HDMI Cables

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by Hammie

I buy my cables based on aesthetics and construction. I have no problem paying a little more for a nice looking cable.

I have cables from Blue Jeans, Vintage Audio Labs, Monoprice, and Acoustic Research. However, I'm looking at different manufacturers so I can possibly buy all matching cables. Even though they are hidden and rarely ever seen, I like uniform aesthetics. Just call me weird, but that is how I am wired.

Atleast you're honest and admit you prefer the way a cable "looks" instead of trying to convince us of performance gains which I respect. It's your money, buy what you want, but we all have a right to comment if we think we're being sold something that doesn't add up when it comes to the cost/performance ratio factor.

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Another forum member that thinks that they know everything about cables and that they make no difference in performance. You might think differently with better quality gear and quite possibly Acoustic Room Treatments. System performance is only as good as the weakest link and everything in the system contributes to the sound.

Rich

There are experts on this website/forum who are contributors especially on the "Speaker" section that have done many back to back testing and owned countless cables and have said there are no performance gains such as member Big Daddy who is a moderator here. https://forum.blu-ray.com/member.php?u=21086

I guarantee if we were to put you in a dark room and do back to back blind sound tests with multiple wires of which you didn't know which ones were being used that you couldn't tell a difference.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

There are experts on this website/forum who are contributors especially on the "Speaker" section that have done many back to back testing and owned countless cables and have said there are no performance gains such as member Big Daddy who is a moderator here. https://forum.blu-ray.com/member.php?u=21086

I guarantee if we were to put you in a dark room and do back to back blind sound tests with multiple wires of which you didn't know which ones were being used that you couldn't tell a difference.

And there are many of us including myself on this and many other fora who have found that there is differences in the sound of cables. Frank (Big Daddy) and I are also familiar with each others views on this subject and we are both friends and have much mutual respect for one another. Whether you can recognize the differences consistently in blind A/B/X tests or not does not change that there may be differences in the sound and those differences may be picked up on and recognized through extended listening.

Rich

[My_Two_Cents]

Why are we arguing speaker (or other analog) interconnects in the digital HDMI cable thread? It's not at all applicable.

There has been enough written, researched, reviewed and evaluated as it relates to HDMI cables to affirm that "high-end" perform NO different than inexpensive cables, as long as the signal is being passed fully (clean picture and audio). Super-duper hexavalent chromium infused 5% silver cables with 8 layers of kevlar monofilament shielding will not result in a better A/V signal transfer than that from a Monoprice, BJC or a dozen other inexpensive brands cable.

If there has been new data to support otherwise (aside from "I hear/see a difference"), I'd love to read it, and it should be referenced in this thread.

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

And there are many of us including myself on this and many other fora who have found that there is differences in the sound of cables. Frank (Big Daddy) and I are also familiar with each others views on this subject and we are both friends and have much mutual respect for one other. Whether you can recognize the differences consistently in blind A/B/X tests or not does not change that there may be differences in the sound and those differences may be picked up on and recognized through extended listening.

Rich

And there are many trained experts engineers in this field who disagree with you, and that's the whole point, to have experts claim they can hear a difference and have other experts claim they can't hear a difference proves that the cost/performance ratio factor of these cables is a rip off, there is no justifcation to spend hundreds of dollars on cables. It's your right to spend what you want with your money, it's also our right to criticize and judge you for making outrageous decisions and then try to convince others those ridiculous opinions are worth it.

It's like the debate between "Man Made" Global Warming, plenty of Scientists on both sides of the isle disagree on the validity of it which proves people should NOT be spending thousands upon thousands of dollars transforming their homes with solar panels and wind mills and hydrogen furnaces.

Go spend $1000 dollars on new spark plugs in your car or buy the latest Mobil 1 high end motor oil designed for F1 cars and put it in your car and claim you can feel and hear a difference.

