Sorry about posting here but I cannot post a new message!
I just received starter kit and it mentions if I have 65837 TV I do not need adapter, just emitter.
Is this true?
If so all would have to do is connect emitter to TV?
Does emitter have to be in front of the TV or can it be to the right of it 1.5 feet but still facing users?
The adapter is if you own a Blu-ray player that does not offer checkerboard output. If you are using a 3-D Blu-ray player with checkerboard output, like Panasonic Blu-ray players then you should only need to connect the 3-D IR Emitter to the back of the TV.
If you are using a IR Emitter then the emitter needs to be in a location that offers line of sight. For best results the adapter may need to be placed up high in the room. You could try placing the adapter toward the right of the TV and it may work ok. You may have to move the IR emitter around to get a good angle.
All the Mitsubishi 3-D ready displays are 120Hz with 3:2 pulldown for both 2-D and 3-D sources. Its great that back in 2009 Mitsubishi had some 3-D ready displays on the market. You will get half the video resolution in 3-D mode with the Mitsubishi instead of full 3-D 1080P.
Quick question, are there any 2D plasmas currently on the market that offer 24p at 96hz?
Back on October 21st 2010 I discontinued updating the list of 2-D displays that properly display 1080p/24 signals at multiplies of the original frame rate because it was too time consuming with all the under $1,000 LCD displays at Walmart and Best Buy that offered 5:5 pulldown 120Hz modes.
From time to time I do post some information in this thread about new displays but I no longer maintain an up to date list for 2-D displays because there are too many on the market now. I do maintain a list of 3-D projectors that properly display 3-D signals at 144fps but there are no flat screens in production yet with the 144fps feature. https://forum.blu-ray.com/4623907-post960.html
Answer to your question: There are many 2-D LCD screens on the market that properly display 1080p/24 signals at 120Hz or 240Hz. Here is information on a low cost 32 inch LCD screen with LED backlighting for under $450. https://forum.blu-ray.com/4585431-post955.html
In terms of plasma displays I did a quick search on Panasonic's and Samsung’s website and I did not see any 2-D models that offer the 96Hz refresh mode. LG high-end plasmas are all 48Hz last time I researched the issue.If you one want a 72Hz or 96Hz plasma that is 2-D only then you will need try and find an old model.
You could go with a LCD screen with LED backlighting and get a 2-D feature with 120Hz or 240HZ. If you really want 96Hz in a plasma then you are going to need to purchase select new models of 2011 Samsung or 2011 Panasonic plasmas with the 3-D feature. Even though there is no 144fps 3-D flat panel on the market yet and even though you might not like 3-D, you don’t have to use the 3-D feature. You could always purchase a 3-D plasma and just use the 2-D feature on it. Some of the 3-D plasmas properly display 2-D material at 96Hz but offer 120Hz with 3:2 pulldown for each eye in 3-D mode.
There is no perfect display. Here is a link to an October 2010 Widescreen Review magazine review that mentioned that the Panasonic TC-P50VT25 at 96Hz produced contouring artifacts and flickering: https://forum.blu-ray.com/3852216-post920.html
The adapter is if you own a Blu-ray player that does not offer checkerboard output. If you are using a 3-D Blu-ray player with checkerboard output, like Panasonic Blu-ray players then you should only need to connect the 3-D IR Emitter to the back of the TV.
If you are using a IR Emitter then the emitter needs to be in a location that offers line of sight. For best results the adapter may need to be placed up high in the room. You could try placing the adapter toward the right of the TV and it may work ok. You may have to move the IR emitter around to get a good angle.
All the Mitsubishi 3-D ready displays are 120Hz with 3:2 pulldown for both 2-D and 3-D sources. Its great that back in 2009 Mitsubishi had some 3-D ready displays on the market. You will get half the video resolution in 3-D mode with the Mitsubishi instead of full 3-D 1080P.
Thanks for the information. I have on order Panasonic BDT-310. I should only need emitter. I bought this one due to two HDMI outputs. I do not want to change my receiver for new HDMI.
I do have comcast and they have two channels with 3D. Will they work once I have system put together? I like idea of not needing adapter box since now I will only need to put small hole for emitter into wall above TV and not play game of emitter on right wide of TV where my equipment is located.
Thanks for the information. I have on order Panasonic BDT-310. I should only need emitter. I bought this one due to two HDMI outputs. I do not want to change my receiver for new HDMI.
I do have comcast and they have two channels with 3D. Will they work once I have system put together? I like idea of not needing adapter box since now I will only need to put small hole for emitter into wall above TV and not play game of emitter on right wide of TV where my equipment is located.
When watching Blu-rays on your Mitsubishi you will not need an adapter since the Panasonic 3-D Blu-ray players offers checkerboard format option.
You will need to use the Mitsubishi adapter for just about every other 3-D source. For example some game consoles use frame packing technology. The adapter will convert frame packed 3-D signals to checkerboard format. Most cable boxes and satellite receiver’s use side by side or top bottom technology for 3-D. You will need an adapter to convert those formats to checkerboard format.
To simplify things the adapter is needed for any 3-D source that does not offer a checkerboard output option. Only a select few Blu-ray players on the market that I am aware of offer checkerboard output.
When watching Blu-rays on your Mitsubishi you will not need an adapter since the Panasonic 3-D Blu-ray players offers checkerboard format option.
You will need to use the Mitsubishi adapter for just about every other 3-D source. For example some game consoles use frame packing technology. The adapter will convert frame packed 3-D signals to checkerboard format. Most cable boxes and satellite receiver’s use side by side or top bottom technology for 3-D. You will need an adapter to convert those formats to checkerboard format.
To simplify things the adapter is needed for any 3-D source that does not offer a checkerboard output option. Only a select few Blu-ray players on the market that I am aware of offer checkerboard output.
If I only intend on watching 3D blu-ray I just hook up one HDMI to receiver and one to TV (correct?). Both HDMI's are on new BDT-310, is my understanding.
Since my comcast goes through my receiver would there be a way, using adapter, to watch 3D? If so how would I hook up. Like I said my receiver does not have HDMI 4.
If I only intend on watching 3D blu-ray I just hook up one HDMI to receiver and one to TV (correct?). Both HDMI's are on new BDT-310, is my understanding.
Since my comcast goes through my receiver would there be a way, using adapter, to watch 3D? If so how would I hook up. Like I said my receiver does not have HDMI 4.
Since your receiver is not HDMI 1.4a or HDMI 1.4 then yes you need to connect one HDMI output from the Blu-ray player to the TV for video and the other HDMI audio output to the surround sound receiver.
If one wanted to use their A/V receiver as a video switcher for Blu-ray 3-D then one needs to own a A/V receiver with HDMI 1.4 or later. If one wants to use their A/V receiver as a video switcher with broadcast, satellite, and cable 3-D sources then HDMI 1.4a is needed.
So unless you purchase a new HDMI 1.4a receiver you are not going to be able to run your HDMI output on the Cable Box to the older A/V receiver. You will need to connect the cable box up to the Mitsubishi adapter and then the adapter connects directly to the TV. Some people with Mitsubishi TV’s own three 3D adapters for three HDMI inputs. One adapter for a Blu-ray player that does not offer checkerboard output, second adapter is for a cable box that offers 3-D, the third adapter is for a video game system with 3-D output. It sounds like your setup is only going to need only one adapter.
