4K Movies Releases

[Penton-Man]

Future outlook article about things (4K enhancements) we have been discussing for months here on this forum in far greater detail but, possibly difficult to absorb. The following recent article geared more toward hobbyists is probably more reader friendly for new membership as well as those who need to catch-up-to-speed…. http://gigaom.com/2013/12/29/whats-next-for-ultra-hd/

Written by this same Sean (time stamp ~ 34 min of the NAB presentation in the bright cove clip - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...an#post8070327 )

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As, an aside, fairly recent testing has confirmed the previously held consumer notion that frame grabs (still frames) significantly underestimate the quality of a video sequence as a whole. See…. “3. SUBJECTIVE STUDY OF SPATIAL AND TEMPORAL VIDEO QUALITY”, here - https://ece.uwaterloo.ca/~z70wang/pu...ons/vpqm13.pdf

Interesting stuff as always, Mr P. Even in those tiny frame grabs we can see that the HEVC image is noticeably blockier, yet in motion the H.264 image was perceived to have more artefacts. Still, it's hardly breaking news to say that viewing an image in motion is more important than looking at still frames. I love a bit of screenshot shenanigans, but it's never the be-all and end-all. And with HEVC's reported efficacy when dealing with temporal artefacts, that might be the nail in the coffin for the dark art of screenshot science.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

that might be the nail in the coffin for the dark art of screenshot science.

I hope not, because I’m a little ashamed to admit that when things get boring, I, too, enjoy

Originally Posted by Geoff D

a bit of screenshot shenanigans

[Penton-Man]

Note to Esox, 3 days after this public pondering…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...er#post8579389

Today, out comes another bone - http://www.insideci.co.uk/articles/i...f-blu-ray.aspx

Perhaps you should elucidate to other readers what you think this phrase really means….“We need to get it right” for I have no public comment.

And Paul.R.S, what is your reaction to “We view streaming as very complimentary to the Blu-ray experience.”

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

what is your reaction to “We view streaming as very complimentary to the Blu-ray experience.”

Or, for that matter, what's the reaction to that statement by other readers here who have participated in the streaming discussions on this and other threads.

Perhaps our viewpoint on the matter is flawed.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Note to Esox, 3 days after this public pondering…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...er#post8579389

Today, out comes another bone - http://www.insideci.co.uk/articles/i...f-blu-ray.aspx

Hmm. I seem to recall Marty Gordon saying very similar things about 4K Blu-ray at CES 2013; we can only hope that they're a bit further along with the proposition some 12 months later.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Note to Esox, 3 days after this public pondering…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...er#post8579389

Today, out comes another bone - http://www.insideci.co.uk/articles/i...f-blu-ray.aspx

Perhaps you should elucidate to other readers what you think this phrase really means….“We need to get it right” for I have no public comment.

Thanks for posting that. Man I miss the old days. Seems the old days the BDA used to give it to us straight. As Paul noted, this "new" guy from the BDA was saying the same thing back at CES Jan 2013. Now a year later, we have nothing. Nothing even AFTER the September "announcement" non-announcement of "we're announcing 4k BD soon, we hope before the end of the year."

What is taking so long? This whole we "need to get it right" is very simple in my eyes, only there was two words missing. We "need to get it right FOR US". By that I mean everyone involved is trying to extract maximum benefit out of the next-gen Blu-Ray. One could call this politics; one could also acting on behalf of their shareholders. Either way, we have ZERO product, and seemingly no announcement, imminent.

As far as streaming being complimentary...thats a smoke screen. But hey, what do I know. My biggest concern is that while the BDA goes in circles, 4K streaming seems to have a roadmap. At this point, I think we'll be lucky if we have any 4K BD product by the end of 2014. That puts it at a huge disadvantage in my opinion since 2014 is supposed to be the proliferation/boom of 4K TVs. BD 4K needs to have product launched by July/Aug 2014 IMHO.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmm. I seem to recall Marty Gordon saying very similar things about 4K Blu-ray at CES 2013; we can only hope that they're a bit further along with the proposition some 12 months later.

