Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

@ErnestRister The insult is asking me if I saw the Godfather.

A true fall is one where you can't get up. You can do something bad and then pay for crimes if they aren't bad enough.

The hospital scene wasn't a fall, it was protecting your father. He did nothing but stick his hand in pocket.

The "fall" (as you describe)would be in the resteraunt and Al Pacino got part in film (or believed he was stable in part after that scene) because of that obvious change in face. He has done interviews on that. That is when vengeance took over right before he stood up (much like Anakin and the closeup face before slicing up more Sand People assuming innocent babies instead of justifiable homicide based on temporary insanity of watching mom die and feeling eminent anger, remember thinking about it, ain't doing it which is why your examples fail) That is the going to dark side my friend not "fall". That is why he fled to avoid prison. Putting a hand in pocket to save dad is no big change. I would do it too not believing in cause just to save family. Remember there was no cops and no time.

The point was the exclamation as I see it where there is no coming back (death of brother in Godfather II, death of Wife in episode III) and submitting completely into dispair (Darth Vader nooo afte learning about Padme to Michael alone after flashback realizing Fredo is the only one who supported his decision).

My point is how you are being incredibly unfair. If you lop off Godfather III, then you have to lop off Ep. I.

I don't see the problem. Ep. II and III got the job done to me and were very entertaining (at least to me). Comparing to the Godfather is equally as unfair. Coppola prime to Lucas arguably just learning digital filming?? Really?? Lets compare Coppola at that time, or lets not...

@Arawn. The idea of the force, it surrounds us, it binds us. Us being beings, midichlorians being life forces. Nope not seeing difference. Quigon did a test, big whoop. Didn't say it was only test of a force that binds us or surrounds us.

Why can't lucas describe by visual rather than spoon feeding? So when Darth Maul manipulates seemingly air and throws things that doesn't describe (binds us, surrounds us)?

Ever have a moment where you realize you're not on the same page with someone, and then you have a second moment where you realize you're not even reading the same book? That's pretty much the moment the two of us are having. We're not connecting.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

If you lop off Godfather III, then you have to lop off Ep. I

Where do I sign?

[ParkerAL]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Sounds like the prequels to me.

Not really. It sounds more like an early draft of the first Star Wars movie's opening crawl. It's a vague backstory that sets the stage for the audience to understand what's going on in the actual plot.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Offense taken. Screw you... no offense... but I found a way to actively enjoy the prequels on that level, after ten years of despising them. I'm not trying to tell YOU how to think, but to me that's a valid reason for finding "good" in them. God, I hate these f'ing forums.

Wow man, let that rage flow through you like a true Sith! You're on your way! No one insulted you, no one is making your life a living hell by telling you they disagree. Get over it.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

The prequels are neither poorly written or badly executed. They only seem that way to some followers of the original trilogy. It is like the Lucas bashing. It has no real place, but yet there it is like a cult that will just grow and grow.

Or maybe I am a relatively objective movie fan and can see their total shit in the areas of writing and direction? Just maybe? I'm not a big Star Wars guy, I mostly only love Empire Strikes Back and find the other two original trilogy entries flawed too. Not as flawed as the excrement that is Phantom and Clones, but pretty flawed. Sith is... okay.

Anyway, point is don't generalize. Many, many, many people think those movies are bad for very solid reasons. You can still like them though of course. I like Batman v Superman a lot, so there ya go.

[JasonHensley]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

You obviously haven't read earlier drafts because tons of the material had been around for 25+ years.

Of course making things up, isn't that what writers do?



Sounds like the prequels to me.

My god. That doesn't sound like the prequels at all. What is wrong with you, seriously?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Ever have a moment where you realize you're not on the same page with someone, and then you have a second moment where you realize you're not even reading the same book? That's pretty much the moment the two of us are having. We're not connecting.