People that own the older 3-D ready Mitsubishi displays are able to use one adapter for multiply devices with a HDMI 1.4a receiver in theory if they place the adapter on the A/V receivers HDMI 1.4 output.
The HDMI 1.4a receiver requirements for all existing 3-D formats is only a requirement 99% of the time. There is a possibility that maybe a Playstation 3 with HDMI 1.3 might be able to pass the 3-D signal threw an older HDMI 1.3 receiver that offers passive HDMI switching instead of active switching. Also a HDMI 1.3 cable box or satellite receiver that outputs a 3-D signal might allow some rare brands and models of HDMI 1.3 A/V receivers to pass the 3-D signal if the HDMI switching is passive instead of active. In generally 99% of the time you are going to need a HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver to support all the 3-D formats from Blu-ray and broadcast sources. You can always try using your older receiver but it most likely is not going to work at all when it sees the 3-D signal.
“As usual we found the 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable.”
Panasonic TC-P50GT30 50 inches (No 96Hz setting)
Panasonic TC-P55GT30 55 inches (No 96Hz setting)
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 60 inches (No 96Hz setting)
Panasonic TC-P65GT30 65 inches (No 96Hz setting)
It’s the year 2011 and Panasonic is still making new plasma models with the 48Hz mode that flickers. CNET mentioned the GT30 series 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable. I understand that most people do not own a Blu-ray player yet and they will leave the GT30 in the 60Hz mode which has no flicker. The purpose of a 1080p/24 signal from a Blu-ray player is to bypass the 60Hz 3:2 pulldown setting on a flat screen and offer a flicker free presentation at 72Hz, 96HZ, or higher multiplies of 24. It is puzzling why Panasonic even offers a 48Hz setting. The TC-P55GT30 has a list price of $2,199.95, for that price a 96Hz menu setting would be ideal. The only Panasonic plasmas that offer the 96Hz setting are the flagship models.
Hopefully future 2012 Panasonic models will drop the 48Hz mode and offer 96Hz for 2-D material. Maybe one day Panasonic hopefully will start offering a 144Hz Cinema quality 3-D mode. The black levels on the 2011 Panasonic’s still do not match the black levels of a discontinued 2008 Pioneer Kuro (Also every Pioneer 1080P plasma model from 2006-2008 refreshed 1080p/24 source material at 72Hz with no flicker).
The Panasonic TC-P50GT30 and TC-P55GT30 manual even mentions that flicker might be seen at 48Hz. The CNET review confirmed there is no 96Hz setting but Panasonic messed up and the manual mentions that there is a 96Hz mode when in reality the GT30 only has a 60Hz and 48Hz setting.
Quote from page 51 in the Panasonic manual:
“96Hz/48Hz: Achieves more cinematic playback by reproducing
the movie contents at 2 or 4 times the speed of 24 frames per
second. If flicker is seen using 48Hz, please use 60Hz or 96Hz.” http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TCP50GT30.PDF
Select quotes from the CNET review on the Panasonic TC-P55GT30 series:
“As usual we found the 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable.”
“Picture quality flaws include subtly fluctuating black and gray levels as well as inaccurate gamma that washes out shadows somewhat.”
Vizio and some other flat screen manufactories in late 2011 or sometime in 2012 might start offering 21:9 ratio TV’s in order to properly show 2.37:1 Blu-ray movies without black bars. On a 21:9 ratio TV a 2.35:1 movie will still have very small black bars on the sides of the screen and 2.40:1 movies will have very small black bars above and below the image. Standard 1.85:1 movies will have black bars on the sides of a 21:9 display. When one plays a native 1.78:1 Blu-ray movie on a 16:9 1080P flat screen HDTV there is no black bars and the resolution is true 1920 X 1080. But when one plays a native 2:35:1 movie on a 1080P flat screen with a 16:9 ratio the resolution is only 1920 x 817. So 1.78:1 movies on Blu-ray discs have true 1920 X 1080 resolution but if the movie is native 2.35:1 the Blu-ray format only offers a 1920 X 817 resolution (The black bars on a 16:9 display take up 263 lines of the horizontal pixel count). On the Blu-ray format specs there is no anamorphic 2.35:1 mode or 2.37:1 mode that will produce the extra resolution of wider screen formats. So the 71 inch Vizio and other 21:9 HDTV’s with a native pixel array of 2560 X 1080 will need to up convert the resolution of a 2.35:1 Blu-ray movie that only contains a 1920 X 817 pixel count.
Quotes
“…Vizio fully intends to bring its Cinemawide HDTV models to the US in three screen sizes—50, 58, and 71 inches (diagonal).”
“Vizio’s market research has identified three reasons that many viewers will like a 21:9 TV. First, it displays 2.35:1 movies without those annoying letterbox bars above and below the image. To be precise, the pixel array is 2560x1080, which translates to 2.37:1, so 2.35:1 movies will have very slim black bars on the sides of the image, while 2.40:1 movies will have very thin black bars above and below. This also means that 2.35:1 movies from Blu-ray will have to be upscaled from their native 1920x817 resolution, which might or might not result in visible artifacts. And don't forget that 1.85:1 movies will have black bars on the sides of the image.”
There are so many new 3-D display technologies in both the professional 3-D theaters and in the 3-D consumer market. It is so much information with so much variation of similar technologies that it is easy for both professionals in the 3-D industry and consumers to become confused.
Currently the existing passive 3D glasses that are used in the new and coming soon LG, Vizio, and Toshiba models have the polarizer filter built into the face of the flat screen which results in only each eye seeing half of the resolution.
In the future Samsung in the year 2012 or beyond might make a flat panel screen that offers passive glasses with full 1080P resolution for each eye using the RealD technology. In the movie theater RealD technology uses a single 2K projector with a polarity modulator to offer true 2K resolution for both eyes. In the theater a DLP projector that is configured for RealD technology always triple flashes the 48fps 3-D source to offer a flicker free 144fps performance on the screen. Hopefully Samsung one day will make a 144Hz true 3-D 1080P plasma display that uses active or passive glasses so consumers can experience 3-D quality like the Cinema.
The RDZ 3D technology places 3-D active shutter glass technology inside the LCD screen with no reduction in 2-D quality. Then cheap passive glasses will be able to be used with 1080P resolution for both eyes. Hopefully the new joint Samsung and RealD consumer technology will offer true 144fps (72fps for each eye) just like in the movie theaters.
RealD systems can use either active or passive glasses depending on configuration and type of display technology.
The following are some references:
quote
“The drawback: The loss of resolution with the passive glasses was noticeable. Active-shutter glasses can deliver a full 1080p picture to both eyes, while the passive glasses lose half the vertical resolution.”
“the TV simply discards the undisplayed lines and each eye sees a resolution of only 1920x540 pixels.”
“Tom Norton is currently reviewing the LG 55LW5600, a 120Hz passive-3D LCD TV, for Home Theater. In his communication with the company, an LG engineer in Korea explained that each eye actually sees the full 1920x1080 resolution, but not all at the same time. In the following discussion, keep in mind the difference between the lines of information—on a 3D Blu-ray, the visual information for each eye includes 1080 lines—and the lines on the display itself. Also, the TV converts 24 frames per second on the disc to 60fps.”
