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[Torsten Kaiser TLE]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

That's why I think that it is much better to start at 4k for wider movies (above 1.66 to 1) when all of the horizontal width is to be preserved - going from 2048 to 1920 pixels is a tough downconversion and downconversion from 4096 to 1920 can be done much better - provided as you say that suitable algorythms are used. I think a 2k scan of an old academy ratio element is also a good example of how to get better results with higher resolution as one would go from about 2048 by 1495 to 1480 by 1080 pixels.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Oliver,

Aspect ratio has nothing to do with the element scanned. 1.66 is not wider than 1.37. 35mm 4 perf is 4:3 no matter how you slice it. Super 35 and Academy are based upon the same frame. A frame is a frame. Both need to begin at least at 4k if working from originals. 6k can add something on newer stocks. From there, decisions are based upon what is being done and the purpose.

RAH

Robert,

I believe Oliver K meant something else - the gain via downconversion that you get/aim for in the final output to HD. Here, 1.37 even in 2K would benefit the most (compared to wide[r] ARs filmed with flat lenses) even at 2K resolution, since an absolute max 1556 vertically have to be fit into 1080 at HD confines. 1.66 would benefit less, and 1.85 even less than that as the frame is, as you correctly pointed out, not wider ON THE ELEMENT ITSELF at all no matter what the AR at 35/4 - so you lose vertical resolution as the number of possible pixel rows to be gained grows shorter (toward 1080) the wider the AR - again, except for anamorphic. And: 4K is, of course, NOT a general "must" for 35/4 to get to a good result. It very much depends on what the priority is. If its Digital Cinema, 4K and maybe higher (depending on the capability of the elements) is very much advised, as you so rightly said, especially when it comes to preservation. If its mastering to HD sources (HDCAMSR for Broadcast, Blu-ray) a very good 2K (especially for 1.37 or even smaller, like 1.19) or even really good HD SPIRIT master can work as well - if the (tight) budget (constraints) would otherwise not allow a release in the first place.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

What about Empire and Jedi? They should release it with one good and 2 terrible? You're also making the assumption that the Lucas people knew about this print at the time.

I'm going to say it again one last time

George Lucas does not want people watching this version. It's about 5 steps up from his desire to track down every copy of the Holiday Special and burn them. Therefore he would not allow the hundreds of thousands of dollars to re-assemble the original cuts, and restore the changed footage to the same level from the material currently in his archives. While the original crawl may have been transferred, it would have been done for archival purposes and they snagged it from there.

Whatever excuses they are making today about why. This is what it boils down to and is unlikely to change at all in the forseeable future. So keep your Lasers, I know there are fan restorations out there for you to find. While you may disagree with it, and while some of the changes (Han shoots first) are silly and inexcuseable, you cannot scream director's vision in one direction and then say "....except Lucas".

Unlike firing Ron Moore or JJ Abrhams, Lucas is the creator and legal owner of Star Wars, and therefore has the legal, moral and ethical right to do with the films as he pleases, up top and including making party streamers from the negative. People close to him have been trying for over a decade now to get him to relent, the answer is and continues to be an emphatic no.

Jeff, I love it when you tell it like it is.

Not only that lets say that further down the road he DOES decide to restore the originals and release it as a seperate set I now seriously doubt it would have the sales to make it worthwhile. The casual consumer would know they already have Star Wars on bluray and make the investment.

However, I would be OK if Lucas used a print to give the films their 70s early 80s look.

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by merrick97

However, I would be OK if Lucas used a print to give the films their 70s early 80s look.

Actually, it would not, as there is no way to get there from a print.

[Indyjones]

Bill / Jeff, any word if Robocop from the upcoming Trilogy will be the existing disc, or if it's a new remaster and/or will include the unrated cut?

[Jeff Kleist]

The current Robocop Blu-ray is the unrated version, it will almost certainly be the existing disc, though I could see them throwing in the DVD bonus disc

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Actually, it would not, as there is no way to get there from a print.

I meant just find an old 70mm print that was pre-restoration and give it a mild touch up and just release the thing!

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by merrick97

I meant just find an old 70mm print that was pre-restoration and give it a mild touch up and just release the thing!

Understood.

First, any original print struck before about 1982, even on SP stock, would be fully magenta or at least reasonably faded.

UK Dye transfer prints, and there are quite a few around, are too dense to be used.

Second, creating an original version can be done with a bit of thought and effort. If it's desired, why not just do it? There is no need to dupe old prints.

There are no overriding technical problems here. The owner seems desirous of having only the newer versions in distribution, and that is his prerogative.

RAH

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Understood.