Obviously. Can't say I haven't tried. I can't take the point seriously when one is saying looks and concern is taking a "fall". Action is what counts to me and I take the McClusky Sollozzo scene very seriously as well as the Sand people massacre as pivitol moments. Why hang someone over a tantrem or emotional distress?

Look, i was trying to debate and you keep throwing things up against the wall instead of tackling the points. You brought up the Godfather movies not taking 6 hours to tell a similar story, I say they have a rise and fall told with similar time and made points to back my case. I stated that Ben Hur was over 3 hours and you bring up a time stamp of over 3 hours to do what again?? Comparing Ben Hur is apples and oranges to me.

@StingingVelvet key word is "some".

@JasonHensley At all? Right must be something wrong with me. Hmmm lets break it down.

The Republic Galactica is dead – ruthless trader barons have replaced democracy with the First Galactic Empire.

Remember the droid army with Separtists emergency power thing? Remember JarJar Binks giving over power to Palpatin? Nothing familiar?

The Jedi knights were the guardians of peace in the galaxy for more than a thousand years, but now they are all but extinct, destroyed by the Emperor’s agents: the Dark Lords of the Sith.

Anakin and Jedi Temple not ringing a bell???

Two sides of the Force are always present: a positive side, which the Jedi store in themselves, and a negative side (called the Bogan), which is used by the Sith. Either side can be amplified using a “Kiber Crystal”, but all known crystals have fallen in the hands of the Dark Lords.

The significance of the lost and found light sabers are based upon the one kept and held by Obi Wan or what Luke made. The slaughter of the younglins and obtaining the riches of the Jedi temple are significant to me and lean toward a time where once prevalent protector resources are now all but extinct. This paragraph is textbook and not possible without the hostile takeover of Anakin.

However, Rebel Armies have won a crushing victory over the Imperial Starfleet, and the Emperor – afraid of losing control of the Outland systems – has sent his most ferocious Dark Lord to find and destroy the rebels.

This would be Rogue 1. Which of course is a prequel.

I don't think there is "something wrong with me" just because I don't think like you do. My point was Lucas had a skeleton early and there is more evidence even if in rough form.

The next paragraph may sound a little more familiar for the OT being the only thing important crowd.

Above the planet of Utapau, stormtroopers led by Darth Vader (a Sith Lord and right hand of the Emperor) overtake a rebel spaceship, and conduct a search for the stolen plans to the Empire’s “Death Star” battle station. A young rebel princess called Leia Organa is captured by the Imperials, but she refuses to reveal the whereabouts of the information.

[Ernest Rister]

I went to this exact same obstinate obtuse prom with people back in 1999, 2002, and 2005. I'm no longer interested in the dance. You don't or won't understand where I'm coming from -- fine. Get your own ride home.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I went to this exact same obstinate obtuse prom with people back in 1999, 2002, and 2005. I'm no longer interested in the dance. You don't or won't understand where I'm coming from -- fine. Get your own ride home.

Wow, that was unnecessary.

Perhaps you might notice the pattern, perhaps it isn't wasn't them, you possibly being the common thread of the failure? However no need to ditch and stop beng a gentlemen even if you don't agree.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Wow, that was unnecessary.

Perhaps you might notice the pattern, perhaps it isn't wasn't them, you possibly being the common thread of the failure? However no need to ditch and stop beng a gentlemen even if you don't agree.

It's boring, man. Been through this before. Waste of time.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

It's boring, man. Been through this before. Waste of time.

Boring because someone doesn't just bend to how you think and can see through your examples?

