HDMI Cables

[blujacket]

Monoprice has them too.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...04&cp_id=10419

[rded]

Originally Posted by xneox

Over the weekend, on the new display, I noticed a lot of grain and some sparkles in Lord of War. I had really flexed the end of my Belden Series 1 from BJC when I hung the V10, as the inputs are lower, and I tilt down, and I hadn't discovered the 90 degree HDMI adapter yet.

ANYWAY, I went straight to BB to find out for myself, with my eyes. I put down $130 for the Monster Cable THX1000 8' HDMI. Went home. Connected it.

The grain was worse.

Needless to say, BB owns the cable again (fantastic return policy, that BB). Now this certainly illustrates further the benefit to avoiding Monster Cable, but if truly all 1s and 0s, why did the cable actually make a visible difference, if only for the worse?

Oh, and the grain and sparkles were in the movie itself. I figured as much, but whatever.

Have you ever thought the opposite, that maybe the movie was shot with obvious and intentional grain and the monster cable just revealed more of that?

[xneox]

Originally Posted by rded

Have you ever thought the opposite, that maybe the movie was shot with obvious and intentional grain and the monster cable just revealed more of that?

Well not until NOW. Great. Now I have to go blow $130 again.

[rded]

Originally Posted by xneox

Well not until NOW. Great. Now I have to go blow $130 again.

Well I'm not saying buy monster cables again. Just buy a different brand that has a good reputation- like audioquest/kimber/nordost etc...And a lot of people thought Chizzap30 and Naturephoto1 were kidding when they said different hdmi cable brands differ in AQ and PQ

[xneox]

Originally Posted by rded

Well I'm not saying buy monster cables again. Just buy a different brand that has a good reputation- like audioquest/kimber/nordost etc...And a lot of people thought Chizzap30 and Naturephoto1 were kidding when they said different hdmi cable brands differ in AQ and PQ

That would be admitting that the Blue Jeans Cable Belden Series 1 DRYER CORD of an HDMI cable is sub-par. Is this possible?

[rded]

Originally Posted by xneox

That would be admitting that the Blue Jeans Cable Belden Series 1 DRYER CORD of an HDMI cable is sub-par. Is this possible?

No...since you've spent or if you're looking to spend $130 on and HDMI cables, then look into the above brands that I mentioned but its up to you. I use all monster HDMI cables myself but had harrased the managers from BB and CC(back then) to just throw them in for free when I purchased my TV and or bluray player.

[xneox]

To be fair, I don't want to spend that much on a HDMI cable, but I can't deny the difference I saw...and since you posed an alternate perspective (one that makes a lot of sense), now I'm obsessing. So now you've got me seriously considering a 2m Wyrewizard.

[rded]

Originally Posted by xneox

To be fair, I don't want to spend that much on a HDMI cable, but I can't deny the difference I saw...and since you posed an alternate perspective (one that makes a lot of sense), now I'm obsessing. So now you've got me seriously considering a 2m Wyrewizard.

Right on my friend.

[xneox]

Now that raises another question...am I losing some of the theoretical improvement by still having to run whatever high-end cable through the right-angle adapter?

[Chizzap30]

Originally Posted by rded

Well I'm not saying buy monster cables again. Just buy a different brand that has a good reputation- like audioquest/kimber/nordost etc...And a lot of people thought Chizzap30 and Naturephoto1 were kidding when they said different hdmi cable brands differ in AQ and PQ

And I was most certainly not kidding. The Silver Screen HDMI from Nordost is amazing.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Chizzap30

And I was most certainly not kidding. The Silver Screen HDMI from Nordost is amazing.

It better be.

I called a retailer near me that stocks them. I would have to get a 2 meter HDMI cable. If I get three, they would sell them to me for $255.00 each. If one, $315.00.

[Y3k Bug]

Originally Posted by rded

...And a lot of people thought Chizzap30 and Naturephoto1 were kidding when they said different hdmi cable brands differ in AQ and PQ

How do you propose that a cable makes ones "one-ier" and zeroes "zero-ier"?

It's digital, as long as the signal gets there it will look exactly the same.

[xneox]

Originally Posted by Y3k Bug

How do you propose that a cable makes ones "one-ier" and zeroes "zero-ier"?

It's digital, as long as the signal gets there it will look exactly the same.

I used to think the same thing...but like walking in on your parents "doing the taxes", some things can't be un-seen.