“I don't know if other manufacturers, such as Vizio and Toshiba, display the left and right images in this way. If so, it does seem to explain why the image on passive-3D LCD TVs looks somewhat sharper than I would expect if each eye was seeing only 1920x540.”
“With active-shutter glasses, each eye takes turns looking at the screen. But when they do, they see all 1080 lines of high-definition crispness. With passive glasses, the screen's pixels are split between each eye, meaning the resolution is knocked down to 540 lines per eye.
But as with all evolving technology, no flaw need be taken for granted. RealD (the same company that provides the 3D tech for many movie theaters and studios) has teamed up with Samsung to deliver a set that has it both ways—passive glasses and full high-definition”
“Full Resolution 3D Video with No Reduction of 2D Image Quality Compatible with the Same 3D Eyewear Used in RealD 3D-Equipped Theatres Around the World”
“Unlike patterned retarder based 3D display technologies that cut resolution in half or diminish brightness, RDZ 3D display technology delivers full resolution high definition 3D images by adopting active shutter technology on the display. Based on RealD technology used in many of the world’s 3D-equipped motion picture theatres today, RDZ displays are also 2D compatible, resulting in no reduction of image quality in 2D mode.”
The many different 3-D Digital Cinema technologies in use today
The amazing Digital IMAX and Sony 4K SXRD RealD system can flash a 24fps image on the screen with no flicker
Native 24fps 2-D 70mm and 35mm film projectors have an unwatchable flicker on the screen when the image is flashed on the screen at 24fps(So 24fps is never used with film projectors). Old film projectors show an image on the screen half the time and the other half of the time black is shown. So to get rid of the unwatchable flicker at 24fps a film projector will double flash the 24fps 2-D image at 48fps. At 48fps normally most people do not see a flicker on an old film projector, those that do see a very small flicker at 48fps normally considered the experience a Cinematic film quality experience. Several decades later some projectors would triple flash the movie on the screen at 72fps. With the advancements in Digital Cinema projector technology 2-D material in the theater can be flashed on the screen at 48 Hz, 72 HZ, 96 Hz, and higher multiplies of 24. IMAX 70mm film and 65mm film offers excellent picture quality that is better than 2K Digital IMAX. 70mm film can have a resolution that is somewhere between 8K-16K depending on the film stock.
The Digital Cinema systems distribute movies by several methods to theaters. Satellite transmissions, optical media, and a Media block system with RAID hard drives.
Digital IMAX with 2-D and 3-D technology (2K quality):
The Digital IMAX is one of the best high quality experiences for movies that are produced with native Digital Cameras. A Digital IMAX theater can use either two DLP Projectors or two Sony SXRD projectors. As far as I am aware Digital IMAX exclusively uses DLP projectors only. At one time IMAX considered using two Sony 4K SXRD LCOS Projectors to offer a 4K quality 2-D and 3-D presentation but instead all Digital IMAX theaters were equipped with two 2K DLP Digital Projectors. In the future maybe one day Digital IMAX theaters might upgrade their Digital Projectors to two 4K DLP models or two 4K Sony SXRD models. Currently all 3-D source material provided to theaters is 2K quality instead of 4K quality. With the current dual 2K DLP projector system used in a Digital IMAX system, the image is much brighter compared to many theaters that use non IMAX single projector solutions for 3-D (Some non IMAX theaters that use single projectors will install a brighter bulb to offer an experience comparable to IMAX).
Digital IMAX 3-D system uses linear polarized glasses that offers a full 2K image to both eyes. Linear polarization provides greater crosstalk rejection with less ghosting compared to circular polarization. Only real negative with linear polarized glasses is when one tilts their head ghosting can occur sometimes.
Commercial 2K DLP Projectors used in Digital IMAX theaters have no flicker at 24fps since there is no black time:
99.9% of consumer DLP projectors and all other consumer display technologies require 24fps source material to be flashed on the screen at a minimum of 48 Hz to prevent the unwatchable flicker issue from occurring (Some very bright 2-D flat panels need at least 72 Hz for no flicker). The problem with old film projectors and most consumer Digital projectors is that they can only show an image half of the time, and the other half of the time one would be shown black. It’s the “black” time that causes the flicker. If there is no “black” time there will be no flicker, no matter what the frame rate is. Think of the sun… its essentially 0 fps, and has no flicker.
Here’s a quote from Texas Instruments when they first developed their DCI projector :
“To more closely emulate the film-look in the projected image, a unique capability of the DMD was used to display the images at the standard motion picture industry rate of 24 fps. Since DLP displays are a continuous display technology, flicker-free display rates down to 24 fps are possible without the need for temporal up-sampling.”
The Christie DC2K projectors that IMAX uses are capable of triple flashing. They are in fact the same projectors commonly used by RealD. However, when they don’t have to triple flash, they don’t. When you triple flash, the bit depth of the image goes down.
Here’s a quote from IMAX, ‘IMAX uses linear polarization, as it presently offers better extinction than circular. RealD uses a higher frame rate for 3D out of necessity given they use a single projector and in order to alternate between left and right eye images without undue flicker, a higher frame rate is required. This method also introduces motion artifacts given left and right eye images do not arrive at the same time.
IMAX uses dual projectors that remain calibrated to the sub pixel level to guarantee image alignment. Left and right eye images are displayed at 24fps at the same time thereby avoiding motion artifacts.
Best regards, IMAX Corporation”
So a Digital IMAX presentation with two 2K DLP projectors will display 2K 24fps source material at 24fps. That is amazing that one can view 24fps movies at 24 HZ with no flicker at all. 3-D source material on the IMAX 3D is displayed at an effective rate of 48 Hz (One projector displays left eye 24fps image and the other projector displays right eye 24fps image at the same time). With the linear polarized glasses each eye sees 24 Hz that is flicker free. It is truly amazing that Digital IMAX with two DLP projectors can offer a flicker free presentation with 2-D at 24 Hz and 3-D at 48Hz (24Hz each eye).
The Runco 1080P D-73d dual LED DLP projector system is comparable to a 2K Digital IMAX 3-D system:
Currently the only consumer 1080P display on the market that flashes native 24fps 2-D Blu-ray’s at 24fps is the Runco D-73d Projector. That dual LED DLP Projector system will also display Blu-ray 3-D movies at 48fps (24fps for each eye with no flicker). The Runco D-73d 3D Projector offers a near Digital IMAX 3-D experience at home. The $72,395 price includes a Shasta CineWide lens with Autoscope option. Base price is $49,995.
Sony’s 4K single projector 3-D RealD theater system:
The Commercial Sony SXRD 4K projectors are much better quality compared to the consumer versions. The consumer Sony SXRD LCOS Front Projectors have a maximum refresh rate of 240 Hz. Consumer SXRD Front Projectors refresh 2-D 1080p/24 source material at 96 Hz or 192 Hz depending on the model. On the consumer SXRD Front Projectors there would be an unwatchable flicker on the screen if they could display 24fps source material at 24 Hz, so 96 Hz or 192 Hz is always used on the consumer versions of SXRD to eliminate any 2-D 24fps flicker issue.