I too have been through this before, so what. Every person is different and you comparing me to another human beings point of view is pretty close minded.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

at the end of the scene with Qui Gon testing young Anakin's blood, with John Williams ending it with a Sith theme

^ That's probably the strongest point in support of the idea that Lucas had the Sith creation thing planned from the start. But it's still ambiguous. It's kind of like Owen's "that's what I'm afraid of" in the original film. From a post-TESB perspective, it's easy to read into Owen's line that Lucas already knew Anakin = Vader when it was written, but as I'm sure you know that is a point of much contention in Star Wars land as evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Arawn

^ That's probably the strongest point in support of the idea that Lucas had the Sith creation thing planned from the start. But it's still ambiguous. It's kind of like Owen's "that's what I'm afraid of" in the original film. From a post-TESB perspective, it's easy to read into Owen's line that Lucas already knew Anakin = Vader when it was written, but as I'm sure you know that is a point of much contention in Star Wars land as evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

That is whst I love about original. Do many layers not spoonfed.

Thay and Leia is way hotter than any ohlf the other films.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That is whst I love about original. Do many layers not spoonfed.

Thay and Leia is way hotter than any ohlf the other films.

You like them hair buns, eh?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

You like them hair buns, eh?

I was thking of lily white snow globes myself.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That is whst I love about original. Do many layers not spoonfed.

Thay and Leia is way hotter than any ohlf the other films.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

I was thking of lily white snow globes myself.

What?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

What?

Oh man, that meant testicles according to urban dictionary. Oops.

Just globes, and in that movie they were never better.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Luke is our "in" to the story. Lucas doesn't even bother to explain the Force in the Prequels, you have to wait for Obi-Wan and Yoda to educate Luke/the Audience in the OT...Lucas just expects you already know it or infer it. Episode Order doesn't work, from a story structure point-of-view.

The amount of Midi-chlorians living inside you, the better you can control The Force. It's explained in I and again in III.

[bobbyh64]

Can someone's midichlorian count ever change or is it a fixed number that someone is born with? I like to think it's not fixed and is just physical evidence of how strong someone is with the Force at a particular time in their life. Maybe some people are more prone to being strong with the Force without much effort while others are still able to work at it.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Can someone's midichlorian count ever change or is it a fixed number that someone is born with? I like to think it's not fixed and is just physical evidence of how strong someone is with the Force at a particular time in their life. Maybe some people are more prone to being strong with the Force without much effort while others are still able to work at it.

It can change...
Vader has a lot less than Anakin.
Vader also has less limbs than Anakin.

The novels/scripts said something to the effect that Palpatine was no longer happy with Vader because he was now weaker than before because of his loss of limbs.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Ahem.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/14/star-w...ms-in-5564223/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/p...wakens-7011406

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome...URL=&referrer=

Going to say it again, I'm a story structure monkey. With smart pre-writing, plotting out each trilogy, "the creator" could have blown people's doors off. As things now stand, you don't really need Episode 1 OR Episode 2, because Lucas dropped the dangling story threads from both. You really can just go from Empire to Sith and then back to the OT to wrap it up with Jedi. Both Episode 1 and 2 become filler because, in "the creator's" words, he wanted to play in his universe with the first two films and then "ran out of time" to tie things together in Sith.

Yeah I was thinking about Episode II and if it was really narratively essential to III or not. Phantom Menace I would say definitely no, virtually nothing in it has any impact on the other movies save for the mention of Qui-Gon towards the end of Sith.

But Clones? Hmmm.... a lot of it sure isn't needed. You might think you need to see Anakin and Padme's love story based on Anakin's decisions in III, but considering how bad and shallow it comes off I'd say no. What about the death of Anakin's mother and his slaughter of the sand people? It's definitely a big character moment, and yet in the context of Episode III it isn't really essential in how the story plays out-- everything really becomes about the visions of his wife and his growing resentment of the Jedi holding him back, which you can connect with the aftermath of his mother's death but you don't have to.

You certainly don't need to see Obi-Wan wandering around figuring out the Syfo-Dias clone mystery that doesn't really go anywhere. And Obi-Wan has no real arc in this film that really matters.

Other characters? Bail Organa is introduced but he might as well not have been, considering he's just kind of there and you wouldn't even know he was without checking the credits.

All I can think of is the introduction of Count Dooku and establishing the clone army. Not small things, but they occur later on towards the end of the movie.