Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[Arkadin]

well if that is true that's fantastic!
I hope you're right.

[DaViD Boulet]

Uncle Buck (just released) only offers lossy DTS audio.

Sigh. Weren't all the studios supposed to have moved past this issue by now? Even Warner was starting to push for lossless audio on many of its more recent TV releases on blu... it seemed we had finally turned this chapter and could just sit back and not have to worry.

Can those of you 'in the know' or at least who are in-touch with Universal folks please remind them at that the BD community has already gone through this issue, and we need them to stay on track.

Universal is a bit odd with blu-ray in regards to lossless sound... reps from the studio have actually told the admins over at HTF that lossless audio on blu-ray forces "comprised picture quality" because it consumes too much bandwidth. The irony of course is that most other studios manage to produce better looking blu-ray discs with lossless sound and don't seem to have a problem. I'm sure politics are at play here... either that or ignorance of how to properly present a film on blu-ray disc... but either situation is something that shouldn't be allowed to persist.

And please folks, we don't need folks to start suggesting that lossless audio is somehow only meaningful with soundtracks that are of top-quality. Just like grainy low-res film stock still looks more true to the source in 1080p than in 480p, so does lossless audio help to maintain fidelity with audio reproduction regardless of the limits of the source. The only debate should be why Universal just doesn't seem to get it (along with Paramount's occassional relapses as well) and how to get them on track.

[VinnyBartowski]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I don't think it's been in development long enough to be described as "hell". Far as I know they haven't even officially designated a studio partner



That nightmare with Chris Tucker is already on Blu-ray



Attempts to reboot the franchises bombed, no one is in any hurry. I would assume that WB will launch them as doublepacks down the line, and who knows what Paramount will do.

A follow-up question to this, but do you have any ideas if Hellbound: Hellraiser II or any of the Halloween sequels may be coming out anytime soon?

I know Miramax owns the last three Halloween sequels in the original franchise and they appear to be interested in starting to release many of their titles on Blu, but has there been any concrete chance?

Thank you.

[Jeff Kleist]

Universal is a bit odd with blu-ray in regards to lossless sound... reps from the studio have actually told the admins over at HTF that lossless audio on blu-ray forces "comprised picture quality" because it consumes too much bandwidth

Well, that was the case on HD DVD.....

Pretty sure there's a Hellraiser remake coming

Uncle Buck I'll ask

[captveg]

You guys need to relate to WB and their marketing department that it's a total dick move to not sell Lolita and Barry Lyndon separately for those who already bought the other 7 Kubrick titles in the box set on Blu. I don't care that Barry Lyndon and Lolita are barebones - I just want the movies in HD with lossless audio. Give me the option to pay $19.95 MSRP for each of them and I'll buy them. Insult me by not allowing me to buy them unless I rebuy 7 other movies and you will get none of my money on May 31st.

[Jeff Kleist]

They will eventually put these out as singles. Figured that you guys would be used to it by now

[captveg]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

They will eventually put these out as singles. Figured that you guys would be used to it by now

Warner's track record a couple years ago was to never do this. The last couple years they've done Big Box only releases (Woodstock, Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind) with a non-deluxe release as store exclusives or more readily available months later, which was bad enough, but at least one didn't repurchase discs you already own in those behemoths. This is where I draw the line of respectable business practices. I realize they've paid money to license Spartacus and Dr. Strangelove from Universal and Sony, respectively. But that doesn't help me - in fact, it makes matters worse because it makes the box set even MORE expensive with even MORE titles I already own on Blu.

It's just a sorry-ass business practice, one that is relying on fans of Kubrick who already bought the other discs to buy them again for what they should be able to get at a normal decent price. Well, Criterion will be getting most of my Blu budget in May, and WB will have to wait for their turn when they get around to actually releasing what should also be arriving 5/31.

[Jeff Kleist]

Well, if they follow pattern, you can get them from the UK

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Well, that was the case on HD DVD.....

Pretty sure there's a Hellraiser remake coming

Uncle Buck I'll ask

The Uni reps were telling the HTF boys that lossless audio was the reason that image quality was suffering on several Universal Blu-ray Discs well after the format war dust had settled. Having the admins arguing against lossless audio because of what the Uni reps were telling them was pretty much why I stopped posting in that forum.

p.s. thanks for taking up the question with Universal re: Uncle Buck.

[Jeff Kleist]

The Uni reps were telling the HTF boys that lossless audio was the reason that image quality was suffering on several Universal Blu-ray Discs well after the format war dust had settled. Having the admins arguing against lossless audio because of what the Uni reps were telling them was pretty much why I stopped posting in that forum

Reps are not tech people, and it's quite possible their information was old as well. It's not their job to be up on the latest nuances. It was certainly the case with HD DVD where lossless's extra data rate was often the difference between decent and ass.

