by the tech of the time your comparison is invalid.

What are you talking about?! The sound mixers made a 2D mix. How can you infer from that that they wanted a 3D mix or what they would have done with one? It's no different from any other 2D mix because it's physically impossible for it to be. Any height cues you're getting from that 2D mix are invented in your own head.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by Brightstar

Why are ther five cuts of the same film?

Because it had a really troubled production.

[mar3o]

I'd be happy with 3 versions on UHD - the original international theatrical version, the 90's director's cut, and the Final Cut. The US theatrical is almost identical to the international version other than a cut or two for gore, and no one should expect the workprint in UHD. So giving us these 3 versions would I think fulfill most fan's appetites for Blade Runner in UHD. Sadly we only get "the version he wants us to see", ignoring the movie as it was originally seen.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I'd be happy with 3 versions on UHD - the original international theatrical version, the 90's director's cut, and the Final Cut. The US theatrical is almost identical to the international version other than a cut or two for gore, and no one should expect the workprint in UHD. So giving us these 3 versions would I think fulfill most fan's appetites for Blade Runner in UHD. Sadly we only get "the version he wants us to see", ignoring the movie as it was originally seen.

I think this is just the UHD equivalent of the individual release of The Final Cut, as also available on Blu-ray and DVD. The 5-cut collection is a separate Blu-ray release that may also see its own UHD equivalent become available at a later date.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Any height cues you're getting from that 2D mix are invented in your own head.

They can simulate height cues by putting out of phase material in the surrounds and since the surrounds in movie theaters are above your head it worked fairly well. Star Trek First Contact had an awesome simulated height cue with the Borg Queen's disembodied voice "floating" above the audience.

With Atmos & object based audio such trickery is no longer needed and much more precise.

Still don't know why you're kvetching over this since will more than likely not be a wholly revisionist remix.

[Lensman]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Because it had a really troubled production.

Not really true although the removal of the narration does fit that claim.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by HDvision

I doubt it. The 4K is the final cut only and will remain that way. You want the other cuts, you got them already. They're not going to rescan them all over again.

Yeah, we wouldn't expect them to actually put any effort into this, do we?

Somehow Close Encounters got a new scan, and all 3 versions I might add. Sure, it's branching, but that's not a problem. All 3 versions will be available in UHD with all the varying scenes in the same quality. Why can't we have that for Blade Runner?

Blade Runner is a hugely influential film. It deserves the best treatment.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think you're right that this is it for a long time to come. It's just sad that this is the case.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Lensman

Not really true although the removal of the narration does fit that claim.

Ridley couldn't seem to figure out what to do with his various scenes in this film, so I think there's some truth to that. Not so much a troubled production maybe, but there are an awful lot of versions out there, the last 2 including an addition we all know vastly changes the entire meaning of the film (for better or worse).

Ridley is a tinkerer, like Lucas. There are two very different cuts of Legend. He tinkered with Alien (for the worse). He cut some of the best stuff out of Prometheus. Mutliple versions of Blade Runner. And worse, like Lucas, he only wants us to see the Final Cut now.

[Ray_Rogers]

Originally Posted by Lensman

Not really true although the removal of the narration does fit that claim.

If you can find it, I highly suggest looking for a copy of Paul M. Sammon's FUTURE NOIR: The Making of BLADE RUNNER. No idea if the latest edition goes into detail of The Final Cut.

Originally Posted by mar3o

Ridley couldn't seem to figure out what to do with his various scenes in this film, so I think there's some truth to that. Not so much a troubled production maybe, but there are an awful lot of versions out there, the last 2 including an addition we all know vastly changes the entire meaning of the film (for better or worse).

Ridley is a tinkerer, like Lucas. There are two very different cuts of Legend. He tinkered with Alien (for the worse). He cut some of the best stuff out of Prometheus. Mutliple versions of Blade Runner. And worse, like Lucas, he only wants us to see the Final Cut now.

There are three cuts of LEGEND, which the domestic USA Universal release has the US Theatrical and Director's Cut while the 20th Century FOX release has the European Cut and the Director's Cut too. 20th Century FOX tinkered with ALIEN first, keep the prior releases of BLADE RUNNER because he isn't like Lucas. Guess what, only The Final Cut was given a full bore restoration while the rest of the 4 official cuts were given 2K scans. Yes I would've loved an exact disc UHD duplicate of the US Cut/International Cut/Director's "Notes" Cut but in properly scanned Native 4K and same goes for the Workprint.
Unlike Lucas, he offered all three versions of KINGDOM OF HEAVEN in the most current Ultimate Edition release. ALIEN has both cuts via seamless branching on the BD. 1492: Conquest of Paradise but this involves importing. THE MARTIAN UHD even has both cuts via seamless branching because they're added scenes instead of a wildly different cut. The Counselor, BLACK HAWK DOWN, AMERICAN GANGSTER, and GLADIATOR all have their respective cuts available.
Could it be he doesn't want to see any upscales of the other cuts of BLADE RUNNER untill they get proper scans besides The Final Cut? You should keep and not sell the prior releases, I have.
No, Ridley Scott isn't in any way like Lucas because of the examples I presented above. He wants fans to see all the officially approved cuts on disc, no matter if it's OOP or not. Hell, there exist fan edits of ALIEN (Extended which has the same pacing of Theatrical with all "Director's" Cut scenes. Will make your knuckles turn white.), PROMETHEUS, LEGEND, and even more.
Yes, your comparison of Ridley Scott to George Lucas is completely and utterly bullshit due to the multiple examples presented above.

