4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

For those interested in quality over convenience, UHD BR competition will be more from downloading than streaming and of course the continuation of early digital release.

What is troublesome in that Panasonic interview is the slippage in release of hardware due to an expected lack of content and studio indifference.

In that news release from Sony posted earlier, there really wasn't that much emphasis on physical disk. I wonder if FMP-X10 owners have an HDR update for streaming in their future? It will be interesting to see if Sony adds a premium to UHD HDR. M-GO VIDITY UHD downloads are around $20 and UHD HDR are $30.

Streaming, downloading, whatever, it all comes under the same umbrella to me: 'digital' UHD releases are stealing UHD BD's thunder and the more they procrastinate the more the format is up against it. This cluster**** with UHD standards hasn't helped, I get the feeling that there aren't nearly enough displays out there that can actually use all the things that's supposed to set UHD BD picture quality apart from regular HD, so if they were to launch now then the current installed user base may be less than impressed. BUT if they wait too long for the properly ratified 4K standards to be put in place and for HDR sets to make some headway into the market then it may be too late to compete with 'digital' UHD, best quality be damned.

It's such a mess.

[kempit22112211]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Streaming, downloading, whatever, it all comes under the same umbrella to me: 'digital' UHD releases are stealing UHD BD's thunder and the more they procrastinate the more the format is up against it. This cluster**** with UHD standards hasn't helped, I get the feeling that there aren't nearly enough displays out there that can actually use all the things that's supposed to set UHD BD picture quality apart from regular HD, so if they were to launch now then the current installed user base may be less than impressed. BUT if they wait too long for the properly ratified 4K standards to be put in place and for HDR sets to make some headway into the market then it may be too late to compete with 'digital' UHD, best quality be damned.

It's such a mess.

By design its a mess to put the nail in the coffin of discs, stupid Millennials (and other older idiots) will see that and will give up discs and so on

[Geoff D]

That's a bit tin-foil-hat for my liking but there's a kernel of truth there: the studios can't wait until the day comes they can stop making these stoopid discs and just pipe everything thru the internets.

[harpolini]

I'm starting to feel in the minority of those excited for 4K. Maybe an exaggeration, but alot of people are treating this like its dead in the water.

Imagine if the first two releases were True Lies and The Abyss. Everyone would be all over 4K.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by harpolini

I'm starting to feel in the minority of those excited for 4K. Maybe an exaggeration, but alot of people are treating this like its dead in the water.

Imagine if the first two releases were True Lies and The Abyss. Everyone would be all over 4K.

I'm definitely excited, but the real question is will my bank balance be able to handle a new TV, Player and Sound System? The answer is probably not

So I may well be waiting until Christmas 2016 before jumping on board. Although I will be buying any films that come out in the new format as long as they have BDs included too.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I wonder if FMP-X10 owners have an HDR update for streaming in their future?

Not likely, we were supposed to get an Amazon app by the end of spring but has not happened yet. Can not remember if the UltraFlix app was a rumor or announced but it is MIA as well.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Absolutely spot on, Dexy. 4K displays are here to stay. 4K Blu-ray...not so much.

sap: you'd be surprised at how seamless 4K scaling actually is, especially with 1080p to 2160p because it's directly proportional, it'd be harder to **** it up than to get it right! 1080p looks astonishing on my 4K set, not so much because the upscaling itself is adding any special sauce but because A) I've set it up properly and B) the increased pixel density means I can sit much closer than I could with an equivalent 1080p set, it's incredibly immersive.

Yeah i'm sure on some tv's it looks fine but if i have a choice i would rather not do it. I don't need the tv or player adding anything to the picture. Sitting closer is not a benefit to me.

Originally Posted by bruceames.

See post above yours. The increased pixel density allows you to sit closer and for me, sitting closer without looking at a grid = looking better. You can get that immersive experience that normally you could only get with a projector. It's not only not seeing pixels, but the picture looks smoother as well with more uniform lighting. So yeah, ALL my stuff looks better on a 4K TV.

Since I bought my TV, I've been sitting about 2 feet closer (about 78" away) than I used to and the new TV is 65" vs. 58" for the old plasma.

