Forget 4K, Now 8K is Coming

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Tok

We still have to see any confirmation that a new format will contain any of those benefits.

HFR has only been used on two features so far. Dolby Vision does not sound format specific but more of display feature. Dolby Atmos for the home, I don't know how much this would improve the sound quality in the home environment.

The resolution increase like before is what they will use to market to consumers. Other than videophiles, no one knows and wants to know what the hell a color gamut is and what a wider one will do. It's not like we are going from B/W to color. Wide color gamuts will just be another excuse to amp up the 'colors' on the display floor to sell sets.

Netflix will be using HEVC H.265 for their UHD streaming and :

"Will Netflix be streaming content at a higher frame rate than that any way?

"We will. Initially, I think it's not there. But we will have HFR content. We have test content up to 60fps, just not real-world content. But we can stream at 60fps.

"There are three things that go into Ultra HD. One is the resolution, the other part is the frame rate, the final part is the colour depth - you go from 8-bit colour [at 1080p] to 10-bit colour [in UHD 4K]. We can do all those things streaming, but then it’s up to the TV whether it’ll support all those elements. Some TVs might have a wider colour space than others."

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1264...get-4k-content

Several manufacturers will have sets with the app necessary for Netflix UHD in the spring, just a few months away. Netflix needs to acquire a lot of UHD content to spur the adoption rate. I think we will have some good feedback from early UHD adopters by June or July. I think if Sony worked out a favorable deal with Netflix to stream the 140 plus UHD movies that are currently only available via download to the Sony" Hockey Puck" media server, it would benefit both of them. Sony recently added Captain Phillips and Hustle to the list of available downloads.

I have had limited exposure to UHD (demo running on a Sony at Best Buy.) What attracted me was the extended color space. Greens and Reds were impressive. I wasn't attracted by the increased resolution, but I had nothing to compare it to in the store.

[Tok]

I have seen the same demos at BB. I don't think the image that is being displayed is any more calibrated or accurate than any other display in the store.

I had to chuckle when then made text on the screen near unreadable when comparing HD to UHD. Seriously does anyone believe that shit?

I don't hear TV buyers and disc buyers complaining that they are disappointed with the color range of sets and how the discs could be better.

UHD is going to have an uphill fight. Remember we first saw HD broadcasts in the mid to late 1990s and it took until turning off the analog spectrum to force most to upgrade to HDTV. I don't see any major broadcaster talking about broadcasting the Superbowl or Olympics in UHD. IOW, it's going to be a while.

Most consumers are not going to jump to UHD sets for a small amount of native content (see 3D... low content and it didn't light a fire to get people to replace their sets). Why is UHD going to be any different? I don't buy that Netflix is going to be the primary provider of UHD. I don't buy that content providers are going to willingly give Netflix UHD content. I don't buy that bandwidth is going to be there for most to support UHD. 10-15Mbps is still a hell of lot of bandwidth for most consumers to get in their homes.

Sure Netflix supposedly did it at CES, but remember they are paying and Netflix was probably given a priority or even given their own dedicated line.

I have heard the same old arguments before how about fast DOCSIS 3.0 cable modems are and how they were demonstrated in 'real' settings. These 'real' settings at shows are seldom 'real' and more 'a dog and pony show' where all the shit is hidden behind the curtains.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Tok

I have seen the same demos at BB. I don't think the image that is being displayed is any more calibrated or accurate than any other display in the store.

I had to chuckle when then made text on the screen near unreadable when comparing HD to UHD. Seriously does anyone believe that shit?

I don't hear TV buyers and disc buyers complaining that they are disappointed with the color range of sets and how the discs could be better.

UHD is going to have an uphill fight. Remember we first saw HD broadcasts in the mid to late 1990s and it took until turning off the analog spectrum to force most to upgrade to HDTV. I don't see any major broadcaster talking about broadcasting the Superbowl or Olympics in UHD. IOW, it's going to be a while.

Most consumers are not going to jump to UHD sets for a small amount of native content (see 3D... low content and it didn't light a fire to get people to replace their sets). Why is UHD going to be any different? I don't buy that Netflix is going to be the primary provider of UHD. I don't buy that content providers are going to willingly give Netflix UHD content. I don't buy that bandwidth is going to be there for most to support UHD. 10-15Mbps is still a hell of lot of bandwidth for most consumers to get in their homes.