First, any original print struck before about 1982, even on SP stock, would be fully magenta or at least reasonably faded.

UK Dye transfer prints, and there are quite a few around, are too dense to be used.

Second, creating an original version can be done with a bit of thought and effort. If it's desired, why not just do it? There is no need to dupe old prints.

There are no overriding technical problems here. The owner seems desirous of having only the newer versions in distribution, and that is his prerogative.

RAH

Im not one of those people who is going to push hard to have the originals on bluray, because I simply don't care for them the way most people do, but that seemed like a relatively easy way to make that happen. I stress "seemed" because I obviously have no idea as to what all is truly involved.

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Im not one of those people who is going to push hard to have the originals on bluray, because I simply don't care for them the way most people do, but that seemed like a relatively easy way to make that happen. I stress "seemed" because I obviously have no idea as to what all is truly involved.

It's probably a bit more tenuous than you perceive. You begin by doing an inventory and gathering necessary elements...

eye of newt
scale of dragon
hand of mummy
a large cauldron...

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

It's probably a bit more tenuous than you perceive. You begin by doing an inventory and gathering necessary elements...

eye of newt
scale of dragon
hand of mummy
a large cauldron...

LOL

[NL197]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

It's probably a bit more tenuous than you perceive. You begin by doing an inventory and gathering necessary elements...

eye of newt
scale of dragon
hand of mummy
a large cauldron...

Casting a mind-controlling spell on Lucas?

It may not be as 'powerful' as the Force but ya do the best you can with what you've got!

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

It's probably a bit more tenuous than you perceive. You begin by doing an inventory and gathering necessary elements...

eye of newt
scale of dragon
hand of mummy
a large cauldron...

Ah, clever. "Use the Farce"

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The current Robocop Blu-ray is the unrated version, it will almost certainly be the existing disc, though I could see them throwing in the DVD bonus disc

Just to add, individual releases of Robocop 2 and 3 have been announced by Fox for Japan. No new release of the original, which appears to mean the trilogy will have the same disc.

[Indyjones]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The current Robocop Blu-ray is the unrated version, it will almost certainly be the existing disc, though I could see them throwing in the DVD bonus disc

That shows how often I watch the Robo blu - for some reason I thought it was the R version!

[johndoyle123]

considering mgm financial situation how long do you think it will be until warner or fox buy them out ?

the quicker the better regarding catalog blu-rays

[jaaguir]

Jeff, any idea if the Fantasia movies are still on for December, or are they among the casualties of trying not to overcrowd the release schedule? Maybe it's too early for a press release but I've started wondering.

Thanks

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Torsten Kaiser TLE

Robert,

I believe Oliver K meant something else - the gain via downconversion that you get/aim for in the final output to HD. Here, 1.37 even in 2K would benefit the most (compared to wide[r] ARs filmed with flat lenses) even at 2K resolution, since an absolute max 1556 vertically have to be fit into 1080 at HD confines. 1.66 would benefit less, and 1.85 even less than that as the frame is, as you correctly pointed out, not wider ON THE ELEMENT ITSELF at all no matter what the AR at 35/4 - so you lose vertical resolution as the number of possible pixel rows to be gained grows shorter (toward 1080) the wider the AR - again, except for anamorphic.

That is what I wanted to say, thanks

Regarding scanning in 4k and costs due to this:

To follow up on the idea of oversampling shouldn't it be a possibility to scan in 4k and after that to take down the scan to Blu-Ray resolution with the best possible algorythms and only then to do cleanup, color correction etc.?

Didn't Disney do something similar with Sleeping Beauty except that the final output was 2k (2048 x 1080)?

[Jeff Kleist]

considering mgm financial situation how long do you think it will be until warner or fox buy them out ?

the quicker the better regarding catalog blu-rays

A long time since it looks like Spyglass is currently the front runner, and they would lamost certainly move distribution to Paramount

Jeff, any idea if the Fantasia movies are still on for December, or are they among the casualties of trying not to overcrowd the release schedule? Maybe it's too early for a press release but I've started wondering.

Far as I know it's still on. They don't even have December on their retail/media site yet.

[johndoyle123]

lol PARAMOUNT


so we wont be seeing any mgm releases as catalog then haha

i would much rather warner or fox any day of the week

[kefrank]

Bill/Jeff,

In light of Bill's most recent rumor mill post about a possible upcoming Kubrick Blu-ray box set from WB, could you guys check with WB about whether the color problem* in The Shining will be fixed?

*Things that should be yellow are pink in some shots, such as some of Danny's toys and the tennis ball. It's very noticeable and very jarring for people who have seen the movie many times.