I don't know what kind of tv you guys have, but when i stand 2 feet from mine i don't see any grid. Maybe if i look hard enough. The picture is as natural as from my 8 feet seating distance. I always thought the pixel grid talk is little too much.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

I'm definitely excited, but the real question is will my bank balance be able to handle a new TV, Player and Sound System? The answer is probably not

So I may well be waiting until Christmas 2016 before jumping on board. Although I will be buying any films that come out in the new format as long as they have BDs included too.

I will be buying the films as well, it's great that they have a Blu-ray included but once I obtain a ultra hd Blu-ray player it would be great to pick up a copy of whatever without all the guff for less. They used to release full screen and widescreen editions so I can't see what harm a Ultra HD Blu-ray + Blu-ray + DVD + Digital HD + Digital Bridge combo pack and a standard Ultra HD Blu-ray + Digital Bridge pack would do.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by harpolini

I'm starting to feel in the minority of those excited for 4K. Maybe an exaggeration, but alot of people are treating this like its dead in the water.

Imagine if the first two releases were True Lies and The Abyss. Everyone would be all over 4K.

4KBD has potential. I'll be buying into it eventually. I'm just not excited as i was with bluray. You have to understand that change was massive. Literally everything changed; TV's--going from 4:3 tubes to 16:9 flat was an upgrade itself-- broadcasting signal, and many other things. 480p to 1080p was more of a differentiator than 4K is imo. Maybe most just feel content. When 1080p sets are still producing stunning PQ

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post24711392

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post24773291

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post24600504

How could you not be.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by harpolini

I'm starting to feel in the minority of those excited for 4K. Maybe an exaggeration, but alot of people are treating this like its dead in the water.

Imagine if the first two releases were True Lies and The Abyss. Everyone would be all over 4K.

Even if they were, I am pretty sure this format *is* dead in the water - which is why people are treating it this way. It is going to be impossible to compete with 4K streaming with an expensive disc, even if the quality is better. IMO the studios should just focus on standard BD instead of splitting the marketplace with UHDBD. I honestly wish they would cancel the launch, because there is really no hope and all it can do is harm standard BD.

I am also finding it hard to be excited with the online DRM in the spec + likely dead format = potential of expensive coasters down the road. Even if there is no online DRM, I'd be completely shocked if UHDBD even reaches HD DVD's or 3DBD's popularity. Meaning finding a player may eventually be a struggle.

Finally, on top of all of that, 4K has diminishing returns compared to 2K on the vast majority of 35mm films and on the screen sizes that will be in most people's home theaters.

Put all that together and yeah, its not really exciting for me.

[bailey1987]

I just hope CEDIA brings more hope for a Christmas 2015 release. I'm at a loss for what to do this Christmas now. Looking at other presents I could buy myself I can only think of the Nvidia 3D vision kit for the new PC I bought for my birthday. Either that or I will just go on a tinsel and turkey holiday. I'm furious either way.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I just hope CEDIA brings more hope for a Christmas 2015 release. I'm at a loss for what to do this Christmas now. Looking at other presents I could buy myself I can only think of the Nvidia 3D vision kit for the new PC I bought for my birthday. Either that or I will just go on a tinsel and turkey holiday. I'm furious either way.

It still looks like First Quarter 2016 will be the start of the UHD Blu-ray push. If there isn't a big presence at CES in Vegas in January, then start getting worried.

[Geoff D]

↑ That.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

↑ That.

The new Sony push of Bad Boys, Dracula and the like show that if they are not there the format is in trouble.
Their 4k final solution they have been pushing over the last few years has left them with more content than anyone.

[bailey1987]

I have just found this: http://www.lightreading.com/video/4k.../d/d-id/718150

"The target for completion is early next year," says Viktor Matsuda, a spokesperson for the UHD Alliance and vice president of Sony Corp. (NYSE: SNE)'s visual entertainment project group.

That's that then.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I just hope CEDIA brings more hope for a Christmas 2015 release. I'm at a loss for what to do this Christmas now.

Personally, even they did have something in the stores by this Christmas, I wouldn't buy it or recommend buying it.

There simply is not enough time left in this year for this technology to be tested before it reaches the consumer. As I've said before...it's one thing to be an early adopter but another thing to be a beta tester.