It will be bad if after year(s) of discussion amongst the stakeholders, 4K Blu-ray only yields a marginal upgrade in technical parameters compared to 1080p Blu-ray, for then I think many will say *it took them that long to give us this *…..kind of like the reaction was to the HDMI 2.0 specs.

I mean no disrespect to the interviewer Steve May because his piece seems of no less value than that of the interviews routinely churned out by other consumer electronics bloggers, talk radio hosts, reporters, journalists (whatever is their preferred job description) but I really wish these guys would up-their-game in 2014 and get a little *Mike Wallace-style* - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/saying-f...ce-26-04-2012/ rather than essentially being yes-men news outlets for some spokespersons representing an association or company.

I mean if Marty is going to claim “"After all, if you're going to enhance the format, then really enhance the format, from dynamic range to bitrates and sound-quality. Blu-ray is the perfect format for 4K Ultra HD."

Then challenge him and try to get some real newsworthy information rather than same-old, same-old.

For example…Steve to Marty –
”Marty, with such high goals intended for the 4K Blu-ray format can you assure our readers that eventually when 4K BD launches, consumers will, at the very least, get the most basic upgrade to make a real difference In picture quality, namely 10 bit 4:2:2 movies?....or how ‘bout just 10 bit period?”

Or, since “dynamic range” was floated. Steve to Marty…
“Marty, do you see the announcement of Sony and Panasonic ending their partnership for producing OLED tvs (http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/1...0K40P720131225) making the matter of adding ‘dynamic range’ as an enhancement to 4K Blu-ray rather moot at this juncture…if you plan on launching 4K Blu-ray sometime within the next 5 years or so”.

This is a shout-out to consumer electronics reporters (especially with CES 2014 approaching very soon) - ENOUGH with essentially being transcriptionists for company/association spokespersons who talk a lot but say very little of substance. Do your homework and ask more challenging questions!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Thanks for posting that. Man I miss the old days. Seems the old days the BDA used to give it to us straight. As Paul noted, this "new" guy from the BDA was saying the same thing back at CES Jan 2013. Now a year later, we have nothing. Nothing even AFTER the September "announcement" non-announcement of "we're announcing 4k BD soon, we hope before the end of the year."

What is taking so long? This whole we "need to get it right" is very simple in my eyes, only there was two words missing. We "need to get it right FOR US". By that I mean everyone involved is trying to extract maximum benefit out of the next-gen Blu-Ray. One could call this politics; one could also acting on behalf of their shareholders. Either way, we have ZERO product, and seemingly no announcement, imminent.

Yup to all the above.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Esox50

As far as streaming being complimentary...thats a smoke screen. But hey, what do I know.

I’ve come around. When peoples’ dogs crap on my lawn and the owners don’t clean-up after them, I should view it as complimenting my gardener’s fertilizing efforts, even when I inadvertently step in it.

[Penton-Man]

One redeeming thing is

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I do own Netflix stock

And for that I am happy ….http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...-silver-667975

[vargo]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I love a bit of screenshot shenanigans, but it's never the be-all and end-all.

Of course, on sites like Bluray.com, "screenshot shennanigans" are rarely discussions in relation to compression. Most times it is to show the upgrade from one edition to the next, or to show glaring issues like DNR or green tint. In these cases a screenshot is a perfectly adequate way of illustrating or disucssing the point.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by vargo

Of course, on sites like Bluray.com, "screenshot shennanigans" are rarely discussions in relation to compression. Most times it is to show the upgrade from one edition to the next, or to show glaring issues like DNR or green tint. In these cases a screenshot is a perfectly adequate way of illustrating or disucssing the point.

Sure, I didn't say otherwise (though colour can still be contentious if the monitor isn't calibrated properly). But re: compression in stills, people usually point it out more often than not if there is an appreciable difference, especially when dealing with an upgrade from MPEG-2 to AVC. The Predator UHE thread is rife with that discussion at this very moment, and that's an MPEG-2 title which looks quite blocky in static frames but (IMO) is suitably film-like-ish in motion. Heck, even the presence of what looks like proper grain in still frames isn't always a home run, as without seeing it in motion there's no way of telling if it's the genuine article or whether it's sluggish replacement grain added after the fact.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I do own Netflix stock

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And for that I am happy ….http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...-silver-667975

I’m also happy to notice today that I won a substantial bet with another Blu-ray.com member in which I bet him that this thread would break the 300,000 viewer barrier by Jan.1st 2014…..which it has today, or perhaps last night?