My guess is there'll be another UHD down the line with even more features and all cuts.

[jamesdevil]

Originally Posted by HDvision

I doubt it. The 4K is the final cut only and will remain that way. You want the other cuts, you got them already. They're not going to rescan them all over again.

Except that they are OOP now. So people that don't have them have to pay some crappy prices if they want to own them for the first time or again in 2017.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by mar3o

And worse, like Lucas, he only wants us to see the Final Cut now.

Can we please not make the massive leap to this conclusion?

On Blu-ray, you can buy the 5-cut set and you can also buy just The Final Cut.

This is an UHD release of The Final Cut. IT DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE 5-CUT SET ALSO BEING RELEASED ON UHD AT SOME LATER DATE.

For years, Ridley Scott has maintained an interest in making multiple cuts of this movie available to audiences. I don't know why that would change now.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They can simulate height cues by putting out of phase material in the surrounds and since the surrounds in movie theaters are above your head it worked fairly well. Star Trek First Contact had an awesome simulated height cue with the Borg Queen's disembodied voice "floating" above the audience.

With Atmos & object based audio such trickery is no longer needed and much more precise.

Still don't know why you're kvetching over this since will more than likely not be a wholly revisionist remix.

Yep, I've heard 'height' information atop my front speakers more than once recently, it's quite a simple thing to do in mixing terms so it's not being "invented in your own head" as Doc said. (I love ya Doc but you make it so difficult sometimes. )

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I'm wondering if it might be possible some of those extra sound effects were on the 70MM mix.

Up until TFC I believe the 35MM version was the audio master used.

Possible but unlikely IMO, there's a whole layer of crisp-sounding foley that's been added to it.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, I've heard 'height' information atop my front speakers more than once recently, it's quite a simple thing to do in mixing terms so it's not being "invented in your own head" as Doc said. (I love ya Doc but you make it so difficult sometimes. )

An illusion can be created, but you are listening to a 2D mix- no height information is present.

In the same way, one could call it a "safe" assumption that the building appearing next to the spinner should be "behind" it in 3D space and justify the decision to place it there in creating a 3D conversion of the movie. However, this is still an assumption, not the filmmakers' input and, even if that simple assumption is correct, the odds of someone other than the filmmaker electing to place that building at the exact same location on the depth plane as the filmmaker would are astronomically low.

And, again, it's just not a 3D sound movie; it's a 2D sound movie. It ain't Smell-o-vision, either.

[bigbadwoppet]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

For me there are different reasons I prefer the international cut.

- Over the US theatrical because of the extra violence.
- Over the director's cut because of the extra violence, I believe that the added material in the DC removes ambiguity limiting the possibilities of the narrative and I feel like the voiceover makes the world seem bigger.
- Over the final cut for the same reasons as the DC and for digital revisionisms.

It's not like Blade Runner is ruined in any of the different cuts (though I've no interest in watching a 1982 movie augmented by digital tools and reshoots in 2007), I just have a version I prefer for specific reasons. If I believed that the happy ending was a legitimately happy ending I would prefer the DC but I don't see a big problem with them exiting the elevator and driving off into the unknown. I don't think it removes doubt and uncertainty about their future to show them driving down a road, and I certainly don't believe that Deckard is a reliable narrator or that Tyrell's words to Deckard as related in the ending VO are reliably the truth. Writing all this out and thinking about it a bit I would say that the landscape of the ending is incongruous and inappropriate, and that the movie is better without it. I suppose if the DC had simply removed the VO and the ending and had the extra violence it would be a more pure tossup between the DC with me likely leaning toward the DC, but it made changes beyond that which I feel are more detrimental to the experience than the ending is.

I understand that that's not a popular reading of the film and the different cuts but it's the one I arrived at. Even with my preference for the IC I would absolutely buy a better presentation of the theatrical or director's cuts, as I feel that on the whole the differences between them are relatively minor. It's a shame that as the details come out the outlook for getting such an upgrade doesn't look very good right now. It's frustrating that as much as the movie was hampered by being one of the first DVDs out of the gate it's also hampered by being an early Blu-ray (VC-1 and lossy audio). Can't complain too much as the Blu-ray of the IC looks a hell of a lot better than the Criterion LD.

Obviously the 1982 international cut is better than the US cut. The violence wasn't added to it, it was removed from the US cut to get an R-rating.

Whenever there's a more violent international cut, this one is closer to the filmaker's original edit.