Sure Netflix supposedly did it at CES, but remember they are paying and Netflix was probably given a priority or even given their own dedicated line.

I have heard the same old arguments before how about fast DOCSIS 3.0 cable modems are and how they were demonstrated in 'real' settings. These 'real' settings at shows are seldom 'real' and more 'a dog and pony show' where all the shit is hidden behind the curtains.

For those that want it, it will be great. Bring on that 4k goodness!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Netflix will be using HEVC H.265 for their UHD streaming and :

"Will Netflix be streaming content at a higher frame rate than that any way?

"We will. Initially, I think it's not there. But we will have HFR content. We have test content up to 60fps, just not real-world content. But we can stream at 60fps.

"There are three things that go into Ultra HD. One is the resolution, the other part is the frame rate, the final part is the colour depth - you go from 8-bit colour [at 1080p] to 10-bit colour [in UHD 4K]. We can do all those things streaming, but then it’s up to the TV whether it’ll support all those elements. Some TVs might have a wider colour space than others."

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1264...get-4k-content

Several manufacturers will have sets with the app necessary for Netflix UHD in the spring, just a few months away. Netflix needs to acquire a lot of UHD content to spur the adoption rate. I think we will have some good feedback from early UHD adopters by June or July. I think if Sony worked out a favorable deal with Netflix to stream the 140 plus UHD movies that are currently only available via download to the Sony" Hockey Puck" media server, it would benefit both of them. Sony recently added Captain Phillips and Hustle to the list of available downloads.

I have had limited exposure to UHD (demo running on a Sony at Best Buy.) What attracted me was the extended color space. Greens and Reds were impressive. I wasn't attracted by the increased resolution, but I had nothing to compare it to in the store.

Is Netflix your favourite topic?

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Tok

I have seen the same demos at BB. I don't think the image that is being displayed is any more calibrated or accurate than any other display in the store.

I had to chuckle when then made text on the screen near unreadable when comparing HD to UHD. Seriously does anyone believe that shit?

I don't hear TV buyers and disc buyers complaining that they are disappointed with the color range of sets and how the discs could be better.

UHD is going to have an uphill fight. Remember we first saw HD broadcasts in the mid to late 1990s and it took until turning off the analog spectrum to force most to upgrade to HDTV. I don't see any major broadcaster talking about broadcasting the Superbowl or Olympics in UHD. IOW, it's going to be a while.

Most consumers are not going to jump to UHD sets for a small amount of native content (see 3D... low content and it didn't light a fire to get people to replace their sets). Why is UHD going to be any different? I don't buy that Netflix is going to be the primary provider of UHD. I don't buy that content providers are going to willingly give Netflix UHD content. I don't buy that bandwidth is going to be there for most to support UHD. 10-15Mbps is still a hell of lot of bandwidth for most consumers to get in their homes.

Sure Netflix supposedly did it at CES, but remember they are paying and Netflix was probably given a priority or even given their own dedicated line.

I have heard the same old arguments before how about fast DOCSIS 3.0 cable modems are and how they were demonstrated in 'real' settings. These 'real' settings at shows are seldom 'real' and more 'a dog and pony show' where all the shit is hidden behind the curtains.

I agree that it will take a herculean effort to get the average consumer to upgrade their display to UHD. UHD is going to be in the early adopter niche for several years. At present, Sony has, and soon Samsung will have, digital download sources for UHD. I don't see UHD digital download ever gaining much ground over streaming. Just as Netflix commands the bulk of the market for SD and HD streaming, so will they for UHD. We'll see what the early adopters have to say about it by mid-year.

To put it simply, consumers are moved by the WOW factor. For me, the UHD WOW factor was color, not resolution. I have a loose plan to upgrade to UHD before the end of the year, after I see some feedback from UHD display owners/Netflix streaming subscribers. If all is well, Netflix may get me back as a subscriber after a three year absence.

Also, Netflix didn't "supposedly" do it at CES. They did it and they did it at 15.6 Mbps. All the first hand accounts I read were complimentary. For example: http://www.stuff.tv/netflix/ces-2014...ing-video/news

[Tok]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Also, Netflix didn't "supposedly" do it at CES. They did it and they did it at 15.6 Mbps. All the first hand accounts I read were complimentary. For example: http://www.stuff.tv/netflix/ces-2014...ing-video/news

Again not saying they didn't do it, but I am sure they did some string pulling and made sure they had a dedicated connection with backups to show that it 'works' in the 'real' world. Again, just a little pessimism to temper the hype of the marketing types from the shows.