The Sony 4K SXRD projectors display 4K 2-D images at 4K but 3-D images are displayed at 2K quality. Sony combines a single 4K projector and a 3D dual lens adapter with RealD technology. The dual 3-D lens adapter turns the single Sony SXRD 4K projector into a 3-D polarized system that will project two different 2K images for the left and right eye. The amazing thing about the Sony 4K single projector system configured with the RealD technology is that they can display 24fps source material at 24 Hz, 48fps source material at 48 Hz, and 60fps source material at 60Hz. So 2-D movies are shown on the screen at 24 Hz and 3-D movies can be shown at 48Hz (24Hz each eye). Also any future native 2-D 48fps and 60fps movies can be shown at 48 Hz and 60 Hz. The Sony SXRD 4K projectors use a flicker free 24fps process that is comparable in performance to the highend 2K and 4K DLP projectors that offer no flicker at 24fps do to no black time.
Quote from page 2:
“The Sony 3D lens adapter maximizes the exclusive technology of the 4K SXRD® imaging device, which displays four times as many pixels as conventional 2K projectors for digital cinema. This allows full 2K resolution for the left and right eye simultaneously, resulting in a high-luminance, full-resolution stereoscopic cinema presentation and is designed to enable more faithful reproduction of motion in 3D”
Here are some things Sony mentions as negatives of 3-D triple flash technology used by single projector DLP configurations:
“Triple flash. A system that enables 3D to be shown from a single 2K projector. This can cause unwanted visual artifacts as the projector's display devices rapidly alternate between right-eye and left-eye information.”
“” Sony offers 3D without triple-flash.
Instrumental in Sony's 4K success is our single-projector 3D solution, offered in conjunction with RealD™ systems. Conventional single-projector 3D systems use "triple flash," which presents information first to the left eye only and then to the right eye only. Unlike 2D projection, only one eye sees an image at a time. Sony's 3D solution is dramatically different, presenting to both eyes, full-time, the way vision works naturally.”
“47% of all 3D screens in the US are Sony 4K.” (2K quality for 3D)
Several movie theaters use a single DLP projector with 144Hz for the REALD 3-D system (flicker free):
In the RealD 3-D system many of the same DLP projectors that are used in Digital IMAX systems are usually the same models used in a RealD system. Instead of two 2K DLP projectors like those located in Digital IMAX theaters, a 2K or 4K single DLP projector is used in the REALD system. Since all 3-D movies are delivered by the studios to the theaters at 2K quality, a 4K single projector will only be able to show 3-D movies at 2K quality for both eyes. So when it comes to 3-D it does not matter much if the DLP projector is 4K or 2K due to the limitation of the source material. In the REALD system the image is projected through a polarity modulator that is placed in front of the projector. In the REALD system the name for the modulator is called a Zscreen. In the early experimentally days of 3-D technology for single DLP projectors it was discovered that double flashing the 48fps 3-D source material at 96fps caused flicker problems with 50% of the population. 50% of the population would see some flicker and 50% would not see it at all. At 120fps most people would no longer see flicker for 3-D but then one would see 60Hz 3:2 pulldown judder for each eye. So 100% of all single DLP projector systems configured for RealD 3-D Cinemas are now using 144fps since it is flicker free for 100% of the population. The triple flash technology occurs when the single projector flashes the 48fps 3-D image on the screen at 144Hz. Ones the polarized glasses are put on each eye sees 72fps. A silver screen with circular polarized glasses are used to deliver a full 2K of resolution for each eye. The advantage of circular polarization is that there is no ghosting when one tilts their head.
Consumer version of the RealD technology should be coming to flat panels in the future:
“RealD's RDZ 3D display technology offers full resolution, high-definition 3D video and is compatible with the same passive 3D eyewear used in most of the world's 3D-equipped motion picture theatres today. Unlike other 3D display technologies compatible with passive eyewear that cut resolution in half in 3D or lower image quality in 2D, RealD's RDZ technology delivers full resolution images and is 2D compatible, resulting in no degradation of image quality in 2D mode.” http://www.reald.com/content/consumer-electronics.aspx
The Titan 1080P 3-D Reference projector with 3 chip DLP for consumers is almost exactly the same quality as a REALD 3D DLP system found in theaters:
Digital Projection company makes both commercial and home theater DLP projectors. The 1080P 3-D Titan projectors well triple flash 48fps 3-D material at 144Hz on the screen. All 7 different models of consumer 3-D Titans can be configured with a REALD Z-screen. With polarized glasses and a silver screen one can experience a REALD theater system at home. Also the Titan 3-D projector is very universal and can be configured for many different types of systems. One can use passive glasses, active glasses, active/passive, circular polarization, and linear polarization. If one uses passive glasses then a silver screen is required. This Titan 3-D system can be configured with XpanD active shutter glasses which is the same active shutter system used in theaters with XpanD technology. There are also REALD brand active shutter glasses available for the Titan 3-D system. The flagship Titan Reference projector costs $84,995. There are 7 different Titan 3-D consumer models to choose from between $64,995-$84,995. The Digital Projection company also makes consumer models of projectors that can be configured for passive dual projector systems that are similar to a IMAX theater.
Click the following link for a diagram on how the ideal consumer 3-D Front Projector or 3-D display should work when unpacking the frame packed 1920 X 2205 image.
The Dolby 3D system also uses 144 Hz to deliver a flicker free presentation from one projector:
In the Dolby system a 2K or 4K projector is used with a 2K 3-D movie source material. The big advantage to the Dolby system is that no special silver screen is required and theaters can use the standard white screen. The three primary colors are divided into 2 separate wavelengths for 3-D projection. A Infitec filter then is used on the projector and rotated at high speed to display RGB for the right and left eyes. Special glasses fitted with Infitec filters are used to delivery RGB light wavelength for each eye. In the Dolby system each eye sees 72fps at 2K from the 2K 144fps 3-D projection.
XpanD 3-D Theater system is a 144Hz flicker free shutter glass system:
The XpanD 3D system is currently available in over 1,000 theaters worldwide outside of the United States. Generally a 4K or 2K DLP projector is used with a 2K 3-D source to deliver a true 2K picture quality to each eye. Just like the RealD and Dolby 3D 144fps system each eye on the XpanD 3-D system sees 72fps when the glasses are used. Just like the Dolby 3D system a standard white screen can be used. At 144fps (72 Hz each eye) the image is very smooth with very few people experience dizzy effects compared to some consumer active shutter systems that operate at 48 Hz or 60 Hz for each eye. An invisible infrared wavelength is transmitted to all the glasses in the theater. The 24 frames per second images alternate back and forth 144 times per second to deliver the correct left and right image to each eye. The system offers a very bright image on large screens.
The consumer Titan 3-D 1080P 3 chip DLP projectors use the XpanD 144Hz active shutter glass technology as an option.
