4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Vashetti]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's only the inner 8% of each 33GB layer that has to spin slower and thus uses slightly less bitrate, the other 92% can use the max 127.9 Mb/s for the transport stream.

As you say Freaky, the encodes will need to take this into account but seeing as none of the movies released so far seem to have anything close to that sort of max bitrate I don't think folks needs to worry about that 8% at the head of each layer.

Yes, this is only the start of the format and things will only get biggerer and betterer from here on out, I fully appreciate that, but still: they wouldn't have put this in the spec if it was going to be a problem later on down the line, and I'm glad they decided to include the two-zone system instead of curbing the TS bitrate at single-zoned 109 Mb/s (which would've made life easier for the encoders for sure).

[edit] Speaking of which, they decided on the two-zone implementation partly to avoid excessive drive noise from the faster read speeds being utilised for UHD Blu (i.e. it would get too fast and thus too noisy if the entire layer was read at the max 127.9 Mb/s rate, same reason why current BDs sometimes start off screeching like banshees (depending on player ) but quieten down as the laser moves from inner to outer), but I don't recall seeing much discussion about any noise that the Samsung makes. Which is a good thing, I guess!

Plinkett fan?

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's only the inner 8% of each 33GB layer that has to spin slower and thus uses slightly less bitrate, the other 92% can use the max 127.9 Mb/s for the transport stream.

As you say Freaky, the encodes will need to take this into account but seeing as none of the movies released so far seem to have anything close to that sort of max bitrate I don't think folks needs to worry about that 8% at the head of each layer.

Yes, this is only the start of the format and things will only get biggerer and betterer from here on out, I fully appreciate that, but still: they wouldn't have put this in the spec if it was going to be a problem later on down the line, and I'm glad they decided to include the two-zone system instead of curbing the TS bitrate at single-zoned 109 Mb/s (which would've made life easier for the encoders for sure).

[edit] Speaking of which, they decided on the two-zone implementation partly to avoid excessive drive noise from the faster read speeds being utilised for UHD Blu (i.e. it would get too fast and thus too noisy if the entire layer was read at the max 127.9 Mb/s rate, same reason why current BDs sometimes start off screeching like banshees (depending on player ) but quieten down as the laser moves from inner to outer), but I don't recall seeing much discussion about any noise that the Samsung makes. Which is a good thing, I guess!

Bitrates over 100 mbit/s will never be used with the new HEVC codec. They are in the specs for the "old" AVC codec that can be still be used...

HEVC will maybe reach 50/60 mbit average not more...

[Elaniel]

I have decided I'm going to wait a little while until players come out with Dolby Vision and the other things that UHD seem to have planned.

I'm having to eventually buy a new 4K TV as mine does support HDR, but not the full range. I don't want to spend £400 on a player I'll end up replacing in a year too.

It pains me to do so (as I'd love to have it now), but I want to start being a little more conservative with my money.

I'll future-proof my collection and buy the discs as they come out so I have a library ready to go (and no need to double dip), but I'm trying to be sensible.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Vashetti

Plinkett fan?

Can't says I am, I hate their prequel "reviews"

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Bitrates over 100 mbit/s will never be used with the new HEVC codec. They are in the specs for the "old" AVC codec that can be still be used...

HEVC will maybe reach 50/60 mbit average not more...

There we go, the worries about that 8% won't impact on real world content.

[strumdogg]

I'm with Cinema Sickness...

Daily Sickness (03/02/16) - YouTube

[primus_slo]

"All 4K UHD Blu-rays are region free"
Is this really true?

[kristoffer]

This HDR business seems like a huge mess at the present. How do you calibrate your 4K HDR TV for Exanpen colours and HDR? Can you use P3 as a base?! [emoji15] Maybe I should just wait for HDMI 2.1 with metadata.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

This HDR business seems like a huge mess at the present. How do you calibrate your 4K HDR TV for Exanpen colours and HDR? Can you use P3 as a base?! [emoji15] Maybe I should just wait for HDMI 2.1 with metadata.

HDMI 2.0a supposedly had metadata included, but apparently it's not enough.

Now, the question is whether HDMI 2.0a hardware can be updated to HDMI 2.1 that supposedly further "enhances" device handshaking.

HDMI SUCKS!!!!

[Geoff D]

2.0a includes provision for static metadata. It's the transmission of dynamic metadata (allowing for much more nuanced remapping of colour volume & dynamic range) which is dependent on the completion of both SMPTE 2094 and a revised HDMI standard.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

HDMI 2.0a supposedly had metadata included, but apparently it's not enough.