Any rep you talk to you on those show floors act like their products are the next big thing and will soon be in the hands of many consumers. The reality is there is a lot more shown at those shows that never get beyond the show floor. Will UHD happen... yes but it won't have a lot of native content or broadcasters supporting it for a very long time.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Netflix will be using HEVC H.265 for their UHD streaming and :

"Will Netflix be streaming content at a higher frame rate than that any way?

"We will. Initially, I think it's not there. But we will have HFR content. We have test content up to 60fps, just not real-world content. But we can stream at 60fps.

"There are three things that go into Ultra HD. One is the resolution, the other part is the frame rate, the final part is the colour depth - you go from 8-bit colour [at 1080p] to 10-bit colour [in UHD 4K]. We can do all those things streaming, but then it’s up to the TV whether it’ll support all those elements. Some TVs might have a wider colour space than others."

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1264...get-4k-content

Several manufacturers will have sets with the app necessary for Netflix UHD in the spring, just a few months away. Netflix needs to acquire a lot of UHD content to spur the adoption rate. I think we will have some good feedback from early UHD adopters by June or July. I think if Sony worked out a favorable deal with Netflix to stream the 140 plus UHD movies that are currently only available via download to the Sony" Hockey Puck" media server, it would benefit both of them. Sony recently added Captain Phillips and Hustle to the list of available downloads.

I have had limited exposure to UHD (demo running on a Sony at Best Buy.) What attracted me was the extended color space. Greens and Reds were impressive. I wasn't attracted by the increased resolution, but I had nothing to compare it to in the store.

Ray, despite your seemingly constant promotion of streaming on a forum devoted to packaged media, I like your open-mindedness about 4K/UHD but something you say and quote should be clarified despite what is said by a ‘director of global communications' for Netflix and reported by consumer audio video websites like that of which you’ve linked.

60 fps (Hz) is considered ‘full frame rate’…nothing more. Amongst engineers familiar with and working at 4K rez, p50 or p60 does not qualify as “HFR” for television, see…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...fr#post8663112

The reason 100 fps is selected in the above ^ post is that despite what is written on the Wikipedia page at the moment and regardless of what more seemingly diligent consumer A/V journalists like to quote as the gold standard reference url (http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/...8-I!!PDF-E.pdf ), 100 Hz has been added to the frame frequency parameter - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...00#post8536132

As to the ‘color’ of the Sony demo running at BB, the imagery is not a wide color gamut (WCG) of which most company agnostic standards-makers folks desire “UHD” to settle out at in years to come. Without getting overly technical, Sony’s x.v.Color (xvYCC ) can be thought of as keeping the RGB primary colors from Rec.709 but, negative values are allowed for coding out-of-gamut colors for which the gamma curves must be extended for those negative values and that in itself is a questionable use of gamma functions. Most likely the reason this ‘color’ was chosen by Sony was because the x.v.Color signal is pretty much compatible with legacy Rec.709 TVs, the color errors being not too dramatic.

But, you’re on the right tract as to truly WCG ( https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...or#post8673664 ) being more easily appreciable by Joe6pack at BB, or in the home, rather than simply a bump up in rez from 1080p -> 4K. However, 10 bit B.T.2020 with increased brightness would be a better choice combo-parameter on which to build next gen video to last us for 20 or 30 years.

[TheOpusFuller]

Saw a demo unit at best buy a couple of times. It's look better than 1080 sets but it doesn't look 4 times better. Not sure if the demo they were running was fully optimized to showcase 4k at it's greatest, but it wasn't that big of a leap to knock my socks off.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I agree that it will take a herculean effort to get the average consumer to upgrade their display to UHD...

Then it’s lucky you guys have no personal financial interest in its ultimate success.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Don't forget, anyone buying a BD player IS buying a DVD player and a digital streaming device. I know people who have replaced their DVD player with a BD player and use it exclusively for DVDs and streaming.

The other impediment to getting people to upgrade their displays is, the displays can have a useful life of 28 years or more.

And just as many, especially on the low-end, won't last five years (just look at all the posts from people who have said that their sets have failed) and they won't be fixable. The fact is that better CRTs lasted a long time also - my Sony CRT, which I got rid of less than three years ago, was still working perfectly when I discarded it at about 27 years old. That didn't stop people from moving to flat screens.