JVC D-ILA LCOS system:
Sony is the leader in SXRD LCOS projectors in the theater. But when it comes to 1080P LCOS Front Projectors in the Home JVC is the leader. I was reading some literature about JVC professional 4K and 2K projectors. There have been some professional theater designs that are based on JVC technology. The JVC 4K and 2K LCOS projectors can be configured in both an active shutter glass system or passive shutter glass system using either one or two projectors. Also an Anaglyphic Infitec or simple red/blue technology can also be used.There have been some JVC D-ILA LCOS configurations that use two D-ILA 4K or 2K projectors that quad flash a 48 Hz 3-D source on the screen at 192 Hz. When two JVC projectors are configured together with an active shutter glass trchnology or with Infitec filters, each eye sees 96 Hz for a flicker free performance. The consumer 2011 1080P JVC 3-D projectors with active shutter glass technology only use a single projector with a 96Hz refresh rate for both eyes (each eye sees 48Hz). Some people see flicker on 3-D systems that use 96Hz for both eyes (48Hz for each eye).
Summary:
That basically covers just about all the most popular 3-D systems in use today. I am sure there are many other 3-D technologies in use today. The red and blue Anaglyphic glasses in generally are not being used that much anymore. The Digital IMAX 3-D system has its advantages of offering a very bright image with two projectors and offering native flicker free 24Hz for each eye without the need to triple flash. The only consumer system that is comparable to the Digital IMAX 3-D system is the Runco D-73d DLP projector which offers true 24Hz for each eye with no flicker issue. The professional Sony 4K single projector system in the theater configured with a dual 3-D REALD lens also offers true native 24Hz for each eye. So far Sony does not make a consumer 3-D 1080P projector that offers flicker free performance at 24 Hz. The consumer Sony SXRD projectors flash 2-D 1080p/24 signals on the screen at 96Hz or 192Hz depending on the model number in order to offer a flicker free performance.
The REALD 3D DLP single projector system, Dolby 3D DLP single projector system, and the XpanD 3D DLP single projector system all have one important thing in common. They all triple flash the 48Hz 3-D signal on the screen at 144 Hz to offer a flicker free experience with no 60 Hz 3:2 pulldown issues. The advantage of the consumer Digital Projection Titan 1080P 3-D Reference Projector and all other Titan 3-D models is that it can be configured to the same quality specs as the REALD passive glass system or the XpanD active shutter glass system at 144 Hz. Digital Projection is currently the only consumer company that makes 1080P projectors that are so universal that they literally can be configured to just about any 144fps 3-D system on the market. For those that want to create a custom dual projector IMAX system it is also possible to purchase third party attachments and other special equipment to configure a couple of Digital Projectors for passive view but it would be very expensive. (The Runco D-73d is an easier dual projector system for those that have to have 24Hz for each eye without triple flashing).
It is great that there is now 3-D consumer projectors on the market that offer the exact same frame rate compared to the movie theaters. Hopefully one day we will start to see some lower cost under $20,000 3-D projector designs that offer 144 Hz for the mainstream consumers. Then as time goes on projectors for under $10,000 that offer 144 Hz might start appearing on the consumer market.
Also hopefully plasma displays in the future will be made that offer 72 Hz in 2-D mode and 144 Hz in 3-D mode with active or passive glasses. The XpanD 3D theater system is based on 144 Hz active shutter glass technology. It would be ideal if Panasonic, Samsung, and LG in the next year or two would start offering 144 Hz or 192 Hz in 3-D plasmas. Since flat panel screens are brighter than projectors, to offer flicker free comfortable cinema quality 3-D, 192 Hz may need to be used on some very bright flat screens. Today with 96 Hz and 120 Hz technology being used on some 3-D displays and 3-D projectors a flicker is sometimes seen. At 144 Hz a flicker is never seen on projectors that use active or passive glasses. LCD and plasma flat panel display technology hopefully will keep improving over the years. Maybe one day there will be some 144 Hz or 192 Hz flat panels on the market that offer a flicker free 3-D performance without 3:2 pulldown.
Digital Projection Demos 3D Titan Projectors (Twice article)
(All 7 3-D Titan models use 3 chip DLP's with no rainbow issues)
The 144HZ 3-D Titan projector can be configured for a REALD 3-D passive or XpanD 3-D active system
Both passive and active glasses on the Titan offer full 1080P quality for each eye
The customer service and technical support quality of Digital Projection Inc is outstanding. Over the last week or so I have asked them many technical questions about their projectors, emails were answered within 24 hours in great detail. The projector is very universal and is future proof since the hardware was designed to handle up to full bandwidth 120Hz input signals. In the future if any new 3-D optical format is released that has full bandwidth 1080P with 120Hz output (60Hz each eye) then in theory the Titan 3-D models will be able to handle a 120Hz input with or without a software update. Right now for consumers with 3-D Blu-ray players the frame packed Blu-ray is 2205 at 24 Hz going into the projector but once the 3-D frames are unpacked inside the projector the 3-D source becomes 48Hz with a full 1080P image for each eye. The Titan 3-D models come in seven different models and they are a amazing universal projector. The Titan 3-D line of projectors are also the very first consumer display on the market that does Cinema quality Blu-ray 3-D at 144 Hz.
Digital Projection company makes both commercial and home theater DLP projectors. The 1080P 3-D Titan projectors well triple flash 48fps 3-D material at 144Hz on the screen. All 7 different models of consumer 3-D Titans can be configured with a REALD Z-screen. With polarized glasses and a silver screen one can experience a REALD theater system at home. Also the Titan 3-D projector is very universal and can be configured for many different types of systems. One can use passive glasses, active glasses, active/passive, circular polarization, and linear polarization. If one uses passive glasses then a silver screen is required. This Titan 3-D system can be configured with XpanD active shutter glasses which is the same active shutter system used in theaters with XpanD technology. There are also REALD brand active shutter glasses available for the Titan 3-D system. The flagship Titan Reference projector costs $84,995. There are 7 different Titan 3-D consumer models to choose from between $64,995-$84,995. The Digital Projection company also makes consumer models of projectors that can be configured for passive dual projector systems that are similar to a IMAX theater with special third party attachments needed.
The following are select quotes from the April 22 2010 Twice article
“Alternately, if video is delivered at 24p, the system can use triple flash to achieve a 144Hz refresh rate, explained Jeff Schneider, Digital Projection Northeast and Midwest sales manager.”
“In addition to supporting the latest 3D Blu-ray active-shutter formats, the server and projectors can be configured for a wide range of 3D applications from video games to movies requiring either active or passive-shutter glasses. The system will support Digital Projection's active-shutter system as well as the DepthQ and RealD Z-Screen, polarized passive-glasses technologies.”
“Also included with the Dimension Server is an IR emitter and active-shutter glasses in counts of eight or 12 pairs. The company is using Xpand and RealD active-shutter glasses for the system, Schneider said.”
“Using polarized glasses, viewers lose about 75 percent to 80 percent of the brightness output of the projector, Schneider explained, while those viewing 3D through the active-shutter system lose about 60 percent of the brightness output.”
“The virtually identical-looking Titan 1080p Reference Home Cinema models sell for between $65,000 and $85,000, depending on the configuration, and will produce up to 6,000 lumens of brightness at a 5,000:1 contrast ratio. The home cinema models, which include a lens in the package price, offer a significant reduction in projector noise from the commercial systems, he said.”
“The added cost for the 3D capability in the projectors is $15,000 in commercial models and $20,000 in the residential versions, Schneider said.”
