The Abyss 4K UHD (1989)

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by chewbabka

People are so bad at asking questions. A meandering question about blowback, standards, and the “fan community”—the last being the part that allowed Cameron to latch onto the basement line of attack. Instead, ask a direct question about AI processing and the integrity of film for gadsake.

Reminds me of the guy who confused Katie Kennedy by asking a meandering question about Star Wars “always changing” instead of asking a direct question about the original cuts.

Whether Cameron politely or rudely says no, the answer will still be no. Not that this gives any of his fans to be an ******* (something of which I myself have been guilty over the years).

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by KcMsterpce

Yeah, we already saw this in the other threads you shared it in.
So what?
I don't care. Jesus.

I shared it in one thread (this one) and discussed it after someone else shared it in two other ones (True Lies and The Abyss).

If you'd like I have a spare calculator you can borrow.

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

Well, obviously some people do. That said, Cameron doesn’t owe me the time of day, but that was still a low blow on his part.

Originally Posted by chewbabka

People are so bad at asking questions. A meandering question about blowback, standards, and the “fan community”—the last being the part that allowed Cameron to latch onto the basement line of attack. Instead, ask a direct question about AI processing and the integrity of film for gadsake.

Reminds me of the guy who confused Katie Kennedy by asking a meandering question about Star Wars “always changing” instead of asking a direct question about the original cuts.

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

Whether Cameron politely or rudely says no, the answer will still be no. Not that this gives any of his fans to be an ******* (something of which I myself have been guilty over the years).

It was a low blow, and honestly I expected more from him. A blunt "no" is bad but "f*ckity no" is worse. He didn't have to be so obnoxious about it. He clearly knows people are mad. He also likely knows they're mad at the revisionism. I think his response wasn't even "I know what they should look like and you don't" and was instead "how dare you question me". It reeks of arrogance.

While the question of Star Wars needs to be asked to people who give a damn (celebs with pull, people at Disney who aren't out to lunch, etc), I'll give George Lucas the win by saying at least he responded to his critics with some eloquence:

Originally Posted by George Lucas

The special edition, that’s the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it’s on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I’m not going to spend the, we’re talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn’t really exist anymore. It’s like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I’m sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I’m the one who has to take responsibility for it. I’m the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they’re going to throw rocks at me, they’re going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished

No F-bombs or talk of mom's basement to be had there.

[d34073505]

Originally Posted by wright96d

https://slow.pics/c/wVhy4YKP

Please forgive me for my spreading of lies and misinformation. I finally had the idea to run a stereo downmix of the 5.1 on the Blu-ray and compare it to the 2.0 on the 4K, and it would appear that the 2.0 on the 4K is in fact a downmix of the 5.1 on the BD. However - H O W E V E R - the 5.1 on the Blu-ray is actually 4.1, with duplicated mono surrounds, as I pointed out further up thread, so as long as they encoded it as Dolby Surround, it should be a fair approximation of the original mix. (minus the noise reduction and EQ and brickwall limiting and yadayadayada) Unfortunately I have no idea how to tell that. I don't know how to decode a Dolby Surround track on a computer.

Wait, so the 2.0 is clipped to -10 dB from the 5.1?? Am I misinterpreting the screenshot?

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

No F-bombs or talk of mom's basement to be had there.

But he condescends to the fans. Oooh, it'll cost millions of dollars. Ok, then don't make The Acolyte. Problem solved.

And he's a damn liar. He KEEPS changing the movies, and the whole Greedo shooting thing was in NONE of the original scripts. And how does he not see that the need to show Vader on the Star Destroyer in R6 of Empire kills the pacing and is not needed?

The SE had one and ONLY one good change - the Falcon taking off from Mos Eisley.

So GL might be kinder, but it's a backhanded kindness.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by starmike

But he condescends to the fans. Oooh, it'll cost millions of dollars. Ok, then don't make The Acolyte. Problem solved.

Are you drunk? Lucas had absolutely nothing to do with Acolyte or anything SW since 2015.