But that doesn't mean that people don't replace their sets (or anything else for that matter). We are a consumerist society and even in the currently poor economy, people are constantly replacing their appliances, cars, electronics, computers, Pads, phones, etc. Many people replace just because they "have to have" the latest model, regardless of the benefits. And generally, people will buy a new set, put that in the living room or home theatre and move the last model to a bedroom or den. It's not unusual today for a family to have five TV sets. (That's obviously not true for everybody - there are plenty of people who are just trying to put food on the table - but it's true for enough people to drive substantial sales, if not substantial profits, for the TV industry.)

What is true is that an upgrade to 4K is not as much a motivation as the change from analog to digital technology, but as prices fall closer to 1080p levels, people who replace their sets will frequently buy 4K even if they don't really know what 4K means, just as people upgraded from 720p to 1080p sets (and even though there are no broadcast or cable signals at 1080p). Only a relatively small percentage of 1080p set owners use Blu-ray.

Just about every technology introduced had people who said, "the current technology is good enough - I'm not upgrading." That was true when Edison cylinders became flat 78RPM records (about 1898), when the LP was introduced by Columbia Records (1948), when the 45 RPM single was introduced by RCA (1949), when pre-recorded reel-to-reel tape were introduced (1949) (originally 2-track, later 4-track), 4-track cartridges (1962), 8-track cartridges (1964), cassettes (1966 in the U.S.), VHS (1976), Laserdisc (1978) DVD (1997), 720p flat screen, "Full HD" sets, etc.

I live in an apartment building which has a large percentage of elderly people. Many still have VHS machines. But several times a week, when I come through the basement, there's an empty flat-screen carton sitting there and I also still see discarded CRT TVs sitting in the street. So eventually, almost everyone upgrades. Some won't. So what?

Don't let your own emotions cloud a reasoned analysis of the market. I love vinyl LPs and still have about 300 sitting in my living room, but the reality is that in spite of all the hype, LP sales are less than 2% of the market.

While there have been electronics that have failed (RCA Videodisc, various game machine formats) or not met expectations (3D) and it's not an absolute that 4K will be successful, chances are that we are going to have a 4K future. We're still in the "early adopter" stage - don't let the lack of mass sales of 4K sets so far bias your opinion as to whether 4K will hit the mainstream. IMO, it will, but it won't just be because of the resolution. It will be because future 4K sets will also be "smarter", have more integration with web services, will make more use of second screens, will be voice activated, have smoother integration with computers, phones and pads, etc. New UIs will be necessary because more content will emanate from more diverse sources and users will not want to change inputs when they watch a program on an on-demand service as opposed to watching cable, etc. We're already seeing the beginnings of this with voice-activated sets.

Just as fashions change from year to year, new technologies will always be introduced, needed or not, just to get people to buy something else. In a capitalist society, this is necessary or the economy fails. A capitalist society is predicated on both innovation as well as waste.

The Macintosh just celebrated it's 30th birthday. If you look at that first bit-mapped GUI-based model, it's almost laughable today. We've come an incredibly long way in 30 years and it's almost impossible to imagine the strides that will be made in the next 30 years. Today's electronics will be laughable in 30 years, in fact, they'll probably be laughable in ten years.

You might not care. I know people who don't watch any TV. But the masses still do.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by TheOpusFuller

It's look better than 1080 sets but it doesn't look 4 times better.

4 times resolution is just marketing hype BS. It is in fact 2 times the H and 2 times the V resolution. IOW, you can see twice as many fence post, not 4 times as many .

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by TheOpusFuller

Saw a demo unit at best buy a couple of times. It's look better than 1080 sets but it doesn't look 4 times better. Not sure if the demo they were running was fully optimized to showcase 4k at it's greatest, but it wasn't that big of a leap to knock my socks off.

I've seen the demo at Best Buy as well, and I wasn't WOW, nor impress with it either! It really didn't make me want to run out, and buy one the next day (that's for sure). The 4K demonstration didn't amazed large crowds of people enough for them to gather around and gawk at the picture for a long period of time, as if its something they've never seen before. They just glanced at it in passing, thought it was just another 1080p HDTV being displayed on the floor, paid it no attention and moved on.