“"What we find with 3D is the larger the screen, the better the experience," said Schneider. "So, yes, you can get a 50- or 60-inch 3D flat-panel set today, but with the projector approach the sky's the limit."
“Schneider said the advantage to Digital Projection's approach to 3D over competitive high-end home cinema front projector systems using dual projectors is first and foremost simplicity of installation and consistency of image quality."
"To dual converge projectors is a real science, an art form," he explained. "You have to really know exactly what you are doing and hope that you don't have any problems with your lensing. If there's one difference in the lens design or manufacturing, you will never be able to get a perfect over-layered image, and if you want a 2:35:1 to 1.78:1 aspect ratio, there is no way you could do that using an anamorphic lens and a double-stack of projectors."
Click the following link for a diagram on how the ideal consumer 3-D Front Projector or 3-D display should work when unpacking the frame packed 1920 X 2205 image.
The 1080P Runco D-73d 3D DLP Projector is state of the art
Never requires a new bulb since it is LED based
This amazing 3-D projector is the first consumer projector that operates like a Digital IMAX 3-D system.
1080P/24 material is flashed on the screen at 24Hz with no flicker (no black time). A 48Hz 3-D signal is displayed at the same time (One projector displays left eye 24fps image and the other projector displays right eye 24fps image at the same time)
The passive glasses on the Runco offer full 1080P quality for each eye
Commercial 2K DLP Projectors used in Digital IMAX theaters have no flicker at 24fps since there is no black time:
99.9% of consumer DLP projectors and all other consumer display technologies require 24fps source material to be flashed on the screen at a minimum of 48 Hz to prevent the unwatchable flicker issue from occurring (Some very bright 2-D flat panels need at least 72 Hz for no flicker). The problem with old film projectors and most consumer Digital projectors is that they can only show an image half of the time, and the other half of the time one would be shown black. It’s the “black” time that causes the flicker. If there is no “black” time there will be no flicker, no matter what the frame rate is. Think of the sun… its essentially 0 fps, and has no flicker.
Here’s a quote from Texas Instruments when they first developed their DCI projector :
“To more closely emulate the film-look in the projected image, a unique capability of the DMD was used to display the images at the standard motion picture industry rate of 24 fps. Since DLP displays are a continuous display technology, flicker-free display rates down to 24 fps are possible without the need for temporal up-sampling.”
The Christie DC2K projectors that IMAX uses are capable of triple flashing. They are in fact the same projectors commonly used by RealD. However, when they don’t have to triple flash, they don’t. When you triple flash, the bit depth of the image goes down.
Here’s a quote from IMAX, ‘IMAX uses linear polarization, as it presently offers better extinction than circular. RealD uses a higher frame rate for 3D out of necessity given they use a single projector and in order to alternate between left and right eye images without undue flicker, a higher frame rate is required. This method also introduces motion artifacts given left and right eye images do not arrive at the same time.
IMAX uses dual projectors that remain calibrated to the sub pixel level to guarantee image alignment. Left and right eye images are displayed at 24fps at the same time thereby avoiding motion artifacts.
Best regards, IMAX Corporation”
So a Digital IMAX presentation with two 2K DLP projectors will display 2K 24fps source material at 24fps. That is amazing that one can view 24fps movies at 24 HZ with no flicker at all. 3-D source material on the IMAX 3D is displayed at an effective rate of 48 Hz (One projector displays left eye 24fps image and the other projector displays right eye 24fps image at the same time). With the linear polarized glasses each eye sees 24 Hz that is flicker free. It is truly amazing that Digital IMAX with two DLP projectors can offer a flicker free presentation with 2-D at 24 Hz and 3-D at 48Hz (24Hz each eye).
The Runco 1080P D-73d dual LED DLP projector system is comparable to a 2K Digital IMAX 3-D system:
Currently the only consumer 1080P display on the market that flashes native 24fps 2-D Blu-ray’s at 24fps is the Runco D-73d Projector. That dual LED DLP Projector system will also display Blu-ray 3-D movies at 48fps (24fps for each eye with no flicker). The Runco D-73d 3D Projector offers a near Digital IMAX 3-D experience at home. The $72,395 price includes a Shasta CineWide lens with Autoscope option. Base price is $49,995.
The following are select quotes from the March 2011 Sound and Vision magazine review
“Runco’s approach to 3D is unique in the home space in that it uses a passive, double-stack solution. Essentially, two of the company’s Q750 LED-based DLP projectors are mated together in a single chassis with video routed through its new 3Dimension processor.”
“A polarization filter slides in front of each of the D-73d’s lenses when viewing 3D material, with the discrete left- and right-eye images then filtered by passive glasses. Since 1080p left- and right-eye images are always on the screen, Runco calls its solution Constant Stereoscopic Video (CSV). It claims that the benefit to its approach is freedom from the fatigue that single-projection systems induce by rapidly strobing left/right eye images onto the screen. Additionally, since both of the D-73d’s light engines can also be utilized for viewing 2D material, a configuration that doubles picture brightness while retaining contrast, it can be used to drive a much larger-size screen.”
“Because of the linear polarization filters placed in front of the D-73d’s dual projectors, it must be used with a special “polarization preservation” screen.”
“One potential drawback to linear polarization is that your head must remain relatively vertical while viewing; leaning sidewise causes the image to blur and darken and lose the 3D effect. In reality, unless you plan on watching while lying down on a couch, I don’t find head positioning to be an issue.”
“I think that the polarized glasses were a large factor in my long-term viewing comfort. Beyond just being passive, they are very lightweight and comfortable, reminding me quite a bit of my very first pair of Vuarnet sunglasses. I generally play around and fiddle with glasses in the theater, but never felt bothered by these. Plus, you get 6 pairs with your purchase, so you can entertain a decent-sized group right off the bat. (Additional glasses are sold in 6-pair lots for $199.)”
“At the end of the day, Runco’s D-73d will put out an amazing 3D image, and a terrific 2D one as well. I went into this review skeptical about 3D, and though I’m not ready to fully drink the Kool-Aid, I can now concede that 3D definitely has a place when it’s done right. And I haven’t seen it done any more right than on the D-73d.”
The following are select quotes from the April 2011 UltimateAVmag.com review
“Movies were played at 1080p/24, and the D-73d displayed them at 24fps—according to Bob Williams, chief product architect and recent guest on my Home Theater Geeks podcast, this is exactly how digital-cinema projectors display movies, with no double or triple flashing as with film projectors.”
“The D-73d offers a unique approach to 3D front projection. It incorporates two 1080p, single-chip DLP engines—one for the left eye, one for the right—in a single chassis that embodies Runco's curvaceous new Copenhagen design. The illumination source in each engine is a trio of red, green, and blue LEDs, not a white lamp. These LEDs cycle on and off in sequence, much like a conventional color wheel, while the single DLP chip (more properly called a Digital Micromirror Device, or DMD) forms the red, green, and blue portions of the image in sync with the LEDs. However, the LEDs cycle through the colors about 10 times faster than a color wheel, virtually eliminating any rainbow artifacts.”
