HDMI Cables

[JimShaw]

I agree 100% that there isn't any difference in video quality between an expensive HDMI cable vs a good cable.

BUT is there any difference in audio when it is a good cable vs one that
has silver for wires???

Any thoughts???




m

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

I agree 100% that there isn't any difference in video quality between an expensive HDMI cable vs a good cable.

BUT is there any difference in audio when it is a good cable vs one that
has silver for wires???

Any thoughts???




m

As I've yet to see any independent and controlled studies that support any enhancement/difference, and the fact that we're still talking digital transmission, my {educated} guess would be there is no difference. All I've ever heard/read are personal perceptions, the same as with video.

What, exactly, would you think silver would do for a digital signal versus copper?

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

As I've yet to see any independent and controlled studies that support any enhancement/difference, and the fact that we're still talking digital transmission, my {educated} guess would be there is no difference. All I've ever heard/read are personal perceptions, the same as with video.

What, exactly, would you think silver would do for a digital signal versus copper?

That is exactly what I would also think, nothing. But to have AudioQuest's president tell me, silver makes the major leap in audio.

Someday, I will get AudioQuest's $1500 Diamond to test audio and then return it.

[yankeescf04]

Man.... even spending $25 seems a lot to me. I've always purchased my cables online for seriously like $2-3 bucks. I've compared them to a cable my dad bought for something like $50, and there isn't even a slight difference between the two pictures.

One of my cables, however, after 3 years, did start to malfunction, but it was easily replaced for another $2 cable. I'll never spend more than $10 on an HDMI cable.

[WilliaBe]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

As I've yet to see any independent and controlled studies that support any enhancement/difference, and the fact that we're still talking digital transmission, my {educated} guess would be there is no difference. All I've ever heard/read are personal perceptions, the same as with video.

What, exactly, would you think silver would do for a digital signal versus copper?

This is what silver does for a digital signal:

Silver has higher conductivity properties than copper. The higher conductivity of silver (Plated or solid silver) reduces the skin effect of an electrical signal within a conductor. Skin effect losses contribute to closing of the eye diagram, causing errors:

"Greater loss of high-frequency component is the skin effect, as the frequency increases, the majority of current will be concentrated in the outer conductor, which can cause excessive loss of the high-frequency signal. The skin effect from the eye diagram point of view, is the vertical distance of the eye diagram is reduced. When the vertical distance of the eye diagram is reduced to a certain extent (as high along the lower than the sampling judgment), it will produce mistaken judgments, reactions to the system is error."

[WilliaBe]

Originally Posted by jonmoz

It's just when people claim a vastly superior picture quality when using more expensive cables I tend to think one of the cables had a fault,as to be fair there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest even the slightest difference in picture quality when using better hdmi cables.

And there seems to be a lot of people stating the opposite findings when experimenting between more and less expensive cables.

I stated that the differences were notable, not vastly superior.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by WilliaBe

This is what silver does for a digital signal:

Silver has higher conductivity properties than copper. The higher conductivity of silver (Plated or solid silver) reduces the skin effect of an electrical signal within a conductor. Skin effect losses contribute to closing of the eye diagram, causing errors:

"Greater loss of high-frequency component is the skin effect, as the frequency increases, the majority of current will be concentrated in the outer conductor, which can cause excessive loss of the high-frequency signal. The skin effect from the eye diagram point of view, is the vertical distance of the eye diagram is reduced. When the vertical distance of the eye diagram is reduced to a certain extent (as high along the lower than the sampling judgment), it will produce mistaken judgments, reactions to the system is error."

I fail to see the relevance of you posting all of these theoretical formulas, equations and papers. None of them prove that silver or any other expensive cable material or design make the tiniest bit of difference in terms of audio/video quality through a digital means. When that is proven, come back with the white paper. The data either comes through as transmitted, or it doesn't. When it doesn't, it's very obvious. There is zero effect on "subtleties".

[WilliaBe]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

I fail to see the relevance of you posting all of these theoretical formulas, equations and papers. None of them prove that silver or any other expensive cable material or design make the tiniest bit of difference in terms of audio/video quality through a digital means. When that is proven, come back with the white paper. The data either comes through as transmitted, or it doesn't. When it doesn't, it's very obvious. There is zero effect on "subtleties".

I was simply responding to your question as to the difference silver makes for an HDMI cable. Silver plated or silver conductors reduce the skin effect in an HDMI cable, which in turn produce visibly better eye diagrams.

All digital equipment employs some sort of error correction/reduction system.
The digital data either comes through correctly, or it comes through incorrectly and there is an attempt to correct it.

I can see differences between two different HDMI cables in my setup. Marginal to slight video differences, more noticeable audio improvements. Another user (a few posts ago) reported similar results. Are you calling us liars?

[jonmoz]

The difference was notable with the picture quality being vastly superior using the Wireworld silver starlight HDMI cable. (Quote)


I think you need to remember what you are saying in your posts,or perhaps if you had used a more expensive keyboard your statements might have been vastly clearer and more defined.

Although there will be little scientific proof to this we will just have to trust your eyes

[shadylpete]

Originally Posted by lutefisk69

Did you try another cable? Were any settings changed? Try to set up two of the same players so you can switch it back and forth, and make sure the settings are the same. This is great... Just think you need to keep going to truly confirm this.

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

I guess it's been long enough around here that it's not surprising some AV "genius" comes back in claiming all of the usual visual improvements BS regarding HDMI cables. Obviously, this individual either failed to read through this thread to fully understand how an HDMI cable works or is simply not capable of understanding the facts.

