Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[Vincent Pereira]

THE TWO TOWERS and RETURN OF THE KING were both 2K DIs, so in their case at least, shouldn't it just be a matter of downconverting the 2K DI files to 1080P High Definition?

Vincent

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

That's not too long ago and I know Warner has heard an earful about DNR, so maybe there is some hope it will be decent?

In all fairness to New Line and WB, The Two Towers has some dnr baked into the digital intermediate process as I explained in the past here (strike The Return of the King, as in retrospect, I’m not sure about that one)…….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=104

So, that will definitely contribute to the final Blu-ray appearance no matter what the WB mastering technician(s) could have done with the material. This, in and of itself, is probably of little detriment to all but the most obsessive-compulsive card carrying dnr police who view Blu-ray movies by staring at screenshots with magnifying glasses; however, if further grain reduction was done to this title during the production of the HD master or encoding process of the Blu-ray to decrease the data payload caused by film grain, it may indeed prove more objectionable to a wider home theater audience.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In all fairness to New Line and WB, The Two Towers has some dnr baked into the digital intermediate process as I explained in the past here (strike The Return of the King, as in retrospect, I’m not sure about that one)…….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=104

Penton,

Isn't this common with a lot of New Line/Warner films? It's been suspected they've been doing this for the last 8 or 9 years to make DVD encoding easier, and the practice hasn't been stopped (even though it should). Curious for your thoughts on the matter.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Penton,

Isn't this common with a lot of New Line/Warner films? It's been suspected they've been doing this for the last 8 or 9 years to make DVD encoding easier, and the practice hasn't been stopped (even though it should). Curious for your thoughts on the matter.

I’ll let Jeff answer that one.
In the post above, I’m referring to grain reduction applied during the DI process where you tune for the threee layers of the various camera stock.

[Jeff Kleist]

THE TWO TOWERS and RETURN OF THE KING were both 2K DIs, so in their case at least, shouldn't it just be a matter of downconverting the 2K DI files to 1080P High Definition?

It would be if the non-classics divisions of WB didn't have mastering policies in place that dictate the removal of all possible visual grain. They seem to have lightened up the heavy hand a bit in recent months (mostly on films by notable directors like Body of Lies or Dark Knight), but given the inherent look of LOTR, it's not going to take a lot to do it in. Keep in mind none of us have seen the resulting tapes yet, but better be pessimistic and wrong than optimistic and right in my book

Like I said, I've heard horror stories about NL's attempts, and if we all remember their policy was to smooth until every iota of grain is gone.

Isn't this common with a lot of New Line/Warner films? It's been suspected they've been doing this for the last 8 or 9 years to make DVD encoding easier, and the practice hasn't been stopped (even though it should). Curious for your thoughts on the matter.

There's more to it than that, but yes, that's ONE of the reasons

Penton is referring to "theraputic" DNR where they make the image look consistant from shot to shot and film stock to film stock.

[Batman1980]

LoTR is one of the most beloved franchises of all-time and while I would love a grain-filled transfer for all 3 movies, I love them so much I'll get them even if they DNRed every inch of the picture.

[Bobby Henderson]

If it was my decision to make, I would have Warner Home Video simply make the Blu-ray versions of the LOTR trilogy as accurate a representation of the original 2K digital intermediate master files as possible and that means removing as little of the built in grain as possible.

The motives of pleasing casual movie watchers who don't know any better seems silly to a certain extent. If you're going to blur out all the grain, why bother maintaining the movie's original aspect ratio? Many of the same people who hate any visible grain also hate letterbox black bars.

One suspicion I have with the grain removal policy is the studio possibly wanting to minimize the amount of work it has to do with encoding and re-encoding a movie for different methods of delivery. A high bit encode for BD can't be used cable/satellite delivery or over the air broadcast. But if the bit rate is already squeezed down a low level it may save additional work (and money) in prepping an encode to work on HBO or iTunes.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Penton is referring to "theraputic" DNR where they make the image look consistant from shot to shot and film stock to film stock.