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Reps are not tech people, and it's quite possible their information was old as well. It's not their job to be up on the latest nuances. It was certainly the case with HD DVD where lossless's extra data rate was often the difference between decent and ass.

Agreed. There's no doubt in my mind that the assertion that lossless audio was somehow to blame for the compromised image quality on select Universal titles was rediculously false. What I found bothersome was that lingering format-war politics were still surfacing and managing to mislead the leadership at a site purportedly founded to promote high-fidelity audio/video reproduction.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Agreed. There's no doubt in my mind that the assertion that lossless audio was somehow to blame for the compromised image quality on select Universal titles was rediculously false. What I found bothersome was that lingering format-war politics were still surfacing and managing to mislead the leadership at a site purportedly founded to promote high-fidelity audio/video reproduction.

So what are the former format war troublemakers up to these days? Does anyone still hang out at AVS?

I havent heard a peep about screenshot science in a while.

Btw Jeff,
Tell me the news that Activision is trying to acquire Take Two doesnt make you sick at your stomach. Since they killed Guitar Hero they need another franchise to exploit and ruin.

Yearly GTA games here we come.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by merrick97

So what are the former format war troublemakers up to these days? Does anyone still hang out at AVS?

I havent heard a peep about screenshot science in a while.

IMHO, AVS is still a great resource for the latest electronics consumer information with hands-on support. Many reputable industry professionals hangout in the technical forums.
Screenshot science is a different beast and has lost its credibility & luster to sites like Blu-ray.com.

Paul

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Having the admins arguing against lossless audio because of what the Uni reps were telling them was pretty much why I stopped posting in that forum.

You lasted a lot longer than I did. The lucky ones made it out alive and over here. I don't have a firm grasp on what kind of membership remains.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Universal is a bit odd with blu-ray in regards to lossless sound... reps from the studio have actually told the admins over at HTF that lossless audio on blu-ray forces "comprised picture quality" because it consumes too much bandwidth. .

The first thing one does when putting a BD together (or even a DVD together) is a "real-estate" budget. You look at all the tracks you have and the bandwidth needed for both audio and video and you see if you have enough room. If you don't, you start deciding upon various levels of compression, etc.

Obviously, since other studios have done it quite well, it's not credible to simply state that picture has to suffer if there are lossless tracks. I bet this started out as an engineer telling someone that "multiple lossless tracks and multiple versions of a (long) movie on one BD might have a negative impact on picture quality" and like a game of telephone, that message finally became that lossless audio negatively impacts PQ.

Personally (and I'm guessing), I think people were in a budget meeting and some non-tech exec said, "why can't we use the DVD audio master?" and the morons said, "okay" because they were too scared to speak up. Or maybe someone did speak up and the exec said, "Can you prove to me that we'll sell more copies with a lossless track?" And since you can't prove that, you back down. I've been in countless meetings over the years where a very similar line of thought dominated the discussions. It's why the quality of many products, even fast food, gets just a little bit worse every year.

[Uxi]

It's not even about the master, though, which is always in PCM IIRC. For some reason they ran it through a lossy encoder when doing their Blu-ray release. And at half DD bitrate is just salt in the wound, almost as if an HDDVD partisan was responsible for that. Anyone know what the video bitrate is?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

The Uni reps were telling the HTF boys that lossless audio was the reason that image quality was suffering on several Universal Blu-ray Discs well after the format war dust had settled. Having the admins arguing against lossless audio because of what the Uni reps were telling them was pretty much why I stopped posting in that forum.

p.s. thanks for taking up the question with Universal re: Uncle Buck.

I wonder if this can be remnants of the bad taste of HD DVD? Obviously HD DVD has been gone a long time, but could it be that some of the decisions on these titles happened when Universal was still in shovelware HD DVD mode?

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by Paul H

IMHO, AVS is still a great resource for the latest electronics consumer information with hands-on support. Many reputable industry professionals hangout in the technical forums.
Screenshot science is a different beast and has lost its credibility & luster to sites like Blu-ray.com.

Paul

Agreed, it is hard to beat AVS for help on the technology side. There seems to be pretty much a thread for every piece of equipment and a huge amount of knowledge out there to help get issues resolved. Plus the Audyssey thread and FAQ is a must to get the most out of the system and the CTO/founder is very active on the board to help people with issues.

I just never stray from the equipment and Audyssey areas.

[duggie walker]

Hey Jeff

Much as I'm ecstatic BARRY LYNDON and LOLITA are being released - and I'll be buying the box set because there's no way I'll be able to wait until 2012 - I'm really finding it hard to believe that there's no supplemental material on the films.

I know Bill's got a shopping list to take to Warners. Could I humbly request some confirmation of whether this is true or not? I'm still hoping maybe they haven't finalised the extras and so left them off of the press release....

[Drewza89]

What's the deal with WB releasing Point Break? Why would Fox give up the rights to such a popular movie?