The Abyss 4K UHD (1989) - Page 47 - Blu-ray Forum

Trekkie313 · 12-07-2023, 02:44 AM

Those Special Edition wave shots have always looked like poo cause they weren't controlled shots on a soundstage and use primitive CGI. The most concerning shots were the first shots of the Benthic Explorer bridge looking quite pale, overcast and soft. Then that one overheard shot of the NTI ship looked like bad DVD upscale.

Danespina · 12-07-2023, 02:46 AM

Overall I thought the VFX looked great though. I'd even consider some of the extra terrestrial shots timeless.

Jbabler · 12-07-2023, 02:50 AM

One of the wave shots is just a shot of the open sea turned 90 degrees.

And the wide shot of the alien ship is total garbage and made even more jarring because the shots inside Topside are the best in the whole show.

Danespina · 12-07-2023, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbabler

the wide shot of the alien ship is total garbage.

Anyone know what happened with that one shot specifically? Why was it so much blurrier than the others?

VideoPhonic · 12-07-2023, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danespina

Anyone know what happened with that one shot specifically? Why was it so much blurrier than the others?

I’m assuming it was a digital comp rendered at a low resolution/a bad early film out also looked like fake frozen grain added on top

Jeyl · 12-07-2023, 03:05 AM

One thing I noticed was that certain sound effects were missing. When arriving at Deep Core, the valves that Lindsey turns while Cat is talking to her don't make a hiss noise, the alarm noise for Explorer losing it's thruster is missing during some shots, the first transformation of the water tentacle into Lindsey's face has no sound associated with it at all and the switch noises when Coffee desperately tries to turn Flatbed as he's falling down into the abyss are not present.

Visually, the film looks to be untouched 'goof' wise. The hand that's visible when the camera moves away from Coffee's window is still there, the guy on the beach who pulls down another guy's shorts is clear as day, and the awkward SE cut of Hippie mentioning the title wave is still present as well (Grr!).

Rizor · 12-07-2023, 03:08 AM

I took a look at a rip of the streaming version that's been around for a few years and it looks pretty solid too. I imagine the new version is from the same scan. Some of the faces looked more natural in the old version too!

Danespina · 12-07-2023, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeyl

One thing I noticed was that certain sound effects were missing. When arriving at Deep Core, the valves that Lindsey turns while Cat is talking to her don't make a hiss noise, the alarm noise for Explorer losing it's thruster is missing during some shots and the first transformation of the water tentacle into Lindsey's face has no sound associated with it at all.

Amazing you'd notice that. Good job.

I did think it was neat how you'd get water trickling sounds coming from behind you sometimes. Could be quite immersive.

chewbabka · 12-07-2023, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danespina

Well for what it's worth, James Cameron gave a special message before the film started, introducing the new presentation, and making reference to the Dolby Atmos track.

We didn’t get this at AMC.

chewbabka · 12-07-2023, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Also, I'm hearing on Reddit from those who have worked on and seen early screenings of the SE remaster that the TCF logo was changed. It's said to still the 1981-94 design but the bottom "FOX" text was altered to now read "STUDIOS" ala this fanmade monstrosity.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true or ended up for the TC also. Titanic has had the same modifications for both US (Paramount) and overseas (TC/D) releases.

OTOH, I believe True Lies will have the original 1994 logo intact since this practice seems to only effect theatrical reissues and not in-house masterings for home video/digital.

Fake news. 20th Century Fox

samlop10 · 12-07-2023, 03:11 AM

Yeah I would considerably temper expectations on how it will look on the 4K disc. The HDR might make what little grain was left in the restoration a little more apparent, but it was smoooooth. The Atmos mix sounded really good (there could be missing effects as mentioned above, but I am not very familiar to confirm either way). Cannot say the picture didn't disappoint though. If Aliens looks anything like this, I will probably stick with the standard blu ray.

As for The Abyss, did it look better than the DVD? Of course, the gain in fine detail is still apparent and the highlights are also better (I mean, DVD, the bar is not exactly high or difficult to beat), but it was far from filmic, natural, or organic given the source. It almost reminded me of T2 unfortunately. Not quite as severe, but the natural grain was lacking considerably. Shame Cameron is going the Peter Jackson route with these restorations.