Now, the question is whether HDMI 2.0a hardware can be updated to HDMI 2.1 that supposedly further "enhances" device handshaking.

HDMI SUCKS!!!!

I agree, what makes matters worse is the HDMI forum phased out the numbering system years ago, technically we are not supposed to be calling it 2.0 anything, it's HDMI High Speed either with or without Ethernet. I have been reluctant to buy them regardless of how cheap they are ever since.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I agree, what makes matters worse is the HDMI forum phased out the numbering system years ago, technically we are not supposed to be calling it 2.0 anything, it's HDMI High Speed either with or without Ethernet. I have been reluctant to buy them regardless of how cheap they are ever since.

They phased out the cable designations.


Port designations are very much in use.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They phased out the cable designations.


Port designations are very much in use.

But a UHD Blu-ray HDMI chip/port is nothing like a HDMI 1.4 chip...using the same descriptors is confusing when you try to understand new features. HDMI 2.X for UHD blu-ray players requires the HDCP to take place in the same TEE that handles AACS..everything from decrypting the Bus transport from drive to SoC then AACS, Player then encrypting for HDCP in the same SoC. HDCP is the last step before the stream is sent to the handshaking/programmable clock port (what used to be the HDMI chip) which means the Metadata has to be added/processed in the TEE before HDCP.

The HDMI designations including Metadata for HDR and more are just an easy way for the end user to distinguish between features supported by the Player which is just firmware provided the TEE hardware is powerful enough to implement them.

If the UHD Blu-ray player is going to support a Digital bridge or conversion from UHD to HD or the reverse, this also has to take place in the same SoC TEE. Miracast, Vidipath and a Downloadable security key to replace the cable card the same. DRM for UHD TV (ATSC 3) the same; UHD TV supports premium channels with DRM (HBO, Showtime etc) and Non-Realtime-Transmission. UHD Blu-ray uses the same software stack that will be used for 4K UHD TV (ATSC 3). Browser based VR is essentially UHD 3D using the same IPTV HEVC multi-view plus depth map. Point is the TEE in upper end UHD Players will be more powerful than we would expect if we didn't know what's coming.

[Pieter V]

Home Theater Geeks 295: Sony on UHD - YouTube

[kristoffer]

Do any of the current discs contain Dolby Vision HDR?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Do any of the current discs contain Dolby Vision HDR?

Not yet.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Do any of the current discs contain Dolby Vision HDR?

Authoring tools aren't ready for UHD Blu. Once those are done you'll start to see titles with DV.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Authoring tools aren't ready for UHD Blu. Once those are done you'll start to see titles with DV.

Will DV be a big difference over HDR10 visually? When do you think they'll start coming out with DV titles? I don't want to buy 50-100 movies and then see them all reissued a few years later with a DV layer and they look so much better. Also I wonder how much a slam dunk we'll even see DV on the format, since none of Sony and Samsung's 2016 TVs will have it.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Authoring tools aren't ready for UHD Blu. Once those are done you'll start to see titles with DV.

Not from all studios tho

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Not from all studios tho

Yes, it sounds like Sony has no plans for DV support. Yet.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Will DV be a big difference over HDR10 visually? When do you think they'll start coming out with DV titles? I don't want to buy 50-100 movies and then see them all reissued a few years later with a DV layer and they look so much better. Also I wonder how much a slam dunk we'll even see DV on the format, since none of Sony and Samsung's 2016 TVs will have it.

Hard to say. DV for UHD Blu supports 12 bit, and based on the perceptual models there is zero chance for banding if authored correctly, whereas 10 bit HDR10 still has a pretty good chance for banding in parts of the image (though reduced from typical Blu-ray). DV is also based on a completely different system for HDR that uses dynamic metadata that could be used by the display. This results in a much more robust system for not only calibration but operation of zone based dynamic contrast systems.

It is unclear right now how many studios will switch over to DV once the tols are in place for authoring on UHD Blu-ray. But Warner, Sony, Universal and MGM have all stated that they plan on using it with their home releases, so I think they are all safe bets. Fox has support Dolby with their cinema releases so there is a chance there too. Vudu uses it now for their UHD streaming and Netflix will be adding it as their HDR solution as well. I'm sure over the next year or so you'll be seeing more support for it from hardware.