But I try to put everything in perspective with humility as over 10 million views with this YouTube video since only Dec. 26th is truly awe-inspiring (the audio is NSFW) –

BEST NEWS BLOOPERS 2013 - YouTube

On that note ^, I wish everyone a happy, healthy, humorous and prosperous New Year!

[Steedeel]

Hi guys,happy new year.

Interesting to read of netflix and the 4k thing. I read today that they are offering a SD only subscription in the future for those that want it, at a lower price. That seems to go against leading edge 4k streaming and cater more for the smartphone generation. I find it baffling but I wonder if my fears and predictions are becoming truer by the month. If this takes off it will only encourage more SD streaming directly to smartphones etc.. I can't imagine anyone wanting to watch SD streaming on a 4K set.

[Steedeel]

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/new...e-theaters.php

Just read this while reading one of my bookmarked film sites. This guy (in my opinion) seems to have the same fears I do about smartphone, low quality future. I have insisted all along (my view) that streaming represents the lowest form of video and as the masses seem to love cheap and low quality that seems to be a possible future direction.

Regardless, let's hope a 4k format is brought to the market as consumers need to be exposed to the high quality it represents before all these streaming services start offering 3 dollars a month standard def streaming to portable devices.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Hi guys,happy new year.

Good to see you back and the same to you . I hope you enjoyed your holiday. Newest news to return to here is that officially (and for Blu-ray fans you can’t get much more official than the Blu-ray Disc Association), officially, the BDA views 4K streaming as "complimentary" to 4K Blu-rays.

With said news, I suggest you take 2-4 teaspoons of Maalox or Mylanta or whatever Aluminum/Magnesium antacid they have there at your pharmacy in the U.K., repeat if needed, no more than 4 times in a 24 hr. period and call me if there is no relief.

As to my Premier League football following, I’m up to about the 70 min. mark of the Chelsea vs Liverpool match (whatever day that occurred). Don’t tell me the final score but did you watch it on TV and, if so, did you see how many advertisements Samsung had for their OLED tvs? Wow! Millions must have watched that match and seen OLED repeatedly advertised on those touchline billboards.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

the smartphone generation.

Luckily, my younger family members have not succumbed to Einstein’s prediction, as I’ve noticed others in our society out in public have….https://twitter.com/PicturesEarth/st...192448/photo/1

[Penton-Man]

Shoot, now that I’ve quoted Einstein, I’m guess I’m compelled to make an advanced thought type of post. Give me a few minutes. I’m starting to get a caffeine jolt which always helps.

[Penton-Man]

Another thought-provoking question not just to our fine Blu-ray.com members but also to

consumer electronics bloggers, talk radio hosts, reporters, journalists (whatever is their preferred job description)

Sooooo, other than justifiably wished for basic video upgrades to a 4K Blu-ray format like 10 bit bit depth distribution spec, the question is, regarding more advanced technological enhancements to general 4k TV watching (not cinema content, per se)….what do folks envision in their crystal balls as to having the best chance of arriving the soonest to consumer displays in peoples’ homes?

A. HDR (high dynamic range, see previous posts back from several days to months ago)
B. HFR (meaning at least 100/120 fps capture and distribution, not HFR as in Hobbit (only 48fps)

or

C. WCG (wide color gamut, i.e. B.T.2020 which represents Sap’s favorite primary color coordinates… https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...re#post6666854

Of those listed ^, whatcha think will come first as a consumer product? Especially once 4K sales eventually disappoint, which in time they will, and TV manufacturers are forced to upgrade basic 4K. I mean they’ll all eventually come someday, in some form, because we’re not stuck with low dynamic range 60fps Rec.709 parameter consumer content and display forever....although some videophiles already with upgrade fatigue might hope so.

It’s not an easy question, but the difficult ones are often the best. I'm not sure there is a 'right' answer because things can always change but given knowledge of current hurdles of implementation to all these picture quality enhancements, I think there is a 'best' guess.