Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by mark antony

I thinks it's because it's not really been heard in the best part of 25+ years, if it ever was on cd it was a very long time ago...also the "original" soundtrack master elements are actually a re-recording done in the 50's that for a variety of technical reasons are unlikely to ever match what Disney heard back in the 1930's.

Either soundtrack is a compromise, so they might as well have both, theres enough space!

M

And they both should be LOSSLESS.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by WMAangel

What?
Patton may have issues in the picture department, but the BD release is loaded in the extras department....

I'm sorry, I must've confused that title with a couple of other Fox titles. Sorry.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by hanser

Hi Jeff and sorry to bother you again. Do you know if somebody from Disney reads this thread or if they are even aware that there is a demand for the 1982 soundtrack for Fantasia? Or should I write them an email?

I'd write. Can't hurt.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

how about a new "2001" transfer? The current BD looks like crap next to the crystal clear/razor sharp 35mm print I saw projected. I can only imagine what a state of the art 8K (Baraka style) transfer from the original large-format element would yield. It would stomp all over the excuse-for-a-blu-ray we currently have.

I wouldn't expect a new transfer for 2001 for another 8-10 years. Warner has such a huge catalog that they are not quick to re-do titles they feel fine with. (And they feel fine with the 2001 disc).

[WMAangel]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

I'm sorry, I must've confused that title with a couple of other Fox titles. Sorry.

No problem...
Fox did leave the bonus features out of a lot of their earlier discs, but luckily Patton did not come out until they had turned the corner (for the most part) when it came to carrying over the supplements....

[garyrc]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

how about a new "2001" transfer? The current BD looks like crap next to the crystal clear/razor sharp 35mm print I saw projected. I can only imagine what a state of the art 8K (Baraka style) transfer from the original large-format element would yield. It would stomp all over the excuse-for-a-blu-ray we currently have.

I agree ...

... and the two 70 mm prints I saw in 1968 made the 35 mm print I saw in 1970 look bad -- only by comparison -- it was an excellent print by 35 mm standards. Arthur Clarke was present at the 35 mm showing (it was at a conference on the future in which we visualized solar as the primary source of electricity in 20 years --- man, were we stupid), and we wondered if he would be taken aback by the absence of that last degree of quality. He didn't comment.

Both 70 mm prints were just about as beautiful as prints can be -- then or now. The screens in the 70 mm theaters were bigger (as usual, then) and brighter. Although one scene early on was a bit soft (the scene in the big lobby with people sitting around in strange chairs), all the rest were wire sharp and detailed, even on the 85 foot curved screen in San Jose, even from the front row. Such an image! You could walk into it.

One has to wonder why Warners didn't use 8K, as was used in both Baraka and, I believe, the new BD of Lawrence of Arabia, both 70 mm films. In fact, of all films in history, what film would be a better candidate for 8K?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by mark antony

I thinks it's because it's not really been heard in the best part of 25+ years, if it ever was on cd it was a very long time ago...also the "original" soundtrack master elements are actually a re-recording done in the 50's that for a variety of technical reasons are unlikely to ever match what Disney heard back in the 1930's.

Either soundtrack is a compromise, so they might as well have both, theres enough space!

M

Fantasia/82 was indeed on CD. The Ave Maria in particular is a sonic wonder.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by garyrc

One has to wonder why Warners didn't use 8K, as was used in both Baraka and, I believe, the new BD of Lawrence of Arabia, both 70 mm films. In fact, of all films in history, what film would be a better candidate for 8K?

Because no one did 8k until Baraka, which was about a year later.

In essence - if a Blu-ray came out before 2008, lower your expectations to that period of time, because since then the bar has been raised MUCH higher. Warner should make a new transfer now for release in 2011. Unfortunately for them, by 2015 everyone will be disappointed with their 2011 disc from 8k when they could do it again in 24k...

And on and on the cycle goes. Sometimes you just gotta take the (very good if not pristine perfect) disc on the market.

[Jeff Kleist]

Eh, despite the fact that 2001 moves at the speed for an unexplained mass sponge migration, it's still a 2.5 hour movie shoved into HD DVD bandwidth and about 20GBs. There's definately room for improvement, as I've seen a lot of scenes, especially in the opening where it goes artificially soft

[hanser]

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

I'm not clear on why there is so much interest in the 1982 replacement soundtrack as opposed to the OST????

Because the sound quality of the original on the DVD is not very good, to be polite, and the 1982 was an excellent digital recording. I hate distortion in classical music. I saw Fantasia in the cinema in 1982 and was very disappointed when I first heard the original Soundtrack on Laserdisc (The DVD is not much better).

I do not want the original sound replaced, but it would be nice to have the 1982 soundtrack as an extra.

[hanser]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'd write. Can't hurt.

Do you per chance have an appropriate mail address for that?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by hanser

Do you per chance have an appropriate mail address for that?

Buena Vista Home Video
500 S. Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521
Telephone: 818-560-1000
Fax: 818-567-6464
E-Mail Page: http://www.disney.com/mail/
Web Site: http://disney.go.com/index

[Ernest Rister]

I'm not clear on why there is so much interest in the 1982 replacement soundtrack as opposed to the OST????

I thnk you'll find that many of the 30 somethings around here first experienced Fantasia via the 1982 version, and it is something that has never been experienced since. Sure, what Disney did in 1982 is just as bad as colorizing a black and white movie, but Fantasia isn't really a movie - it's an idea, an experiment. Walt himself approved a widescreen version of the film that cropped and artificially widened the aspect ratio. There is an ongoing controversy as to when the Pastoral sequence was altered to remove the Sunflower centaurette. Maltin said Walt did it in the 50's, the DVD says 1969 but can't explain why the 69 version has the same running time as the 1947 version. It was probably cut in the 60's and Maltin is wrong, but anyhoo - back to the point. Fantasia is probably the most altered and revised film in film history. I don't get too hung up on the different versions, because every time the film has come to theaters or to home video in the last 40 years, it's been a different version. Road show version, 47 version, widescreen version, cut version, digital stereo Kostal 1982 version, 1990 50th anniversary version, DVD attempt at recreating the road show version in 2000 -- you get the idea.

