Blade Runner 4K UHD (1982)

[NotASpeckOfCereal]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

As far as I can tell it only happens on this one extended sequence, from when Deckard is handed back the snake scale until he's done with Ben Hassan. It's possible it was some kind of error from the mouth replacement, maybe they were trying to blur something but they didn't have the masks set correctly and the effect was accidentally applied to the whole image and the entire length of the shot.

That sequence to me has always been the worse part of the film in respect to condition (PQ, audio sync, etc.). This is the best it has ever been and I don't expect it to get better, so I'm happy.

Chris

[Geoff D]

The extended start of the animoid row sequence is a lift from the workprint, literally, so they did some managing of the grain to make it blend better. That the Abdul Ben Hassan scene follows so soon after, inclusive of its own VFX anomalies, makes me think that they might've decided to fudge the whole sequence to even it out somewhat.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The extended start of the animoid row sequence is a lift from the workprint, literally, so they did some managing of the grain to make it blend better. That the Abdul Ben Hassan scene follows so soon after, inclusive of its own VFX anomalies, makes me think that they might've decided to fudge the whole sequence to even it out somewhat.

I initially thought it might be something like that, but it doesn't really make any sense because it's not grain management as much as outright blurring–in fact the grain is even worse now when it's just a noisy field of huge blurry blobs–and it doesn't explain the selective application at all.

The one thing I thought of is that it was an incredibly poor and lazy way to get rid of all the white specks in the sequence. It seems to have been applied mostly to the brighter parts of the image where an automatic algorithm perhaps had trouble identifying the similarly bright specks, so the approach may have been to just blur the shit out of everything.

Also I don't believe the sequence was lifted from the workprint because the 2.20:1 70mm blow-up (which supposedly is the only known version left) would have been (and indeed is) cropped on the sides, whereas on the FC the sequence is the full width of the 35mm.

[Vangeli]

There restoration needs a restoration, is all.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

I initially thought it might be something like that, but it doesn't really make any sense because it's not grain management as much as outright blurring–in fact the grain is even worse now when it's just a noisy field of huge blurry blobs–and it doesn't explain the selective application at all.

The one thing I thought of is that it was an incredibly poor and lazy way to get rid of all the white specks in the sequence. It seems to have been applied mostly to the brighter parts of the image where an automatic algorithm perhaps had trouble identifying the similarly bright specks, so the approach may have been to just blur the shit out of everything.

Also I don't believe the sequence was lifted from the workprint because the 2.20:1 70mm blow-up (which supposedly is the only known version left) would have been (and indeed is) cropped on the sides, whereas on the FC the sequence is the full width of the 35mm.

I'm only going off the AC article, I'll dig out the specifics later.

[curtw]

First of all, please excuse me if this has already been discussed. I did a forum search, but did not find any applicable posts. Would be just as happy for somebody to point me there if this discussion already exists

Now, on to the question itself. I got the disc on release day, but have *just* upgraded to an HDR- and DV-compatible TV.

Clearly, the disc is HDR, and I see that the iTunes stream is DV. Is one of these presentations superior to the other? And if so, how and why?

I did watch the opening credits for both versions, and was stunned by just how BLACK they are in the HDR disc. On my TV in darkened room, I cannot tell the difference in blackness between the letterbox bars and the text background. I know that Dolby Vision is theoretically superior (12-bit, and modifiable on a per-scene basis), but it's really obvious that the darkest background in the credits is not pure black.

Any thoughts/opinions? I'd rather not go through a scene-by-scene examination/comparison if somebody else has already done it.

If it matters, here's my hardware list...
TV: LG OLED65C6P, all "advanced" and picture settings except Cinema Mode OFF.
UHD Player: Philips BDP7501
Streaming Player: Apple TV 4K

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by curtw

First of all, please excuse me if this has already been discussed. I did a forum search, but did not find any applicable posts. Would be just as happy for somebody to point me there if this discussion already exists

Now, on to the question itself. I got the disc on release day, but have *just* upgraded to an HDR- and DV-compatible TV.

Clearly, the disc is HDR, and I see that the iTunes stream is DV. Is one of these presentations superior to the other? And if so, how and why?

I did watch the opening credits for both versions, and was stunned by just how BLACK they are in the HDR disc. On my TV in darkened room, I cannot tell the difference in blackness between the letterbox bars and the text background. I know that Dolby Vision is theoretically superior (12-bit, and modifiable on a per-scene basis), but it's really obvious that the darkest background in the credits is not pure black.