“LEDs offer many advantages over UHP or even xenon lamps. Perhaps most important is longevity—Runco warrants its LEDs for the life of the projector, which means there's no need to replace lamps every few thousand hours. Also, the color and brightness of the LEDs is far more stable over time than any white lamp. Finally, the color gamut (the range of colors that can be reproduced) is much larger than most lamps can manage.”
“The one drawback of LEDs is brightness—they simply can't output as much light as lamps. This is especially important with 3D, which needs all the light it can get, since so much is lost as it passes through the filters in the projector and/or glasses. No wonder Runco went with a dual-projector design, which doubles the amount of available light.”
“The D-73d further addresses this concern by using polarization instead of active-shutter glasses to isolate the left and right images, because polarized glasses let more light through than active glasses. And polarization offers other advantages—for example, a dual-projector polarized system presents a completely continuous, full-resolution image to both eyes, eliminating any chance of active-shutter flickering and the physical discomfort it can sometimes induce. Also, polarized glasses are much lighter in weight, making them more comfortable to wear, and much less expensive than active glasses."
“The downside here is that the D-73d requires a special polarization-preserving screen—a conventional white screen won't work. This adds to the expense of a complete system, especially if you already have a white screen.”
“Imax 3D uses dual projectors with linear polarization, but you can't normally keep the glasses provided for those movies.”
“Why did Runco choose to use linear rather than circular polarization? According to Bob Williams, linear polarization provides much greater crosstalk rejection—and thus less ghosting—with the viewer's head in a vertical orientation, and linear-polarization filters are less expensive than circular ones.”
“The benefits of LED illumination and a dual-projector system with passive polarization are many, and the drawbacks are few, so if you're into 3D and you have a big budget, I can't think of a better way to go.”
Since your receiver is not HDMI 1.4a or HDMI 1.4 then yes you need to connect one HDMI output from the Blu-ray player to the TV for video and the other HDMI audio output to the surround sound receiver.
If one wanted to use their A/V receiver as a video switcher for Blu-ray 3-D then one needs to own a A/V receiver with HDMI 1.4 or later. If one wants to use their A/V receiver as a video switcher with broadcast, satellite, and cable 3-D sources then HDMI 1.4a is needed.
So unless you purchase a new HDMI 1.4a receiver you are not going to be able to run your HDMI output on the Cable Box to the older A/V receiver. You will need to connect the cable box up to the Mitsubishi adapter and then the adapter connects directly to the TV. Some people with Mitsubishi TV’s own three 3D adapters for three HDMI inputs. One adapter for a Blu-ray player that does not offer checkerboard output, second adapter is for a cable box that offers 3-D, the third adapter is for a video game system with 3-D output. It sounds like your setup is only going to need only one adapter.
People that own the older 3-D ready Mitsubishi displays are able to use one adapter for multiply devices with a HDMI 1.4a receiver in theory if they place the adapter on the A/V receivers HDMI 1.4 output.
The HDMI 1.4a receiver requirements for all existing 3-D formats is only a requirement 99% of the time. There is a possibility that maybe a Playstation 3 with HDMI 1.3 might be able to pass the 3-D signal threw an older HDMI 1.3 receiver that offers passive HDMI switching instead of active switching. Also a HDMI 1.3 cable box or satellite receiver that outputs a 3-D signal might allow some rare brands and models of HDMI 1.3 A/V receivers to pass the 3-D signal if the HDMI switching is passive instead of active. In generally 99% of the time you are going to need a HDMI 1.4a A/V receiver to support all the 3-D formats from Blu-ray and broadcast sources. You can always try using your older receiver but it most likely is not going to work at all when it sees the 3-D signal.
Thanks for the in depth posting.
For me, with only two Comcast channels, it does not make any sense to upgrade my A/V receiver.
When I get Panasonic Blu-Ray it seems all I have to do is the following.
Hook up emitter to TV directly.
Use one HDMI output to TV (I'd assume there is a special one for 3D).
Use one HDMI output to A/V replacing the current LG Blu-Ray.
Change my Harmony Remote to use a different HDMI for TV (Blu-Ray option)
Change my Harmony Remote to use new Panasonic Blu-Ray
Leave all other Harmony remote settings same for A/V (sound), TV, etc.
“As usual we found the 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable.”
Panasonic TC-P50GT30 50 inches (No 96Hz setting)
Panasonic TC-P55GT30 55 inches (No 96Hz setting)
Panasonic TC-P60GT30 60 inches (No 96Hz setting)
Panasonic TC-P65GT30 65 inches (No 96Hz setting)
It’s the year 2011 and Panasonic is still making new plasma models with the 48Hz mode that flickers. CNET mentioned the GT30 series 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable. I understand that most people do not own a Blu-ray player yet and they will leave the GT30 in the 60Hz mode which has no flicker. The purpose of a 1080p/24 signal from a Blu-ray player is to bypass the 60Hz 3:2 pulldown setting on a flat screen and offer a flicker free presentation at 72Hz, 96HZ, or higher multiplies of 24. It is puzzling why Panasonic even offers a 48Hz setting. The TC-P55GT30 has a list price of $2,199.95, for that price a 96Hz menu setting would be ideal. The only Panasonic plasmas that offer the 96Hz setting are the flagship models.
Hopefully future 2012 Panasonic models will drop the 48Hz mode and offer 96Hz for 2-D material. Maybe one day Panasonic hopefully will start offering a 144Hz Cinema quality 3-D mode. The black levels on the 2011 Panasonic’s still do not match the black levels of a discontinued 2008 Pioneer Kuro (Also every Pioneer 1080P plasma model from 2006-2008 refreshed 1080p/24 source material at 72Hz with no flicker).
The Panasonic TC-P50GT30 and TC-P55GT30 manual even mentions that flicker might be seen at 48Hz. The CNET review confirmed there is no 96Hz setting but Panasonic messed up and the manual mentions that there is a 96Hz mode when in reality the GT30 only has a 60Hz and 48Hz setting.
Quote from page 51 in the Panasonic manual:
“96Hz/48Hz: Achieves more cinematic playback by reproducing
the movie contents at 2 or 4 times the speed of 24 frames per
second. If flicker is seen using 48Hz, please use 60Hz or 96Hz.” http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TCP50GT30.PDF
Select quotes from the CNET review on the Panasonic TC-P55GT30 series:
“As usual we found the 48Hz mode flickered too much to be watchable.”
“Picture quality flaws include subtly fluctuating black and gray levels as well as inaccurate gamma that washes out shadows somewhat.”
I'm curious as to why you insist on pointing out the flaws/negatives in your summary, yet mention nothing of the positives? From CNET:
The good: The Panasonic TC-PGT30 has excellent overall picture quality, with deep black levels, accurate color, and solid video processing. It can handle 1080p/24 sources and bright rooms well and exhibits the nearly perfect screen uniformity of plasma, as well as very good 3D picture quality. It includes a Wi-Fi dongle, its Internet suite is simple to use yet content-rich, and the styling is handsome with a 1.5-inch-deep panel.
The bottom line: Excellent all-around picture quality combined with improved features and styling should make the Panasonic TC-PGT30 TV a favorite among bigger-spending plasma seekers.