[TheOpusFuller]

Hit the nail on the head!

I'm rooting for someone to wow me with technology. I really am. Between this upgrade on the 4k TV's, PS4, XBOX One, no new leap in technology is really wowing me!

My mind is just boggled...

The PS4 is like a PS3.1 honestly. No media support (video/music playback), Can't connect official bluetooth sony ps headset to the ps4. Graphics are slightly better with better frame rate but it should be much more than that.

XBOXONE - Same deal. At least they upped their game with making it a better media center! But still subpar.

New TVs - I own a Samsung 51ich Plasma 3D TV. it looks beautiful. I LOVE 3D and pray that I don't lose vision in one eye just so I can continue being able to view 3D content. I expect to be wowed with the upgrade in definition. I can care less about it being more media center oriented with apps and all that crap. My PS3/PS4 will always be my go to media center for my TV. I just want to be wowed with the definition upgrade and not have to worry about them stripping the 3D aspect from TVs.

For the people who call 3D a gimmick, I call you a schmuck. It's glorious. End of story. Nothing gimmicky about it. Is it a nuisance because you have to wear physical headset to see the 3D? Absolutely. I'd love for the norm to be glasses free 3D. That aside, 3D content is definitely not a gimmick.

Pardon for this post being all over the place.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

And just as many, especially on the low-end, won't last five years (just look at all the posts from people who have said that their sets have failed) and they won't be fixable. The fact is that better CRTs lasted a long time also - my Sony CRT, which I got rid of less than three years ago, was still working perfectly when I discarded it at about 27 years old. That didn't stop people from moving to flat screens.

But that doesn't mean that people don't replace their sets (or anything else for that matter). We are a consumerist society and even in the currently poor economy, people are constantly replacing their appliances, cars, electronics, computers, Pads, phones, etc. Many people replace just because they "have to have" the latest model, regardless of the benefits. And generally, people will buy a new set, put that in the living room or home theatre and move the last model to a bedroom or den. It's not unusual today for a family to have five TV sets. (That's obviously not true for everybody - there are plenty of people who are just trying to put food on the table - but it's true for enough people to drive substantial sales, if not substantial profits, for the TV industry.)

What is true is that an upgrade to 4K is not as much a motivation as the change from analog to digital technology, but as prices fall closer to 1080p levels, people who replace their sets will frequently buy 4K even if they don't really know what 4K means, just as people upgraded from 720p to 1080p sets (and even though there are no broadcast or cable signals at 1080p). Only a relatively small percentage of 1080p set owners use Blu-ray.

Just about every technology introduced had people who said, "the current technology is good enough - I'm not upgrading." That was true when Edison cylinders became flat 78RPM records (about 1898), when the LP was introduced by Columbia Records (1948), when the 45 RPM single was introduced by RCA (1949), when pre-recorded reel-to-reel tape were introduced (1949) (originally 2-track, later 4-track), 4-track cartridges (1962), 8-track cartridges (1964), cassettes (1966 in the U.S.), VHS (1976), Laserdisc (1978) DVD (1997), 720p flat screen, "Full HD" sets, etc.

I live in an apartment building which has a large percentage of elderly people. Many still have VHS machines. But several times a week, when I come through the basement, there's an empty flat-screen carton sitting there and I also still see discarded CRT TVs sitting in the street. So eventually, almost everyone upgrades. Some won't. So what?

Don't let your own emotions cloud a reasoned analysis of the market. I love vinyl LPs and still have about 300 sitting in my living room, but the reality is that in spite of all the hype, LP sales are less than 2% of the market.

While there have been electronics that have failed (RCA Videodisc, various game machine formats) or not met expectations (3D) and it's not an absolute that 4K will be successful, chances are that we are going to have a 4K future. We're still in the "early adopter" stage - don't let the lack of mass sales of 4K sets so far bias your opinion as to whether 4K will hit the mainstream. IMO, it will, but it won't just be because of the resolution. It will be because future 4K sets will also be "smarter", have more integration with web services, will make more use of second screens, will be voice activated, have smoother integration with computers, phones and pads, etc. New UIs will be necessary because more content will emanate from more diverse sources and users will not want to change inputs when they watch a program on an on-demand service as opposed to watching cable, etc. We're already seeing the beginnings of this with voice-activated sets.