To simplify: An HDMI cable will NOT make blacker blacks, colors brighter, the image softer/sharper, improve contrast or improve brightness. Regardless of what you THINK you saw, it's just not the case with a digital signal and has been proven time and again. If the picture is clear, with no snow, sparklies, etc., the cable is doing what it was designed to do.

So today I tried another different Dynex cable and the picture looked the same as the first one. Same settings. This isn't about what I THINK I saw. It's about what i know i saw. It looked very different. Like I said, i HAVE Monoprice cables on all of my equipment and I'll continue to support them. Chances are, those higher prices cables won't make me see any difference in my own system. But if you own a $7,000 TV, then a better cable makes a very visible difference. I know the next reply will say "Where is the proof?" I honestly don't have any. My eyes showed me the proof.

[jonmoz]

Originally Posted by shadylpete

So today I tried another different Dynex cable and the picture looked the same as the first one. Same settings. This isn't about what I THINK I saw. It's about what i know i saw. It looked very different. Like I said, i HAVE Monoprice cables on all of my equipment and I'll continue to support them. Chances are, those higher prices cables won't make me see any difference in my own system. But if you own a $7,000 TV, then a better cable makes a very visible difference. I know the next reply will say "Where is the proof?" I honestly don't have any. My eyes showed me the proof.

To be fair the proof has to come from you,and for us to just take your word and trust your eyes will never convince us.

It's like me saying unicorns exist because I saw one in my back yard,then someone saying have you any proof,and me replying "no trust me I saw the unicorn with my own eyes".

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by jonmoz

The difference was notable with the picture quality being vastly superior using the Wireworld silver starlight HDMI cable. (Quote)


I think you need to remember what you are saying in your posts,or perhaps if you had used a more expensive keyboard your statements might have been vastly clearer and more defined.

Although there will be little scientific proof to this we will just have to trust your eyes

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by WilliaBe

I can see differences between two different HDMI cables in my setup. Marginal to slight video differences, more noticeable audio improvements. Another user (a few posts ago) reported similar results. Are you calling us liars?

Originally Posted by shadylpete

I know the next reply will say "Where is the proof?" I honestly don't have any. My eyes showed me the proof.

No one is calling anyone a liar. However there have been ample studies proving there is NO difference in audio/video quality, regardless of what level of quality cable is being used. These studies have proven it time and again, so when people try to claim otherwise (because they "think" they saw a difference), there's a lot of going on.

Do we believe you "think" you saw an improvement? Of course you thought you did, as you expected to (whether you think you expected to or not).

The mind is wonderful thing, capable of so much we don't even begin to understand. Countless studies have proven that if one expects to see an improvement (in anything), one will. It's how the mind works. That's why the only way to take your mind out of the equation is to do these evaluations using a double-blind technique where neither you, nor the person swapping cables have the slightest idea what cable is being used. Of course, all other factors have to be kept constant, too. It's the only way to be truly sure that only the cable is being evaluated. These techniques were factored into many of these professional reviews (along with sensitive signal monitoring equipment), and they all conclude the same thing: as long as the HDMI cable is passing a clean signal, there are NO differences between "high quality" and bargain brands.

My use of the term "clean signal" means free of snow, sparklies, dropouts, crackling, etc. that can occur from a faulty or poorly designed cable.

[Narcissus]

This sums it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j2Duy_xzEA

Edit:
A while back i did upgrade from using a Spork to a regular Fork and noticed less food droppage,
though that might have been because i was sober.

[WilliaBe]

Obtained from an image posted in another AV site.

If "digital is digital", why are there differences?

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by WilliaBe

Obtained from an image posted in another AV site.

If "digital is digital", why are there differences?

Random images "posted on other AV sites" support nothing and can be created by anyone with an agenda. Once independent, professional testing and reviews support an audible/visual difference, then we will should notice.

[WilliaBe]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Random images "posted on other AV sites" support nothing and can be created by anyone with an agenda. Once independent, professional testing and reviews support an audible/visual difference, then we will should notice.

Ricshoe -

What HDMI cable are you using now? Have you tried different brands in your rig?

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by WilliaBe

Ricshoe -

What HDMI cable are you using now? Have you tried different brands in your rig?

Over the years I've used Monoprice, Blue Jeans Cable, generic cables packaged with various equipment, RCA and Rocketfish brands ("rented" to use until my mail-order cables arrived) and I'm currently using Blur-Rigger cables I got off Amazon. I really like the Blue Riggers for the looks and build quality. For the price shipped, they're cheaper than Monoprice. I've never seen a difference in any of them, though I have had a couple Monoprice cables go bad on me (sparklies in the picture).

If you're asking if I've personally bought expensive cables to evaluate myself, the answer is no. I've read enough professional reviews and evaluations to know it's not worth my trouble. I also don't need to touch the surface of my range when the little red light is on to confirm it's hot.

[Almadacr]

Well maybe this guys are right ... i just bought this cable for $12-12Ft and it's terrible . Why ? I will explain , it looks good , the image look's terrible it is also 1.3 and it passed 3D .

So my advise is don't buy this $12 HDMI cable because it's crap , your I/Q , A/Q it's the same also it looks good ( things that i don't like since my main objective is to hide cables not to buy them to be seen wile i am watching a movie ) and it's only $12 .

So seriously buy a 1ft at $100 cable to be hidden behind your tv that will change everything to the best

Here's some pictures to show how bad this cable looks .

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

also 1.3 and it passed 3D

any High Speed cable will [should] pass a 3D signal.

3D as it pertains to Bluray is regulated by the HDMI transmit/receive microchip used in the device...has nothing to do with the HDMI cable.