Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Just please understand that I can't dish any details on specifics about TNG in terms of the specifics as to what's changed what's not. I would assume that all the ships that were shot on video will be replaced, as peter mentioned, the 30fps ships, the viewscreens, the animated control panels, and any of the episode specific ship shots. Probably phasers as well

I will say right now, especially seasons 1 and 2: DO NOT expect them to look amazing. They were shot 16mm. Better than the DVDs? They should kick their asses.

Okay, I'm confused. I'm not aware of any miniatures that were shot on 480i video (except maybe a very, very few tiny background elements in a couple episodes in the first half of season 1)... and all the behind the scenes photographs I have seen indicate that Edward R. Brown's cinematography in the first two seasons was done with 35mm Panavision cameras. Plus it didn't have that dead-giveaway, indelible 16mm look like Young Indiana Jones had.



http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...ostills005.jpg
http://www.trekcore.com/specials/alb...ilming_tng.jpg

[Jeff Kleist]

Better compatibility with the limited video compositing systems of the time Especially since for most of the run it was still being done analog.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Better compatibility with the limited video compositing systems of the time Especially since for most of the run it was still being done analog.

Then why wouldn't they shoot the whole thing at 30fps?!

[Jeff Kleist]

Don't forget that typically the show was very brightly lit, which helps a lot. 16mm is standard for syndication shows because it saves money. As the show grew more popular, they made the move to 35mm in season 3

Stargate SG-1 did the same thing a decade later, they didn't move to HD mastering until season 6, and I don't think any of the FX were done HD until the late seasons of Atlantis. They still used their SD models for the HD shots, one of the most glaring being the mothership attack on earth in Stargate Continuum where a horde of blurry Goa'uld attack the razor sharp earth

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The new model elements were also shot at 30fps 35MM to avoid 3/2 pulldown in post so they can't really use those anyway, since the HD versions will be at 1080/24p.

Well, they could either slow those shots down to 80% and trim the shots accordingly to fit the cuts, or they could go to FotoKem and run them through their Arri Relativity software. Either of those solutions would be cheaper than hiring a dozen CG artists for several years, especially since most shots were re-used many, many times.

http://www.arri.de/digital_intermedi...elativity.html

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

As the show grew more popular, they made the move to 35mm in season 3.

I'm not asking this antagonistically, but do you have proof of this that explains away the pictures I posted? Those look like 35mm magazines to my eyes.

[Jeff Kleist]

No not all all. That shot is probably from the pilot, which very well may have been shot 35mm, but they went 16mm when they entered production.

Well, they could either slow those shots down to 80% and trim the shots accordingly to fit the cuts, or they could go to FotoKem and run them through their Arri Relativity software. Either of those solutions would be cheaper than hiring a dozen CG artists for several years, especially since most shots were re-used many, many times.

The people that would be doing the FX is almost certainly CBS Digital, who did the TOS remaster. You can reuse materials made in CG too Most of these ships that appear in TNG already have CG models in the archives, so most of the work is probably pretty straightforward.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

That shot is probably from the pilot, which very well may have been shot 35mm, but they went 16mm when they entered production.

I remember hearing about the pilot being shot on 35mm.

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

No not all all. That shot is probably from the pilot, which very well may have been shot 35mm, but they went 16mm when they entered production.

But the second shot I posted is from season two. Note the mustard uniform on Worf? Also, there is no visual quality drop from "Encounter At Farpoint" to "The Naked Now." They look like they were shot on the same gauge stock.

Here is a location still from the Season 3 episode "The Survivors." See, same size film magazine as in seasons 1 & 2. It looks 35mm to me.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...estills004.jpg

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Most of these ships that appear in TNG already have CG models in the archives, so most of the work is probably pretty straightforward.

Yeah, but what about all the unique alien of the week ships?

[Jeff Kleist]

Well Max, we're working on getting more information. I'll do my best to get a clarification on it one way or the other, but Paramount is not answering anyone's questions on the matter. Hmmmmmmmmm

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Better compatibility with the limited video compositing systems of the time Especially since for most of the run it was still being done analog.

Jeff, all seasons of TNG were shot 35MM for live action using Panavision cameras, as well as all of the ship/model elements not done at ILM by Image G. Animation, such as phasers, were generated on digital video at The Post Group, later at Digital Magic. Deflector shields, planets and some mattes were done in Mirage, another digital video system. The Mirage could take textures fed into it and map them into shapes. The shields were a mylar pom pom, planets were often interestingly textured photos of rocks.

Seasons 1 & 2 look worse than the others because they uses *composite* digital video for the master.

Season 3 they switched to digital component. Keep in mind component digital requires 3 times the data, hence the delay.