The picture from the Monster Cable THX1000 HDMI cable was different than that of my BJC HDMI cable. I perceived it as having more grain, so I brought it back...but rded makes a good point - if that's how the movie was intended, than it is safe to say that the image was in fact sharper.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Chizzap30

And I was most certainly not kidding. The Silver Screen HDMI from Nordost is amazing.

I was not kidding about our preliminary tests with the Wireworld Silver Starlight 5 squared HDMI cables either; but again, these were preliminary tests.

Originally Posted by Y3k Bug

How do you propose that a cable makes ones "one-ier" and zeroes "zero-ier"?

It's digital, as long as the signal gets there it will look exactly the same.

Because I suspect that it is more than just 1s and 0s. As I have mentioned in the past in other threads including the following comparing stock versus upgraded (heavily modified) components:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=92103

Differences could be heard between the machines through the HDMI cables. The HDMI cables were identical, the only differences being the stock versus the upraded Onkyo 885 and the Denon 3800 BDCI. Such things as the designs of the equipment, the noise reduction, shielding, damping, filters, and parts replacement could be noted over the HDMI as well as the analog cables. If it were only 1s and 0s you would expect the machines to sound identical and they did not.

Do you think that all players, receivers, Pre/Pros sound the same with the information transferred over HDMI cables? Do you think that all players carrying information over HDMI cables to the same receiver or Pre/Pro will sound the same regardless of the cost, design, parts, shielding, damping etc.? If you could hook up a Sony Walkman via HDMI, do you think that it would sound the same as example the sound coming through the new Oppo?

The same line of reasoning for the preliminary testing between different HDMI cables could be suggested for the different lengthed (1 and 2m length) HDMI cables as well as the cables made by Wireworld, MIT, and Audioquest. There were differences noted audibly and visually when viewed on an Hitachi Plasma TV.

Rich

[Y3k Bug]

First I apologize, I didn't see anything related to HDMI cables in your player comparison thread. I wasn't able to go through all ten pages though, so if I missed the relevant page, please point me to it...

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

...Because I suspect that it is more than just 1s and 0s...

Well either you are wrong or the HDMI organization is being dishonest. From their website:

Q. What is HDMI?

HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) is the first and only industry-supported, uncompressed, all-digital audio/video interface.

All digital means 1's and 0's. IF there's anything else, then it's not all digital.

As I have mentioned in the past in other threads including the following comparing stock versus upgraded (heavily modified) components:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=92103

Differences could be heard between the machines through the HDMI cables. The HDMI cables were identical, the only differences being the stock versus the upraded Onkyo 885 and the Denon 3800 BDCI. Such things as the designs of the equipment, the noise reduction, shielding, damping, filters, and parts replacement could be noted over the HDMI as well as the analog cables. If it were only 1s and 0s you would expect the machines to sound identical and they did not.

Maybe I'm misreading what you are saying, but of course 2 different players are going to sound different. The cables are not inducing the difference, the way the players interpret the 1's and 0's is what makes the difference. The cables only transport the 1's and 0's from one machine to another. There is no way for them to change said signals (over not too long distances) and therefore they would be identical in the cables.

Do you think that all players, receivers, Pre/Pros sound the same with the information transferred over HDMI cables? Do you think that all players carrying information over HDMI cables to the same receiver or Pre/Pro will sound the same regardless of the cost, design, parts, shielding, damping etc.?

What do players have to do with the cables? Of course different players etc.. will sound different. It's not because of the cables, it's because they are different players. I will say they will send/receive the exact same signal regardless of cable used. Again, the cable doesn't fiddle with the 1's and 0's. It just takes em in one end and spits them out the other.

If you could hook up a Sony Walkman via HDMI, do you think that it would sound the same as example the sound coming through the new Oppo?

If they are sending the same data to the same playing device, then yes, absolutely.

The same line of reasoning for the preliminary testing between different HDMI cables could be suggested for the different lengthed (1 and 2m length) HDMI cables as well as the cables made by Wireworld, MIT, and Audioquest. There were differences noted audibly and visually when viewed on an Hitachi Plasma TV.

Whose testing?

[Y3k Bug]

Originally Posted by xneox

I used to think the same thing...but like walking in on your parents "doing the taxes", some things can't be un-seen.

The picture from the Monster Cable THX1000 HDMI cable was different than that of my BJC HDMI cable. I perceived it as having more grain, so I brought it back...but rded makes a good point - if that's how the movie was intended, than it is safe to say that the image was in fact sharper.