I don’t know if I would say “therapeutic”, it kinda makes it sound like there is some disease process going on that needs to be remedied.

At that stage of the post production process, it was/is more of a creative choice aided by the true science of A/Bing the original unaltered source with the grain reduced print projected onto a 30-35 ft. screen in real time to see which one best visually presents the story as envisioned by the Director……and then go with the best one as tested.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wolverine1980

LoTR is one of the most beloved franchises of all-time and while I would love a grain-filled transfer for all 3 movies, I love them so much I'll get them even if they DNRed every inch of the picture.

lol, do NOT post that in some threads of some forums or else you will fare much the same way as this dude did with the AK-47………

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DprFYMvWXLo

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Wolverine1980

LoTR is one of the most overrated franchises of all-time and while I would love a grain-filled transfer for all 3 movies, I love them so much I'll get them even if they DNRed every inch of the picture.

Fixed.

[Penton-Man]

WOLVERINE! Are you goin take that ^ lying down ????????

[Jeff Kleist]

The thing that drove me the most crazy bout lOTR were the people who complained about spoilers

The books were written 60 years prior, and they're sitting at your local bookstore

[Vincent Pereira]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The thing that drove me the most crazy bout lOTR were the people who complained about spoilers

The books were written 60 years prior, and they're sitting at your local bookstore

You're talking about America here. Who reads?



Vincent

[BluDomain]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

You're talking about America here. Who reads?

Evidently a lot of people. And a hardcover new release
costs more that a blu-ray or DVD. Plus, you don't have
to worry about DNR or EE.

http://www.publishers.org/main/Press...tsJune2009.htm

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

WOLVERINE! Are you goin take that ^ lying down ????????

The funniest segment in "Clerks 2" was when the guys were arguing which franchise was better - "Star Wars" or "LOTR." It was freaking hilarious.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by BluDomain

Evidently a lot of people. And a hardcover new release costs more that a blu-ray or DVD. Plus, you don't have to worry about DNR or EE.

I think if enough Americans read books on a regular basis we would see a lot of book burning events. Book authors have quite a lot more latitude in what kinds of content they can put into a story than anyone in the movie industry.

If someone did a truly faithful movie adaptation of Stephen King's The Stand it would be rated NC-17. If someone accurately adapted Brave New World not only would the movie be rated NC-17, the movie's crew might get arrested. Hundreds upon hundreds of other novels have descriptively explicit content. The only reason why some of the more judgmental types in our society aren't organizing giant book burnings and broad literary censorship campaigns is those folks don't think enough Americans read any books for it to matter.

[GORT]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I think if enough Americans read books on a regular basis we would see a lot of book burning events. Book authors have quite a lot more latitude in what kinds of content they can put into a story than anyone in the movie industry.

If someone did a truly faithful movie adaptation of Stephen King's The Stand it would be rated NC-17. If someone accurately adapted Brave New World not only would the movie be rated NC-17, the movie's crew might get arrested. Hundreds upon hundreds of other novels have descriptively explicit content. The only reason why some of the more judgmental types in our society aren't organizing giant book burnings and broad literary censorship campaigns is those folks don't think enough Americans read any books for it to matter.

Did the First Amendment disappear suddenly.

[Bobby Henderson]

It has in the past when books in print were a more dominant form of entertainment.

[Jeff Kleist]

There are attempts to ban books every year

Obscenity laws have been upheld by the Supreme court, as unfortunately as that may be. "Community standards" is a very broad term, and widely variable

[Vincent Pereira]

Originally Posted by BluDomain

Evidently a lot of people. And a hardcover new release
costs more that a blu-ray or DVD. Plus, you don't have
to worry about DNR or EE....

Are you SURE? I haven't seen any 400% blow-up screen shots of the pages of any books lately. For all we know, the text in those books might be ridden with EE and DNR!

Vincent