The Abyss 4K UHD (1989)

[Samu_]

A few more must have trickled in to amazon as mine has just shipped, but it’s out of stock again.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Azurfel

Nvidia's DLSS was trained by refining it's results using comparison to native 16K super sampled equivalent frames with the goal of making the final result look as close to that native 16K super sampled image downsampled to the target output resolution as possible.

The Park Road Post process is, by all appearances, a LLM based successor to the Lowry process, trained to dumbly extract and combine what it registers as detail from adjacent frames while eliminating (or at least minimizing) undesired noise included in the source material (including grain).

They are doing fundamentally different things using superficially similar methodology, and there is no reason whatsoever to presume that the Park Road process will get better at making a 2K (or lesser) scan look like a 4K scan, because as far as we know that isn't remotely what it is trying to do in the first place.

Nvidia Shows Project GROOT and Disney Bots. James Cameron The Terminator warned us about AI in 1984 - YouTube

SUPERCHARGED COMPUTING FOR THE DA VINCIS AND EINSTEINS OF OUR TIME

[peppapigstan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But that's just it, isn't it? 2D animation is, let's be honest, not the most detailed medium around so there's not a lot there for the AI to f*ck up. It can latch on to the clean, contrasty line art and go from there and in that respect it's not so different from regular sharpening, it's all about enhancing contrasting edges, it can just do so without causing all the shitty artefacts that old-school sharpening creates (it just creates a load of weird new artefacts instead, lol). Same with video games to be honest, matey keeps bibbling on about them too but there's a certain geometric certainty to graphics that makes it easier for the AI to process, as well as an inherent 'uncanny valley' to the graphics so the AI isn't making it look any weirder.

Bombshell of the week: video games ain't live action, animation ain't live action. There's a certain mathematical unknown about real peoples which AI is desperately poor at recreating for full motion video in 4K rez. Yes it'll get betterer blah blah blah, but again: it was never needed for ANY of these Camerons in the first place, and never will be needed for anything with a cut negative.

Titanic and exspecially The Abuse look so good because there's so much information there in those 4K masters to begin with, the AI is just providing a finishing touch and they'd have looked 99% as good without the AI (or rather betterer still, as the film grain would be intact) so aren't poster children for how amazing the process is, they're merely proof of how superfluous it is. Aliens and True Lies are starting with much more challenging sources, be they 2K, or swarming with coarse grain, or shot softly/more out of focus than not, and the AI is struggling badly with all of those facets. Not ready for prime time.

Agreed here, that said we have seen worse upscales even without AI in animation but yeah, using AI for live-action is cringe and I can't believe there's people defending this

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Azurfel

Nvidia's DLSS was trained by refining it's results using comparison to native 16K super sampled equivalent frames with the goal of making the final result look as close to that native 16K super sampled image downsampled to the target output resolution as possible.

The Park Road Post process is, by all appearances, a LLM based successor to the Lowry process, trained to dumbly extract and combine what it registers as detail from adjacent frames while eliminating (or at least minimizing) undesired noise included in the source material (including grain).

They are doing fundamentally different things using superficially similar methodology, and there is no reason whatsoever to presume that the Park Road process will get better at making a 2K (or lesser) scan look like a 4K scan, because as far as we know that isn't remotely what it is trying to do in the first place.

Similar deal with Pixar's AI upscaler, they trained it with native 4K renders of their work. The way to do it with film would be to take 4K or 8K scans of OCN material, and there are lots of historic stocks out there, and use that to train it so it at least knows what film of whatever vintage is supposed to look like under whatever conditions. This Park Road thing isn't that, it's as you say, a basic Lowry-esque detail enhancer that's taken the process backwards (and I've mentioned the Lowry connection before, that Cameron has simply moved on from using their process to this new one, as Fincher might well have done). The ironical part is that the very thing needed to train the AI properly is what should've been done in the first place for at least Aliens: a fat new scan of the OG negative.

[Nightman04]

I’m sorry if this has already been discussed, but did anyone else notice a skipped frame at 01:24:29?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Will post my review of True Lies next week and will then just leave folk to it.