Any thoughts/opinions? I'd rather not go through a scene-by-scene examination/comparison if somebody else has already done it.

If it matters, here's my hardware list...
TV: LG OLED65C6P, all "advanced" and picture settings except Cinema Mode OFF.
UHD Player: Philips BDP7501
Streaming Player: Apple TV 4K

HDR10 is better than Dolby Vision. It's that simple.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

[curtw]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

HDR10 is better than Dolby Vision. It's that simple.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

Would you mind expanding on that with an explanation of why? This article seems pretty convincing that it could go either way, depending on the care with which the encoding is done.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

HDR10 is better than Dolby Vision. It's that simple.

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Jeez dude, that's some Damascene conversion you've undergone.

[OI8T12]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

HDR10 is better than Dolby Vision. It's that simple.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

Man, you really changed your tune. You had such a big hard on for it after seeing it one time. You had it in your avatar, you bragged about it your signature, you had it before you even knew what it really was. You bought into the hype from reading about it.

It's still in it's early stage, so it's not over yet.

[2pacalypsenow]

Watched this movie the other night for the first time.

Pretty interesting movie.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm only going off the AC article, I'll dig out the specifics later.

Here it is from AC Dec '07, they don't mention the workprint specifically for the lift of the animoid row extension but "a" print, so I was wrong about it coming off the workprint, spot on Pyoko. Point still stands about them doing something to the grain, however:

“There was one section that had to come off a print because they couldn’t find the original negative, and they wanted to extend a scene — the animal mart scene with Deckard,” she [colourist Jill Bogdanowicz] continues. “We had to degrain that little section from that print a bit to be able to match it with the original negative. One of the unicorn shots had to come from a print as well. Otherwise, because we’re at 4K resolution, we’re getting the finest grain we can, so we haven’t had to deal with any grain reduction off the original negative.”

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Jeez dude, that's some Damascene conversion you've undergone.

I saw the light...or in this case, the elevated blacks

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[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by OI8T12

Man, you really changed your tune. You had such a big hard on for it after seeing it one time. You had it in your avatar, you bragged about it your signature, you had it before you even knew what it really was. You bought into the hype from reading about it.

It's still in it's early stage, so it's not over yet.

I feel like a boyfriend who's been done wrong by the girl he was in love with and now he finds nothing better to do with his time than bragging about his new date and down talking his ex

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

I saw the light...or in this case, the elevated blacks

You may want to reserve judgment- when DV has its ducks in a row, it's capable of better performance than HDR-10... and it may not be too long before those canards are quacking in perfect harmony.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

I feel like a boyfriend who's been done wrong by the girl he was in love with and now he finds nothing better to do with his time than bragging about his new date and down talking his ex

Oooh, you're so catty. I see a certain kitten still knows how to scratch!

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

You may want to reserve judgment- when DV has its ducks in a row, it's capable of better performance than HDR-10... and it may not be too long before those canards are quacking in perfect harmony.

They sure are making it hard work though. The protracted roll out of DV discs, this ongoing black levels issue, some people getting blank screens or pink screens only on certain DV discs, Sony's special profile that no-one thought to check would actually work with the ONE disc player on the market that could do DV (the LG wasn't officially enabled (again) at that point) etc.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

You may want to reserve judgment- when DV has its ducks in a row, it's capable of better performance than HDR-10... and it may not be too long before those canards are quacking in perfect harmony.

We were ready for Dolby Vision, but was Dolby Vision ready for us?


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[Geoff D]

Dude. That's like, profound. Sums the situation up perfectly too.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Oooh, you're so catty. I see a certain kitten still knows how to scratch!





They sure are making it hard work though. The protracted roll out of DV discs, this ongoing black levels issue, some people getting blank screens or pink screens only on certain DV discs, Sony's special profile that no-one thought to check would actually work with the ONE disc player on the market that could do DV (the LG wasn't officially enabled (again) at that point) etc.

If there is one think that ticks us-Oled owners-off, is above 0% black.

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[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

We were ready for Dolby Vision, but was Dolby Vision ready for us?

Sometimes that's how it goes. Blu-ray launched before it was ready for prime time, too, but it lived up to its potential to be superior in the long-run.