And this thread is about HDMI cables...There is no documented proof and evidence that more expensive HDMI cables makes a difference in PQ.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

And there are many trained experts engineers in this field who disagree with you, and that's the whole point, to have experts claim they can hear a difference and have other experts claim they can't hear a difference proves that the cost/performance ratio factor of these cables is a rip off, there is no justifcation to spend hundreds of dollars on cables. It's your right to spend what you want with your money, it's also our right to criticize and judge you for making outrageous decisions and then try to convince others those ridiculous opinions are worth it.

It's like the debate between "Man Made" Global Warming, plenty of Scientists on both sides of the isle disagree on the validity of it which proves people should NOT be spending thousands upon thousands of dollars transforming their homes with solar panels and wind mills and hydrogen furnaces.

Go spend $1000 dollars on new spark plugs in your car or buy the latest Mobil 1 high end motor oil designed for F1 cars and put it in your car and claim you can feel and hear a difference.

And this thread is about HDMI cables...There is no documented proof and evidence that more expensive HDMI cables makes a difference in PQ.

No, but differences in HDMI cables may possibly be heard though not necessarily seen. By the way, Mobil 1 as well as other synthetic motor oils do extend the life of an engine due to lower wear on engine parts.

Rich

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Why are we arguing speaker (or other analog) interconnects in the digital HDMI cable thread? It's not at all applicable.

There has been enough written, researched, reviewed and evaluated as it relates to HDMI cables to affirm that "high-end" perform NO different than inexpensive cables, as long as the signal is being passed fully (clean picture and audio). Super-duper hexavalent chromium infused 5% silver cables with 8 layers of kevlar monofilament shielding will not result in a better A/V signal transfer than that from a Monoprice, BJC or a dozen other inexpensive brands cable.

If there has been new data to support otherwise (aside from "I hear/see a difference"), I'd love to read it, and it should be referenced in this thread.

Ric,

My response was particularly in respect to Oppopioneers comments regarding speaker cables.

Also, this is one of many threads over at Whats Best Forum in which we discuss jitter and sound through cables and in the is case Coax and HDMI:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...i+cables+audio

I know that is lengthy and you may wish to look a little; also for Coax and HDMI cables it has been suggested that 6' or 2m Coax and HDMI cables have better audio performance due to reflection, etc.

Rich

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

No, but differences in HDMI cables may possibly be heard though not necessarily seen.

What scientific research and proof is there of this? If you got any links of engineers doing research in back to back testing and there are noticeable differences in SQ and PQ I will admit my ignorance and admit you were right, plus it would be a fascinating and interesting read.

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

By the way, Mobil 1 as well as other synthetic motor oils do extend the life of an engine due to lower wear on engine parts.

Rich

This is the whole point, is it worth more than Castrol, Penzoil, Havoline, Amsoil etc and why? A lot of it is marketing claims and hype not proven in a controlled professional setting. Samething with cables/wires...scroll through the pages of Sound & Vision and every cable maker claims their cables sounds better.

Also, where are these high priced cables made? Most likely in China all in the same factory by Copartner the world's largest cable maker who makes cables for many companies. I like Belden/Bluejeans because part of their cable stock is made in the U.S.

I'll stick with Belden/Bluejeans or Monoprice and "IF" I ever want to spend just a tiny more for cables I might purchase Signal Cable based more on aesthetics.

As for coaxial cables, I use the Belden/Bluejeans 1694A in an RG-6 type cable, 6 feet long.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

And there are many trained experts engineers in this field who disagree with you, and that's the whole point, to have experts claim they can hear a difference and have other experts claim they can't hear a difference proves that the cost/performance ratio factor of these cables is a rip off, there is no justifcation to spend hundreds of dollars on cables. It's your right to spend what you want with your money, it's also our right to criticize and judge you for making outrageous decisions and then try to convince others those ridiculous opinions are worth it.