Just as fashions change from year to year, new technologies will always be introduced, needed or not, just to get people to buy something else. In a capitalist society, this is necessary or the economy fails. A capitalist society is predicated on both innovation as well as waste.

The Macintosh just celebrated it's 30th birthday. If you look at that first bit-mapped GUI-based model, it's almost laughable today. We've come an incredibly long way in 30 years and it's almost impossible to imagine the strides that will be made in the next 30 years. Today's electronics will be laughable in 30 years, in fact, they'll probably be laughable in ten years.

You might not care. I know people who don't watch any TV. But the masses still do.

The reality is that price rules the general consumer. Sure us videophiles usually want the latest and greatest, but if my set fails right now I am NOT shelling out the significant premium for a UHD set. Instead I am looking forward to seeing 1080p sets have their prices pushed down even further.

When UHD is another bullet point on feature set list that doesn't command a significant premium then consumers will buy it.

It's not what the bean counters for the CE makers want to hear, but its the way it goes for most feature advancements in the industry.

I remember quite a few people here 3-4 years ago claiming you had to have 3D and some were quite adamant about how it changed the narrative of some films in significant ways. Let's just say I am a 3D fan but watching a film in 3D does not change the narrative and it's not a must have feature.

What we are seeing here are the same type of posters in the industry that want to make you feel inadequate if you don't have the latest buzzword in your equipment list, UHD/4K.

SD to HD was a big jump especially if you watched on a 50-in or bigger set. UHD is not going to be the earth shattering experience the industry wants consumers to believe. Hell I am perfectly fine right now with 1080p BD on my 100-in screen. Now when I replace that projector in several years if UHD is my price range and real content is available at affordable prices then yes I'll get a UHD unit.

There's just too many things that haven't been defined around UHD right now. Where are the AVR that truly support HDMI 2.x? Is a physical format going to happen? Are broadcasters and service providers actually going to deliver content (maybe we will have Superbowl LV broadcast on a large scale)?

IOW, the only ones that should be buying UHD sets right now are the ones with money to burn. I am talking about the ones that will be willing to run out and replace their first UHD set without much protest because the first one was half baked with respect to the final UHD standards and connection specifications. Otherwise if you're smart and really want it you'll let the whole thing playout a couple of years until the CE makers agree on some sort of standard for the UHD future.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Ray, despite your seemingly constant promotion of streaming on a forum devoted to packaged media,

As to the ‘color’ of the Sony demo running at BB, the imagery is not a wide color gamut (WCG) of which most company agnostic standards-makers folks desire “UHD” to settle out at in years to come. Without getting overly technical, Sony’s x.v.Color (xvYCC )

I get that a lot on the forum. One would think that at the mention of the S word eyes bulge from their sockets and heads explode. The truth is virtually everyone one this forum streams more than I do. I dropped Netflix in 2011, have never used iTunes or Amazon instant. In fact, the last thing I streamed was a 99 cent VUDU movie over a year ago. I'm a BD buyer and BD renter from Red Box. That said, when and if I get an opportunity to view Netflix UHD streaming and if I perceive it to be superior to physical BD (1080P) I might very well promote it. As I pointed out in another thread, the forum is not entirely devoted to physical disc packaged media.

I have a technical background, but I'm not an EE even though I have held jobs where an EE was required for the position. (Project Field Engineer)
I am familiar with xvYCC.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=331

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by TheOpusFuller

Hit the nail on the head!

I'm rooting for someone to wow me with technology. I really am. Between this upgrade on the 4k TV's, PS4, XBOX One, no new leap in technology is really wowing me!

My mind is just boggled...

The PS4 is like a PS3.1 honestly. No media support (video/music playback), Can't connect official bluetooth sony ps headset to the ps4. Graphics are slightly better with better frame rate but it should be much more than that.

XBOXONE - Same deal. At least they upped their game with making it a better media center! But still subpar.

New TVs - I own a Samsung 51ich Plasma 3D TV. it looks beautiful. I LOVE 3D and pray that I don't lose vision in one eye just so I can continue being able to view 3D content. I expect to be wowed with the upgrade in definition. I can care less about it being more media center oriented with apps and all that crap. My PS3/PS4 will always be my go to media center for my TV. I just want to be wowed with the definition upgrade and not have to worry about them stripping the 3D aspect from TVs.