So at this point, I'd say bring on Fantasia 1982. Just so you know, they cut Deems Taylor out of the movie completely for the 1982 version. An off-screen Tim Matheson reads his original dialog while shots of the orchestra run underneath. I don't know if they could pull off doing a seamless branching version of the movie, but that would seem to be an obvious idea. When Fantasia came to home video, I took the video output from my laserdisc player, and the audio out from my cd player, and created my own version of F82. It took over nine hours, because the CD score runs ever-so-slightly faster than the video. After about 2 minutes, you'd be out of sync. You'd have to pause, find your edit starting point again, resync the audio, and continue.

The results were worth it - the dynamic range of tracks like "Ave Maria" and "Night on Bald Mountain" in particular are heart-stopping. Ave Maria has been a muddled mess in the modern releases. Mixing down all those optical tracks to three channel has not produced satisfying results. I've read that the Ave Maria in 1940 was the only "true" Fantasound experience (in fact, I think someone said it was the only time true Fantasound "switched on" during the original roadshow runs, employing all the separate channel capabilities). If all of these tracks had to be mixed down to the three channel version we have today, that might explain why it is the least satisfying audio of the original program.

Anyway, watching those visuals with a modern choir in digital stereo is gobsmacking.

So yeah, definitely in the camp who want Fantasia 1982 included with the new Blu-Ray.

[SquidPuppet]

Jeff,

I am aware of the recent deal struck between Warner Brothers and Netflix that delays titles for 28 days.

Other than that, do you know if studios limit the number of discs that Netflix can purchase?

Thats what I am being told by Netflix customer service as the reason for so many very long waits.

Thanks

[Jeff Kleist]

It wouldn't suprise me, though I've seen more patterns of preventing them from reselling as used what they buy, which accomplishes the same goal but equals more sales for the studio. Don't forget that striking this deal got NetFlix a big bump to their streaming offerings, which do a lot better for them anyway when it comes to margins.

Personally I'm pretty sure that RedBox is in a hell of a lot more trouble than Netflix. They're going to lose their case, and the venture captial for it is going to run out, which means they're not going to be able to pad it out. I've seen some reports on forums of Redboxes vanishing from some locations and/or not being restocked. $1 per rental simply isn't enough to cover purchasing and operating/distribution costs, even if it's just a box sitting on the corner, and there's no way they can do what they've been doing with the Fox/WB stuff, buying off the shelf and cover their costs selling them used. Blockbuster covers their purchase price in approximately 3 turns, and then can sell the disc for twice what they paid.

This part is strictly my personal opinion and should not be taken as gospel, or irrefutable truth:

The business of stealing or dumping, and holding media companies hostage due to your popularity is really starting to backfire. There are some websites that set themselves up specifically as a haven of piracy, and then went to the media companies with "look how popular we are stealing your stuff, you need to get in on this". Not being too huge internationally, or having a real clue about the internet, instead of suing the crap out of said company and seizing the site as a class action, they decided to work with them. Unfortunately depending on pirates as a reliable revenue stream is never a good idea In my opinion, Redbox pulled a similar strategy. They dumped kiosk rentals on the market at $1 and relied on volume to keep them alive long enough for the studios to take notice and have to work with them. Unfortunately, it looks like there's some cash flow issues, probably stemming from the fact that they're likely at best breaking even on the studios they did strike a bargain with, and the continued financial drain of high-output studios like WB purchasing at full retail. Realistically they need to turn every one of the deal discs a dozen times before there's profit, and the ones they buy off the shelf? Closer to twenty, not counting resale opportunities.

So yes, I believe, no matter what Lee Stewart thinks he sees in the Coinstar financial report's carefully chosen graphs, that RedBox is doomed, and that Netflix's physical operations are going to be winding down. The future of rental is on-demand services. The future of PURCHASED merchandise still remains very much in the physical, despite what a bunch of shills and bandwagon jumpers think.

[Jeff Kleist]

BTW- see if you can find a very special cameo in the new Toy Story trailer of a toy that's obscure to the US market, but beloved internationally

http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/toystory3/

[SquidPuppet]

Thanks Jeff. Its the first time in 3+ years that I have been dissatisfied with their service. Something changed drastically around November. The waits have become ridiculous.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
how about a new "2001" transfer? The current BD looks like crap next to the crystal clear/razor sharp 35mm print I saw projected. I can only imagine what a state of the art 8K (Baraka style) transfer from the original large-format element would yield. It would stomp all over the excuse-for-a-blu-ray we currently have.

Baraka? But the "scientist" at AVS that were responsible (self credited) to get Gangs of New York remastered trashed Baraka "The only thing that is worth praising in this transfer is the lossless audio" "(not sure why they haven't been able to get us a new transfer on that or 100's of other titles they bash.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

BTW- see if you can find a very special cameo in the new Toy Story trailer of a toy that's obscure to the US market, but beloved internationally

http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/toystory3/

I am stumped.

Come on June 18th.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

BTW- see if you can find a very special cameo in the new Toy Story trailer of a toy that's obscure to the US market, but beloved internationally

http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/toystory3/

I can't find the toy, but I recognize the opening music as something by Randy Newman excerpted out of Pleasantville.