It's like the debate between "Man Made" Global Warming, plenty of Scientists on both sides of the isle disagree on the validity of it which proves people should NOT be spending thousands upon thousands of dollars transforming their homes with solar panels and wind mills and hydrogen furnaces.

Go spend $1000 dollars on new spark plugs in your car or buy the latest Mobil 1 high end motor oil designed for F1 cars and put it in your car and claim you can feel and hear a difference.

And this thread is about HDMI cables...There is no documented proof and evidence that more expensive HDMI cables makes a difference in PQ.

I disagree with your statement that I have highlighted, I think the 2 sentences should be the other way around, reversed. You should only criticize and judge if someone is trying to convince everybody else of their beliefs, but not if the member is merely stating what he/she prefers without telling everybody they are wrong. In that case you should keep your criticisms to yourself as it's his business what he buy's and you shouldn't have the right to pick him apart for his decisions just because you don't agree with them, unless he's preaching to you, me and everybody else about it.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I disagree with your statement that I have highlighted, I think the 2 sentences should be the other way around, reversed. You should only criticize and judge if someone is trying to convince everybody else of their beliefs, but not if the member is merely stating what he/she prefers without telling everybody they are wrong. In that case you should keep your criticisms to yourself as it's his business what he buy's and you shouldn't have the right to pick him apart for his decisions just because you don't agree with them unless he's preaching to you, me and everybody else about it.

Very well put!

[ZoetMB]

Once again, either the 1's and 0's go in one end and come out the other end in the same sequence and on time (jitter) or they don't. And there is absolutely no scientific evidence whatsoever that expensive cables do this any better than cheap cables. A series of 1's and 0's (actually pulse waves) are either the same on both ends of the cable or they're not. It's extremely easy to prove that any HDMI cable outputs what's been input and it has been proven.

When I hear reports of, "oh with this $200 cable, my bass sounds tighter" is a great big insane joke. If the 1's and 0s are correct and on time, it can't sound any different.

If you love expensive cables because you only want truly beautifull aesthetics in your home, fine.

If you love expensive cables because you love owning things that the masses can't afford or don't know about, that's fine too.

But there is no difference in the sound or picture (in normal lengths). None. You might want to believe there's a difference. You might believe that only you with your golden ears and eyes can see/hear the difference. But there's no difference as long as the cable isn't broken. You cannot tweak a digital signal via a cable. It's not analog where signal losses, capacitance, ground loops and other factors play a role in the signal that comes out of the cable.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

What scientific research and proof is there of this? If you got any links of engineers doing research in back to back testing and there are noticeable differences in SQ and PQ I will admit my ignorance and admit you were right, plus it would be a fascinating and interesting read.

snip

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Once again, either the 1's and 0's go in one end and come out the other end in the same sequence and on time (jitter) or they don't. And there is absolutely no scientific evidence whatsoever that expensive cables do this any better than cheap cables. A series of 1's and 0's (actually pulse waves) are either the same on both ends of the cable or they're not. It's extremely easy to prove that any HDMI cable outputs what's been input and it has been proven.

When I hear reports of, "oh with this $200 cable, my bass sounds tighter" is a great big insane joke. If the 1's and 0s are correct and on time, it can't sound any different.

If you love expensive cables because you only want truly beautifull aesthetics in your home, fine.

If you love expensive cables because you love owning things that the masses can't afford or don't know about, that's fine too.

But there is no difference in the sound or picture (in normal lengths). None. You might want to believe there's a difference. You might believe that only you with your golden ears and eyes can see/hear the difference. But there's no difference as long as the cable isn't broken. You cannot tweak a digital signal via a cable. It's not analog where signal losses, capacitance, ground loops and other factors play a role in the signal that comes out of the cable.

This is not proof, however, you may wish to look at some of this discussion and much of this information is provided by 2 engineers (Amir and Don):

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...-Interconnects

Amir's comment:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...ll=1#post36114

The next several pages of the same thread particularly regarding the comments by Amir and Don (who are engineers).