And he's a

[Show spoiler] damn liar. He KEEPS changing the movies, and the whole Greedo shooting thing was in NONE of the original scripts. And how does he not see that the need to show Vader on the Star Destroyer in R6 of Empire kills the pacing and is not needed?

The SE had one and ONLY one good change - the Falcon taking off from Mos Eisley.

So GL might be kinder, but it's a backhanded kindness.

Blah blah blah. There's tens of thousands of pages on this site and others complaining about the Special Editions and Prequels. Last I checked this was a The Abyss thread.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Are you drunk? Lucas had absolutely nothing to do with Acolyte or anything SW since 2015.

Blah blah blah. There's tens of thousands of pages on this site and others complaining about the Special Editions and Prequels. Last I checked this was a The Abyss thread.

I'm well aware that he had nothing to do with The Acolyte, and you KNOW I know that, but the point I'm making is that he uses money as an excuse. He had money before Disney, and Disney has money now. He keeps messing with the films because for SOME reason, after almost 50 years, he just can't seem to get it right.

I mean, come on...Artoo magically hiding behind rocks? Really?

[peppapigstan]

the abussy

[motorheadache95]

Wait, is there something Lucas changed in Star Wars? Since when?

[wright96d]

Originally Posted by d34073505

Wait, so the 2.0 is clipped to -10 dB from the 5.1?? Am I misinterpreting the screenshot?

I don't think you're misinterpreting it, no. The new 4.1 restoration was adapted to 5.1 and downmixed to 2.0, presumably encoded in Dolby Stereo. They also applied a generous amount of brickwall limiting to the 2.0, resulting in a 10db+ reduction in dynamic range.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by d34073505

Wait, so the 2.0 is clipped to -10 dB from the 5.1?? Am I misinterpreting the screenshot?

Originally Posted by wright96d

I don't think you're misinterpreting it, no. The new 4.1 restoration was adapted to 5.1 and downmixed to 2.0, presumably encoded in Dolby Stereo. They also applied a generous amount of brickwall limiting to the 2.0, resulting in a 10db+ reduction in dynamic range.

I pawned my disc off, so I'll ask this in laymen's terms.

1. What's on the Atmos track, and how was it constructed?

2. What's on the 2.0 track, and how was it constructed?

3. Where is there a 5.1 track on that 4K? And how was that track constructed?

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by starmike

But he condescends to the fans. Oooh, it'll cost millions of dollars. Ok, then don't make The Acolyte. Problem solved.

And he's a damn liar. He KEEPS changing the movies, and the whole Greedo shooting thing was in NONE of the original scripts. And how does he not see that the need to show Vader on the Star Destroyer in R6 of Empire kills the pacing and is not needed?

The SE had one and ONLY one good change - the Falcon taking off from Mos Eisley.

So GL might be kinder, but it's a backhanded kindness.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Are you drunk? Lucas had absolutely nothing to do with Acolyte or anything SW since 2015.



Blah blah blah. There's tens of thousands of pages on this site and others complaining about the Special Editions and Prequels. Last I checked this was a The Abyss thread.

Originally Posted by starmike

I'm well aware that he had nothing to do with The Acolyte, and you KNOW I know that, but the point I'm making is that he uses money as an excuse. He had money before Disney, and Disney has money now. He keeps messing with the films because for SOME reason, after almost 50 years, he just can't seem to get it right.

I mean, come on...Artoo magically hiding behind rocks? Really?

He honestly is a c*nt, there's not much I like about him besides giving us his original films.

I bought him up here because at least he had a somewhat more dignified way of saying no to his fans than that rant JC went on. "Move out of their mother's basement"? Are we in f*cking middle school? I've literally heard eight-year-olds with better insults than that.

And he's right, restoring the OG versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return Of The Jedi would cost millions.

He has millions. Fox had millions. Lucasfilm has millions. Disney has millions billions.

We don't.