I don't doubt you perceived a difference. I just doubt that the difference was actually there. If you could post a video showing the output, changing nothing but the HDMI cable and showing a visible difference then I might be more inclined to believe... but the science says that it's going to be the same thing.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Y3k Bug

How do you propose that a cable makes ones "one-ier" and zeroes "zero-ier"?

It's digital, as long as the signal gets there it will look exactly the same.

I have a 6 ft Monoprice HDMI which cost me $3.56. To upgrade to the Silver Screen HDMI from Nordos, it will cost $315.00 plus tax=$342.56, 100 times what my Mono cost. IT BETTER make the ones "one-ier" and zeroes "zero-ier"

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Y3k Bug

Maybe I'm misreading what you are saying, but of course 2 different players are going to sound different. The cables are not inducing the difference, the way the players interpret the 1's and 0's is what makes the difference. The cables only transport the 1's and 0's from one machine to another. There is no way for them to change said signals (over not too long distances) and therefore they would be identical in the cables.

What do players have to do with the cables? Of course different players etc.. will sound different. It's not because of the cables, it's because they are different players. I will say they will send/receive the exact same signal regardless of cable used. Again, the cable doesn't fiddle with the 1's and 0's. It just takes em in one end and spits them out the other.

Whose testing?

As to the comparison between the players, the players were the same except for the modifications made to the machines. It is evident that the HDMI cables can in fact carry the different "sound" produced by the same machines that were either stock or modified.

As to the question of the differences between HDMI cables, again, like the machines that send the information there are differences in the cable design, shielding, etc. Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company and I made the preliminary testing of the HDMI cables. As in the case with Coaxial cables, we found that the 2m lengths of identical HDMI cables sounded better than the same cable in a 1m length. We heard and saw differences when comparing the audio and visual performance on an Hitachi Plasma TV including better color, contrast, fewer jaggies etc. playing the same DVDs and Blu-ray disks through upgraded Denon 3800 BDCI players with the Wireworld Silver Starlight Squared HDMI cables than the Audioquest or the MIT 2m cables.

You are welcome to try your own testing, but it must be understood that for our testing which was preliminary we were using high end and highly modified equipment which may have allowed us to see and hear what may not be possible with lesser equipment.

As to the comparison of the audio performance between the upgraded and stock Onkyo 885 and Denon 3800 BDCI those tests were conducted by me with HDMI, Coaxial, and analog cables. I was unable to get anyone else from the forum to participate in the testing after placing the request online for over a months time.

Additionally, previously I had made some fairly extensive testing when visiting the Upgrade Company a year ago this July as well as this past June comparing the audio performance of equipment. All of the testing last year was done through analog cables and most was done through analog cables this past June, however, as noted we did make some of the testing for the Coaxial and HDMI cables as well.

Rich

[rded]

Originally Posted by Y3k Bug

I don't doubt you perceived a difference. I just doubt that the difference was actually there. If you could post a video showing the output, changing nothing but the HDMI cable and showing a visible difference then I might be more inclined to believe... but the science says that it's going to be the same thing.

Y3k: Let me ask you a fair question- Have you tried out different brands of HDMI cables and tried to ascertain if there are difference in AQ and PQ? Its just that your statements are so authoritative and final as if you had gone through all the battery of test yourself.
Xneox and I were just having a friendly chat and I merely recomended alternative brands to him.... As far as my experience with hdmi cables: i have 3 freebie monster cables connected to BDP-receiver-tv and 1 rocketfish and 1 Generic($7) hdmi from frys. For the longest time, I was using the monsters and rocket fish(cablebox-receiver) but bought a BDP for the room so got me the genwric cable and first thing I noticed was WTF! What a degraded signal...Now does that merit that I get a better Hdmi cable? My answer is no because its just for cable viewing and am not that meticulous about it!

[xneox]

Originally Posted by Y3k Bug

I don't doubt you perceived a difference. I just doubt that the difference was actually there.

This has become the favored posture in these discussions, and until I experienced it, I leaned that way too.

The one thing you forget is that in most discussions, people are seeing a difference that they want or expect to see...they are seeing an improvement. Your argument has some merit under those circumstances.

I saw something that I, at the time, perceived to be a decrease in quality, when I expected to see no change, or hoped to see a positive change. Certainly I did not want, nor expect, to see a decrease in quality...and yet, there it was (or so I thought). For perception alone to become an individual's reality, there must be a certain level of expectation, desire, or fear (fear being a form of expectation)...and in this case, it was the opposite. Your argument has no merit under these circumstances.