Yes yes; I'm still stuck with my old non-anamorphic DVD from the Stone age. I need to know if this 4K is worth the upgrade. I'm on a strict budget; only the best would do.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Cameron has simply moved on from using their process to this new one, as Fincher might well have done

What's the source of all that fuss about Fincher and AI?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Nightman04

I’m sorry if this has already been discussed, but did anyone else notice a skipped frame at 01:24:29?

There are a few in the film, it's where the OG negative and the SE negative meet, as when film is physically edited together you have to destroy a frame either side of every cut, so when putting together an extended version you're literally missing frames if you're adding on to an existing scene using trims.

Digital tech can recreate the missing frames very easily, it was done seamlessly for the 2003 HD transfer of T2, and interpositives struck before the scene was edited could also be used in a pinch, but on Aliens and The Abuse the frame skips are more apparent, even with all the magical AI bollox that's out there.

[soaptrail]

I presume Disney is going to be making more discs, i see this is sold out and the scalpers on eBay want $50 or more for a copy. I have not picked this up yet but will assuming it comes back in stock.

[Law212]

My walmart stocked up on aliens , so i assume they will get more abyss at some point. Or not. Also best buy had Aliens.

Many walmarts near me stopped selling 4K apparently because people steal them any time they are put out.

[rubystone356]

Comparing James Cameron's The Abyss Theatrical and Special Edition #jamescameron #theabyss - YouTube

some bloopers from the abyss.

Jacob

[Vincanws]

Originally Posted by Vincanws

The cheapest I can find to buy this US copy new for my collection in UK is £47.99 right now without trying my luck with bidding … Before I take the plunge does anyone know of somewhere like wowhd had that has some stock going for cheaper?

Well regardless of price that was quick, next day delivery.

[yellowcakeuf6]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

We live in an age where machine learning can generate any video scenario you can imagine from a text prompt, I don’t think anyone can conclude that the case is closed.
It’s just a discussion, no one is getting hurt here.

And I have no idea what gaslighting is, but it sounds like one of those dreadful social media phrases that the kids say, so I won’t research it.

Of the four releases, Titanic and The Abyss are rather good to be fair, so that’s also open to opinion. I get True Lies on Tuesday so I will weigh in with opinions on that one when I see it.

Actually, it was a movie, an old one. Kind of appropriate here.

[VMeran]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Got my US copy today and...the UHD disc has a whole bunch of scuffs and scratches, most near the outer rim where the layer changes can get so easily corrupted. Aliens got away with a tiny scratch, True Lies was fine, and most importantly both played perfickly, but I'm not looking forward to spinning The Abuse. How typical is it that the most eagerly awaited of the three AND the least terrible-looking of the three is the one that gets the shit end of the stick?

What I don't get with these stackers is why they always always fookin ALWAYS put the UHD on top of another disc. You've got two hubs so keep one for the UHD on its own and put the two BDs together. Naturally, the other two discs are fine, the fookin BD25 they've used for the extras is particularly pristine. Just...ugh.

Admittedly it may play a-okay, but given all the issues people have been having I don't rate my chances. Good job I ordered the Italian edition a while back, it's not out until April but at least it won't look like someone's dropped it on the floor. If the US one won't play proper like I'll send it back to Amazon.

Mine arrived with some weird shit on it that I wasn't able to remove even after washing the disc with dish soap, and on top of that, it also had two little scratches IIRC. Thankfully, the Special Edition played without any issues, so it's possible your disc may be fine as well.

Originally Posted by timfitz99

Yeah, I watched the hell out of that Laserdisc

I assume they plan to restock. Some discs seem to have issues. Mine did.

I'm curious regarding those who don't have issues, anyone have a clean playthrough of the SE on the Panasonic 820? Trying to determine if it's a disc or player issue.

See above.

[VMeran]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Sony and Disney are the absolute WORST with doing this. Always stacking discs and putting the UHD ontop of another blu-ray and then the extras disc gets its own hub?? Make it make sense. What I did in the case of The Abyss is just put the BD of the film into a disc binder I have stored in one of the drawers of my TV stand. I won't be watching the BD anyway and now the 4K and the extras disc each get their own hub. Plan on doing the exact same thing when Aliens arrives. If they were gonna go the stacker route I would've almost preferred them to have just released these as UHD-only and then an extras disc. Won't be watching the BDs on any of these anyway, which is why it didn't really bother me that Paramount made Titanic a UHD-only release with just a BD of extras.