If they could afford millions to edit the films in 1997, and millions to edit the films in 2004, and millions to edit the films in 2011, and millions to edit the films in 2019, plus the millions they spent doing little edits between June 1977 (first edit to ANH) to 1995 (when the "Faces"/"Last Chance" transfers were created), they can afford millions to restore the films the right way.

These changes didn't improve the films at all. They tanked the films. They turned them from masterpieces of sci-fi and film as a whole into juvenile CGI shows (poor CGI, I might add). The fact that dear pompous Lucas has chosen to sitteth his fat ass down upon the original versions has only made it worse.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Last I checked this was a The Abyss thread.

It is, it's just that Lucas and Cameron have so much in common (constantly editing films, sitting on the original versions, no effs given as to how it affects the fans of the films) that they're inevitably going to be roped in together.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

It is, it's just that Lucas and Cameron have so much in common (constantly editing films, sitting on the original versions, no effs given as to how it affects the fans of the films) that they're inevitably going to be roped in together.

Only for the psychos who just can't let it go after DECADES.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Only for the psychos who just can't let it go after DECADES.

Like me.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Only for the psychos who just can't let it go after DECADES.

Do you really think that the latest incarnation of Star Wars is better than it was in '77?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by starmike

Do you really think that the latest incarnation of Star Wars is better than it was in '77?

What projection? Head to any SW thread here and see for yourself.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Stop The DOGMA

Let him project some more it makes him feel better about himself.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

He has millions. Fox had millions. Lucasfilm has millions. Disney has millions billions.

[bold mine]

Try 'billions'. Fox gave him around 4 billion for his movies.

[Chad Rouch]

Originally Posted by starmike

Do you really think that the latest incarnation of Star Wars is better than it was in '77?

No. Nor is it really worse. It's just different. I get that people don't like the changes and that they feel art is immutable and all. But it's still the same story with the same major beats.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset if you do feel strongly about the changes, but I've certainly reached a point where I know that we've lived longer with the SE's than we did the originals. The story is primarily unchanged. I can live with them, changes and all. Same goes to any minor additions, changes or fixes to Cameron's movies. Movie watching is my main hobby and I choose not to be bothered by all the changes. It just feels healthier to me.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by starmike

Do you really think that the latest incarnation of Star Wars is better than it was in '77?

^This.

Originally Posted by Stop The DOGMA

Let him project some more it makes him feel better about himself.

I don't have a projector.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

What projection? Head to any SW thread here and see for yourself.

While I think many have learned to live with it, I think those same people would pounce on unedited copies.

Originally Posted by Duffy12

[bold mine]

Try 'billions'. Fox gave him around 4 billion for his movies.

You'd think for $4 billion they'd buy him out of his Cameron clause too. Ugh.

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

No. Nor is it really worse. It's just different. I get that people don't like the changes and that they feel art is immutable and all. But it's still the same story with the same major beats.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset if you do feel strongly about the changes, but I've certainly reached a point where I know that we've lived longer with the SE's than we did the originals. The story is primarily unchanged. I can live with them, changes and all. Same goes to any minor additions, changes or fixes to Cameron's movies. Movie watching is my main hobby and I choose not to be bothered by all the changes. It just feels healthier to me.

I draw the line at 1995/1997.

Everything from original release-1995 is the same movie. They have changes, but they're not things that destroy the movie.

1997 onwards, that's where it becomes a different movie. Having grown up with the 2004 DVDs and utterly hating them (I thought Star Wars as a whole was stupid, juvenile trash and couldn't figure out why anyone liked them), it wasn't until I got the old tapes from the 80s and 90s as a teenager that I realized exactly what was wrong with those DVDs.

When you change the movie, it is no longer the same movie. Lucas did this with many of his films including the Star Wars movies, and Cameron has done this so far with every movie from T1 to Avatar 1. (Haven't seen Piranha II or Avatar 2 yet, but give it time they'll be messed with too.)

[peppapigstan]

highly doubt cameron would touch piranha 2, not even by a long shot