I'm curious as to why you insist on pointing out the flaws/negatives in your summary, yet mention nothing of the positives? From CNET:
The main purpose of this thread is to mention displays that properly handle 1080p/24 signals at 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz, and higher multiplies of 24Hz with no flicker issues. The main positive feature talked about in this thread is the 24P feature. If a display messes up in the multiplies of the original frame rate area I normally do not quote positive information from the article. When a CNET review or other professional review mentions that a display is unwatchable in the 48 Hz mode and there is no 96Hz mode that is a big negative for people that do not want to watch Blu-rays at 60 Hz. I offered a link to the full CNET Panasonic review so people can read the entire review for themselves. Some people might decide that they have been watching 60 Hz videos for years and purchasing a display that needs to be placed in the 60 Hz mode is not a big deal.
The following are examples of other brands and models of displays where I only quoted the negatives because the 24P feature was not an option or did not work correctly. As always I leave a link to the review so that people can read the entire review and decide for themselves if a 60Hz display is something they want.
The following is an example where I mentioned positive quotes regarding a Panasonic flat panel display since it properly displays 1080p/24 material at multiplies of 24 with no flicker issues.
This entire thread talks about several brands and models of displays that handle 24fps signals a multiplies of 24fps. 60 Hz is never used in the theater for 24 Hz sources since it produces 3:2 pulldown judder during camera pans.
Most old and current reviews say the following about displays that use 1080P at 60Hz:
“Quote from an old TH-50PZ85U review
“The set displays sources up to 1080p/60p. Unlike Panasonic’s previous sets, it produces a viewable image with 1080p/24 program material. But it converts any 24-fps input to 60 fps, by adding 3:2 pulldown prior to display. Any Blu-ray player does the same thing when you select 1080p rather than 1080p/24. (Most movies on Blu-ray Discs are 24 fps.) Whether the conversion happens in the set or in the player, it defeats the benefit of 24-fps sources (which can subtly smooth motion by eliminating the judder inherent in 3:2 pulldown).”
For me, with only two Comcast channels, it does not make any sense to upgrade my A/V receiver.
When I get Panasonic Blu-Ray it seems all I have to do is the following.
Hook up emitter to TV directly.
Use one HDMI output to TV (I'd assume there is a special one for 3D).
Use one HDMI output to A/V replacing the current LG Blu-Ray.
Change my Harmony Remote to use a different HDMI for TV (Blu-Ray option)
Change my Harmony Remote to use new Panasonic Blu-Ray
Leave all other Harmony remote settings same for A/V (sound), TV, etc.
Does this make any sense?
On the Panasonic DMP-BDT350 you can use either “HDMI Main AV OUT” or “HDMI SUB AV OUT” with either a TV or A/V receiver, it does not matter which HDMI 1.4 output you use. Since “HDMI MAIN AV OUT” supports VIERA Link control it is recommended to use that HDMI output if one owns a Panasonic display that supports VIERA LINK.
You mentioned in a prior post that you have on order the Panasonic BDT-310 which has two HDMI 1.4 or 1.4a outputs. I have not read any reviews for that model yet. I would recommend using HDMI output 1 for the TV and HDMI output 2 for the A/V receiver because sometimes the main HDMI output uses a better video processor. I do not know if that is the case with your new Blu-ray player, but in general most companies that make Blu-ray players recommend using HDMI output number 1 for the main video display.
The rest of your comments make since. I hope everything works out for you.
On October 21st 2010 I discontinued the list of 2-D “Displays that support 1080p/24 signals at multiplies of the original frame rate” since it was too time consuming with all the 2-D 1080P 120Hz 5:5 pulldown LCD screens on the market (Many were under $1,000 in late 2010 at Walmart and Best Buy). In fact now one can purchase a 2-D 1080P 120Hz 5:5 pulldown LCD screen for under $450.
The list has been converted to a 100% exclusive 3-D display list only
The list now contains all the “USA 3-D consumer displays that display 3-D and 2-D signals at Cinema quality frame rates”. I have nothing against 2-D only displays but there are too many on the market to keep up with. I may still from time to time talk about some 2-D displays but I am no longer going to maintain a list of 2-D displays. After much research I have discovered 7 Titan 3-D 1080P Front Projectors and 1 1080P Runco D-73d 3-D Front Projector that properly displays both 3-D and 2-D signals just like in the Cinema. After sending several emails to Runco customer service and technical support I finally had the opportunity to have a detailed email conversation with a Runco engineer. I was surprised to learn that the Runco D-73d operates just like an IMAX dual projector system. The Runco engineer I communicated with was extremely knowledgeable and answered emails within 24 hours. The Digital Projection company was also very knowledgeable with excellent customer service regarding their 7 3-D 1080P Titan Front Projectors. All 7 3-D 1080P Titans are a single projector system that can be configured as a REALD 3-D passive or XpanD 3-D active system. The Digital Projection 3 chip DLP 3-D 1080P Titan models are very universal and can be configured for just about any type of 3-D system.
There are many 3-D technologies used in Cinemas around the world. After much research I discovered that there are 5 main 3-D systems used in Cinemas. There is the top of the line Digital IMAX and Sony SXRD RealD system that displays native 24Hz 2-D and 48Hz 3-D source material on the screen at 24Hz for each eye with no flicker at all. Then there are 3 theater systems in use that use a single DLP projector for 3-D. The REALD 3-D, Dolby 3-D, and XpanD 3-D systems all have one thing in common. All 3 of those Cinema systems take a 48Hz 3-D source and triple flash it on the screen at 144Hz (72Hz each eye) to offer a flicker free 3-D experience.
All new 2011 LG plasmas are using technology that use to be a exclusive feature in all 2006-2008 Pioneer plasma models
The discontinued Pioneer Kuru plasma line from 2008 is still the best in flat screen picture quality do to its deep blacks compared to any other flat screen on the market. I was amazed to hear that all existing LG plasmas in production are now using technology that use to be exclusive to Pioneer plasmas. Starting sometime in 2010 according to LG spec sheets the company started offering a feature called “24p real Cinema (3:3 pulldown)”. What that means is that when a 2-D 1080p/24 signal is received from a Blu-ray player or other device, all the LG plasmas will refresh the image on the screen at 72Hz just like in the Cinema. That 72Hz feature offers smooth camera pans and a very natural film look. The 72Hz plasma feature use to be exclusive to all Pioneer 2006-2008 plasmas. Even all the non 1080P LG models will refresh 24p sources at 72Hz. A 1024 X 768 2011 LG plasma model will take a 1080P/24 signal and display it at a resolution of 1024 X 768 at 72Hz. The 1080P models will take a 1080P/24 signal and display it at a full resolution of 1920 X 1080P at 72Hz.
Now if LG would just improve on their black levels and frame rates for 3-D they could become a technology leader in flat screen picture quality. Hopefully LG 3D models in the future will start offering a minimum of a 144Hz refresh rates for native 3-D frame packed Blu-ray sources.
There has been no professional review written about how well these LG 72Hz plasmas work. The instruction manuals are very vague on the feature. Most likely when the “Film Mode” is turned on, the LG 72Hz models will switch from 60Hz mode to 72Hz mode when a 1080p/24 signal is present. 72Hz is just like viewing a movie on a film projector in the theater in terms of natural smooth frame rate.
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Mitsubshi 65837 question
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