My UHD of The Abyss also had some circular scratches on the 4K but it played fine. And like yours, the 2 included BDs were absolutely pristine lol. Gotta love it.

And while I think Kino and Shout have gotten better as of late, Sony and Disney are now probably the worst offenders in my experience. I actually cannot believe that my Columbia Classics Vol. 4 set arrived with only 1 tiny nick on one of the discs (tested and it's fine). My Vol. 3 I had to exchange twice and even then had to piece together a set in order to get a collection where (most of) the discs were unscathed.

I share your frustration, my friend.

Half the time for Disney discs, I expect them to arrive with scratches, especially when they're stacked. Thankfully, I haven't had one fail on me yet, but I chalk that up more to luck than anything else.

On the other hand, I've had other discs that looked pristine and still crapped out on me at some point during playback, and returning discs in general (although Amazon makes it easy) is always a hassle. Recently, I had to piece together a GOT set until I had one where all discs played fine, and the same thing happened with The Mandalorian S2, which had a batch with a faulty disc 1.

All of this together has made this expensive hobby more frustrating than it needs to be.

As for The Abyss and Aliens, I just swapped the cases with two three-disc cases I had lying around.

[kishiro]

Originally Posted by yellowcakeuf6

Actually, it was a movie, an old one. Kind of appropriate here.

In fact there was two (not counting tv-versions). The first released in 1940 starring Anton Walbrook and Diana Wynyard, the re-make (and the most famous one) came in 1944 and starred Charles Boyer and the exquisite Ingrid Bergman.

I higly reccomend both. I love Ingrid Bergman. However I do think the 1940 version is criminally underrated.

Gaslight (1944) Official Trailer - Charles Boyer, Ingrid Bergman Movie HD - YouTube

Gaslight (1940) - Teaser - YouTube

[Darth Marcus]

Back in stock at OrbitDVD. True Lies and Aliens are also back in stock.

[Vincanws]

Originally Posted by Vincanws

Well regardless of price that was quick, next day delivery.

Update on this copy I got today. I watched the special edition 4k through and, sure enough, it freezes for a couple of spots for me, and you get that nasty pixellation. Same thing on my Panny and PS5, and the disc is spotless.

It’s just two parts at around 48 and 53 mins in on mine so not end of the world but I lose 30-sec chunks and have to screw around with the player to get past the bad spots… and it obvs compromises the flow. About a minute unwatchable in total... Disappointing quality but I won’t exchange it as seems the chances are good another copy will be borked.

For an otherwise stellar presentation (to my eyes & ears at least), this encoding thing affecting lots of others was a disappointing screw up. They need to do better than this.

[paulboland]

Originally Posted by Vincanws

Update on this copy I got today. I watched the special edition 4k through and, sure enough, it freezes for a couple of spots for me, and you get that nasty pixellation. Same thing on my Panny and PS5, and the disc is spotless. Just two parts around 48 and 53 mins in on mine so not end of the world but I lose 30-sec chunks and have to screw around with the player to get past the bad spots… and it obvs compromises the flow. About a minute unwatchable in total... Disappointing quality but I won’t exchange it as seems the chances are good another copy will be borked.

For an otherwise stellar presentation (to my eyes & ears at least), this encoding thing affecting lots of others was a disappointing screw up. They need to do better than this.

UHD discs
Don’t just go by a visual inspection to see if clean.

New UHD discs have a residue that can’t be seen with a visual inspection.


Clean all of the disc with a dry fiber cloth from center to edge you might need to repeat this a few times and also clean inside the amaray case as the residue can transfer to hub area of case.

The residue can cause various issues in some UHD players it affects some players more than others while some players play discs without issues.

Some of the issues residue causes is video freezing or audio dropouts during playback or menu loading issues

Since I first noticed this over a year ago I now give all new uhd discs I purchase a full clean before using.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Really sick of waiting for this and Aliens from Amazon, I pre-ordered on February 29th and I have a delivery estimate of 'Thursday, April 4, 2024 - Friday, April 12, 2024 by 10pm'.