You may also wish to look at this thread, though again, it is not proof, but should give you something to think about:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...i+cables+audio

By the way, Nicholas is an audio reviewer.

Rich

[Johnny Vinyl]

I've not interchanged HDMI cables to offer an opinion, but I will say that the one I had from Monoprice constantly came loose, so I threw it out. Perhaps really cheap (inexpensive) cables have lousy connectors? It would be easy to solve, if like the old printer cables and such, all HDMI cables came with locking connectors.

[PrivatePixel]

Originally Posted by John72953

I've not interchanged HDMI cables to offer an opinion, but I will say that the one I had from Monoprice constantly came loose, so I threw it out. Perhaps really cheap (inexpensive) cables have lousy connectors? It would be easy to solve, if like the old printer cables and such, all HDMI cables came with locking connectors.

I use Monoprice HDMI cables and noticed that their connectors aren't as snug (when plugged into a port) as I'd like them to be, but I wonder if that's also the case with pricier alternatives (that have identical connectors).

While we're on the subject of connectors, I came across HDMI cables with locking connectors (example below):



If anyone owns one, how secure is the connection? The manufacturer of the pictured cable claims that the connector "deliver up to 16 pounds of retention force, enough holding power to ensure that the cable stays in place". Is there validity to this claim?

I'm also curious as to how well swivel HDMI cables work.

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by John72953

I've not interchanged HDMI cables to offer an opinion, but I will say that the one I had from Monoprice constantly came loose, so I threw it out. Perhaps really cheap (inexpensive) cables have lousy connectors? It would be easy to solve, if like the old printer cables and such, all HDMI cables came with locking connectors.

I have the other way around John the most expensive HDMI that i bought ( btw at apple 12 ft for 40$ ) it was the one that gave me more problems


BTW everyone will spend what ever they like it's there money not mine . I have my own idea regarding cables and i stick to that as long it works for me

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

This is not proof, however, you may wish to look at some of this discussion and much of this information is provided by 2 engineers (Amir and Don):

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...-Interconnects

Amir's comment:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...ll=1#post36114

The next several pages of the same thread particularly regarding the comments by Amir and Don (who are engineers).

You may also wish to look at this thread, though again, it is not proof, but should give you something to think about:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...i+cables+audio

By the way, Nicholas is an audio reviewer.

Rich

Thank you for those links, I will read through them, looks interesting.

[crackinhedz]

getting waaaaay off topic fellas.

politely agree to disagree and move on. No sense wasting another keystroke to voice your opinion on anything other than the subject at hand.

Thanks!

[crackinhedz]

seeing as you guys cannot be civil...

any post made from this point out that involves senseless bickering about anything other than the topic at hand, that person will sit out for the next 2 days.

Final warning.

[Hammie]

Anyone have any experience with Pangea cables. They looked rugged and industrial but elegant and sophisticated at the same time. For the length I need, they range from $50-60 each discounted. They are over $200 each list.



I'll probably get a USB and some power cords from them, too. AC-9SE's for my amps and sub(s), and AC-14SE's for all other gear. I'll keep my Emotiva XLR's and shop around for a decent Toslink cable comparably looking to the Pangea ones.

[steve1971]

Got one heck of a deal yesterday. In Best Buys sunday flyer they are selling 6ft Monster HDMI cables for $9.99! They are normally selling for $40 as my fiance pointed out so I bought one and replaced the crappy Phillips HDMI cable that I had hooked up to my Blu ray player. I know alot of you guys think Monster is over priced and all that but I have never had a problem with their HDMI cables. Phillips on the the other hand? After the recent experience I had with their HDMI cable I will never buy another one again and yes it was the cable and nothing else that was causeing the problem and I dont even want to go into it because its a long story. All I can say is be very careful going the cheap route in buying HDMI cables because it can be a pain in the you know what. I know the Monster HDMI cable I bought was cheap but that was thanks to Best Buy. I may buy another one when the chance comes along.