We still know virtually nothing about the production, rejection rates and general reliability of the discs. Since the discs represent the main, long term cost, it's the discs I'm most concerned about. I NEED to know that production standard discs have undergone extensive testing to reasonably assure good life-span and reliable playability for the consumers. Right now, I haven't got a clue where we stand in that regard.

So, even if these discs hit the market in November, I'm not going to be the first guy on the block to buy new discs from new production machinery that has been online for two weeks. Show me four months of test results...then I'll think about it.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I have just found this: http://www.lightreading.com/video/4k.../d/d-id/718150

"The target for completion is early next year," says Viktor Matsuda, a spokesperson for the UHD Alliance and vice president of Sony Corp. (NYSE: SNE)'s visual entertainment project group.

That's that then.

It is encouraging to see the increase in UHD Alliance membership. Clearly the U.S. is going to continue to trail Europe in UHD broadcast adoption.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

The new Sony push of Bad Boys, Dracula and the like show that if they are not there the format is in trouble.
Their 4k final solution they have been pushing over the last few years has left them with more content than anyone.

As I keep saying, that's what so messed up about their continued silence on UHD BD. Biggest 4K catalogue by far, smallest interest in the physical 4K format.

Still, I had to laugh when they announced their link up with Dolby to add Dolby Vision to their UHD catalogue (ah, so THAT'S why they've embraced Atmos for those new BD remasters!) because that's typical Sony, doing their own thing and thumbing their nose at the mandatory HDR standard. And while the linked article above keeps mentioning UHD BD, Sony only mentioned "distribution to customer's homes" in their own wording. Hmmmm.

It wouldn't surprise me if the wrangling that was mentioned by Panasonic comes down to HDR implementation, everyone wants to do it their own way which is only going to fragment the UHD disc market even more; "My HDR's better than your HDR" etc etc. Oh joy. By the time the industry gets its shit together it'll simply be too late.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As I keep saying, that's what so messed up about their continued silence on UHD BD. Biggest 4K catalogue by far, smallest interest in the physical 4K format.

Still, I had to laugh when they announced their link up with Dolby to add Dolby Vision to their UHD catalogue (ah, so THAT'S why they've embraced Atmos for those new BD remasters!) because that's typical Sony, doing their own thing and thumbing their nose at the mandatory HDR standard. And while the linked article above keeps mentioning UHD BD, Sony only mentioned "distribution to customer's homes" in their own wording. Hmmmm.

It wouldn't surprise me if the wrangling that was mentioned by Panasonic comes down to HDR implementation, everyone wants to do it their own way which is only going to fragment the UHD disc market even more; "My HDR's better than your HDR" etc etc. Oh joy.

I thought there was more than one standard in the specs?
No HDR is better, it all stinks of emperors new clothes and a reason to buy over the lack of actual 4k on the Fox titles.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As I keep saying, that's what so messed up about their continued silence on UHD BD. Biggest 4K catalogue by far, smallest interest in the physical 4K format.

Still, I had to laugh when they announced their link up with Dolby to add Dolby Vision to their UHD catalogue (ah, so THAT'S why they've embraced Atmos for those new BD remasters!) because that's typical Sony, doing their own thing and thumbing their nose at the mandatory HDR standard. And while the linked article above keeps mentioning UHD BD, Sony only mentioned "distribution to customer's homes" in their own wording. Hmmmm.

It wouldn't surprise me if the wrangling that was mentioned by Panasonic comes down to HDR implementation, everyone wants to do it their own way which is only going to fragment the UHD disc market even more; "My HDR's better than your HDR" etc etc. Oh joy. By the time the industry gets its shit together it'll simply be too late.

Of the three BDA approved HDR standards, it seems that Dolby Vision is the best and most extensive, so... why not use the best?

Also, they supposedly need 100 GB discs for dual layered Dolby Vision to have enough data headroom. It can do up to 12 bit depth rather than 10 with extension data, so the color is improved over standard UHD Blu-ray video not just the dynamic range (perhaps the two aren't joined at the hip, so for some movies that are not right for HDR, they can still get a bump to 12 bit).

If DTS: X is late to the game or ends up being a no show due to various issues they're currently having getting their codec implemented without glitches, I'm okay with that, since Dolby Atmos is pretty f--kin' cool (and like current lossless codecs, is pretty much the same damn thing anyway)... and I doubt titles with Dolby Vision would be caught dead with DTS: X for audio.