For the people who call 3D a gimmick, I call you a schmuck. It's glorious. End of story. Nothing gimmicky about it. Is it a nuisance because you have to wear physical headset to see the 3D? Absolutely. I'd love for the norm to be glasses free 3D. That aside, 3D content is definitely not a gimmick.

Pardon for this post being all over the place.

Give Penton a few minutes and he'll be after me for stealing his "Wow Factor" phrase.

I'm with you on 3D. It is very impressive. Many of the UHD Displays are 3D capable.

Something to consider regarding buying equipment with little or no WOW. Remember all the PS3 firmware updates that added to the value. The addition of 3D for example. Virtually all of my HT equipment have had automatic updates via the internet with valuable enhancements.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by TheOpusFuller

Hit the nail on the head!

I'm rooting for someone to wow me with technology. I really am. Between this upgrade on the 4k TV's, PS4, XBOX One, no new leap in technology is really wowing me!

My mind is just boggled...

The PS4 is like a PS3.1 honestly. No media support (video/music playback), Can't connect official bluetooth sony ps headset to the ps4. Graphics are slightly better with better frame rate but it should be much more than that.

XBOXONE - Same deal. At least they upped their game with making it a better media center! But still subpar.

New TVs - I own a Samsung 51ich Plasma 3D TV. it looks beautiful. I LOVE 3D and pray that I don't lose vision in one eye just so I can continue being able to view 3D content. I expect to be wowed with the upgrade in definition. I can care less about it being more media center oriented with apps and all that crap. My PS3/PS4 will always be my go to media center for my TV. I just want to be wowed with the definition upgrade and not have to worry about them stripping the 3D aspect from TVs.

For the people who call 3D a gimmick, I call you a schmuck. It's glorious. End of story. Nothing gimmicky about it. Is it a nuisance because you have to wear physical headset to see the 3D? Absolutely. I'd love for the norm to be glasses free 3D. That aside, 3D content is definitely not a gimmick.

Pardon for this post being all over the place.

I didn't think the PS4 was that big an improvement over PS3 until I went back and played some ps3 games. The difference is bigger than some think it is IMO

As for the concern over stripping 3D from TV sets, yes, I believe that is a genuine concern. I like 3D so I am with you.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I get that a lot on the forum. One would think that at the mention of the S word eyes bulge from their sockets and heads explode. The truth is virtually everyone one this forum streams more than I do. I dropped Netflix in 2011, have never used iTunes or Amazon instant. In fact, the last thing I streamed was a 99 cent VUDU movie over a year ago. I'm a BD buyer and BD renter from Red Box. That said, when and if I get an opportunity to view Netflix UHD streaming and if I perceive it to be superior to physical BD (1080P) I might very well promote it. As I pointed out in another thread, the forum is not entirely devoted to physical disc packaged media.

I have a technical background, but I'm not an EE even though I have held jobs where an EE was required for the position. (Project Field Engineer)
I am familiar with xvYCC.

MOD NOTE:

Then it is time for you to reconsider your posting habits.

This forum is for discussions, not for promotions. So, going forward discussions should be on topic. If there is button-pushing leading to the type of bickering that is present on the last couple of pages, a moderator will clean up the posts and some posters will be given a vacation.

Thanks.

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by AKORIS

ridiculous.... they're reaching for levels that the average consumer doesn't care about and will never pay big bucks for....

Yep and your seeing that with the average consumer with 4K.

[pentatonic]

As a relatively neutral observer, there are a few points I don't get.

1st, since when do "ophiles" aren't into tech that promises to be better?

2nd, Many 4K were introduced this year, not many will sell outside of the ones who have the $ anyways, or the retail drops in a few. But by next year I expect the 2nd in line series to also have 4K. And so on. As you all know, price per unit comes down real fast in the panel market when production is at full, and having to keep running an "old" line and stocking old parts soon doesn't make sens anyways. So I'd bet a big amount that within 5 years, anyone who has real interest in HT will be buying 4K.

3rd, I somehow think many mix 2 things in this debate. For now we look at those sets and compare them to a ZT60, and led just isn't there yet. But plasma is quickly dying, so the debate will be a mid level 1080p lcd or top tier 4K 10 bit oled, or whatever new lcd tech that is the best. For now we have to compare to other LCDs. And I'd also bet a large chunk that if Panasonic had introduced a 70" 4K ZTS-70 REC 2020 set, this conversation just wouldn't be happening.

Just food for thought guys.

Be nice now