All of ILM's model elements were done in VistaVision, about 40 shots. "A lot of people think VistaVision for television is absurd because it is so much larger than the television format, but the benefits of compositing images with VistaVision are tremendous. When it is transferred the grain size of the film is automatically reduced sixty percent." - Rob Legato, VFX supervisor (who went on to supervise shows like Apollo 13 at Digital Domain).

Datalore will be an interesting episode to redo because of all the split screen photography in it.

Interestingly, some FX shots of the show were done with anamorphic lenses. Why? Deliberate panning and scanning of FX shots! It's easier of course to composite a static image, and then add then pan later. A good example is in the second season premiere The Child, when Picard opens hailing frequencies as he's getting out of his chair and approaches the viewscreen.

At the time, Paramount didn't take compositing on video lightly: it eliminated the possibility of combining episodes and releasing them as features overseas. It was strictly a budget issue since TNG would have so many more effects compared to other shows. It also allowed higher quality for those effects.

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Well Max, we're working on getting more information. I'll do my best to get a clarification on it one way or the other, but Paramount is not answering anyone's questions on the matter. Hmmmmmmmmm

I certainly appreciate and thank you for all that you've been able to find out thus far. You're a great resource for us. I'm going to make one more point and then drop it because I'm getting a little strident and I'm sure you're tired of arguing this point, so...

I just noticed that the third image I posted has Troi with the bun hairdo. She only wore that post pilot.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett

Well, they could either slow those shots down to 80% and trim the shots accordingly to fit the cuts, or they could go to FotoKem and run them through their Arri Relativity software. Either of those solutions would be cheaper than hiring a dozen CG artists for several years, especially since most shots were re-used many, many times.

http://www.arri.de/digital_intermedi...elativity.html

I also think since once a CG model is "built", it can be reused as often as they like with any movement simply a new render. One goal is to eliminate all those stock shots. The producers thought they could get away with using those 40 shots of the ship (like on the original series) but quickly realized they couldn't and had Greg Jein build the smaller 4 foot model for the third season on for new shots. Note that once the other shows switched to CG (DS9, VOY, ENT) there were many, many different shots of the ships.

Also remember TOS Remastered stopped the "stock shot" approach and gave us all new shots of the Enterprise and other ships.

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I also think since once a CG model is "built", it can be reused as often as they like with any movement simply a new render. One goal is to eliminate all those stock shots. The producers thought they could get away with using those 40 shots of the ship (like on the original series) but quickly realized they couldn't and had Greg Jein build the smaller 4 foot model for the third season on for new shots. Note that once the other shows switched to CG (DS9, VOY, ENT) there were many, many different shots of the ships.

Also remember TOS Remastered stopped the "stock shot" approach and gave us all new shots of the Enterprise and other ships.

I could live with that, and you make good points. I just hope they preserve the original work at the highest res possible for branching. But I realize that's probably asking too much if they go 100% CGI.

[Jeff Kleist]

There's nothing excessive about VistaVision ever. I wish they'd use it instead of Super35. Mixing it up with the original shots would be fine, but I expect many of them will be kept intact because they have plenty of resolution to look scrumptious. If I recall, several of them were used in Generations, so they're definately up to the resolution task.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

There's nothing excessive about VistaVision ever.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett

I could live with that, and you make good points. I just hope they preserve the original work at the highest res possible for branching. But I realize that's probably asking too much if they go 100% CGI.

No comment on my lengthy treatise?

[Maxwell Everett]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No comment on my lengthy treatise?

Looks solid to me.

Though I didn't realize Legato used anamorphics in season two before that shot in "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" when Picard moves in front of the viewscreen when the Enterprise is hiding from the Borg in the nebula. I'll have to look at "The Child" again.

I know he used them for split screen work in that first season DS9 episode he directed, "If Wishes Were Horses."

This is another reason CBS should consult with the VFX supervisors. They need to transfer these various format shots correctly. I would hate to buy Season 3 of TNG on Blu and see that anamorphic shot of Picard distorted and squashed horizontally with no camera move!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett

Looks solid to me.

Though I didn't realize Legato used anamorphics in season two before that shot in "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" when Picard moves in front of the viewscreen when the Enterprise is hiding from the Borg in the nebula. I'll have to look at "The Child" again.

I know he used them for split screen work in that first season DS9 episode he directed, "If Wishes Were Horses."

This is another reason CBS should consult with the VFX supervisors. They need to transfer these various format shots correctly. I would hate to buy Season 3 of TNG on Blu and see that anamorphic shot of Picard distorted and squashed horizontally with no camera move!

Actually the anamorphics were used starting in season 1!

The shot when Picard goes between "ghost" crewman on the bridge of the USS Stargazer in "The Battle" is one. Another is in the first Ferengi episode "The Last Outpost". Quiz: I'll let you guess that one. No prizes.