Trekkie313 · 12-07-2023, 03:15 AM

I would not trust a hastily assembled DCP mirroring the DVD edits to be any sort of guide for the actual files being pressed to disc.

samlop10 · 12-07-2023, 03:19 AM

My showing also had the Cameron intro. So, I doubt they will use a different restoration for the 4K disc. The dynamic range will be different, but it will very, very, very likely use the same underlying restoration. This one, Aliens, and True Lies were also announced to become available in 4K/HDR/Atmos via streaming next week, so the transfers for home video (i.e. including 4K blu ray) are already done. I am 99% sure it is the same restoration as what I saw in the Dolby showing tonight. The only difference on the 4K disc vs streaming will be the compression and possibly special features. But not the restoration used.

Trekkie313 · 12-07-2023, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samlop10

My showing also had the Cameron intro. So, I doubt they will use a different restoration for the 4K disc. The dynamic range will be different, but it will very, very, very likely use the same underlying restoration. This one, Aliens, and True Lies were also announced to become available in 4K/HDR/Atmos via streaming next week, so the transfers for home video (i.e. including 4K blu ray) are already done. I am 99% sure it is the same restoration as what I saw in the Dolby showing tonight. The only difference on the 4K disc vs streaming will be the compression and possibly special features. But not the restoration used.

This seems more like what was shown at BeyondFest which was in 2K on who knows what kind of projector/file compression. Didn't sound like what is seen in the new trailers or what I saw. Cameron isn't going to be sloppy with music edits and cue mistakes done over 20 years ago for DVD.

mjvmovieman · 12-07-2023, 03:30 AM

Saw this tonight with a sold out crowd. And while it looked spectacular, we may yet need Croweyes still!

samlop10 · 12-07-2023, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

This seems more like what was shown at BeyondFest which was in 2K on who knows what kind of projector/file compression. Didn't sound like what is seen in the new trailers. Cameron isn't going to be sloppy with music edits and cue mistakes done over 20 years ago for DVD.

I would like to be wrong, but after the 4K of Avatar, Titanic, and what I saw tonight with the Cameron intro, I just do not see how they will use something that looks more like film on the 4K disc.

The caps from the ProRes trailer are very close to what I saw, and they lack most of the grain. A little bit is left (and it is a little more apparent here too, likely, again as said above, due to the different range), but I would be hard pressed to say this came from a 35mm source if I did not know any better. Some shots look way too smooth, especially face close-ups like the first one:

[Show spoiler]

As for the sound, again, I am not very familiar with the mix to say either way. But it has happened before where remixes have changed, removed, replaced sounds. And if Cameron thinks those changes are an improvement (assuming they are there, I am not sure), then he will approve them. He made changes to the picture since he thinks it looks better, there is nothing stopping him from applying the same logic to the sound.

surfinhank · 12-07-2023, 03:44 AM

Some pages back there was mention of the rat being replaced with cgi. Was that for real/ changed in this version?

trevorlj · 12-07-2023, 03:51 AM

I just got back from watching it in a Dolby cinema. I haven't read anyone else's posts and this is just one dude's opinion but here are my takeaways while it's fresh in my mind:

- I'm impressed & overall it was a pretty spectacular presentation
- I know it's not news but yep...definitely grain managed and de-noised. For the record I usually hate both and would surely rather own a grainy un-molested transfer. BUT...
- This has to be a more advanced/refined version of both technologies than I have ever seen on any prior presentation.

The image is squeaky clean from start to finish but there's surprisingly quite a bit of detail still present. It's not just wiped out and smeared to high heaven across the board. I've never seen anything like it. A bit of waxy cheeks on face closeups here and there...sure...but for the most part I'm not particularly broken up about the way it turned out.
- I hated Avatar's obvious AI upscale watercolor mess but if there's AI sharpening in use here it's super subtle and/or capable. No complaints on that front. I was looking for AI weirdness but didn't really catch any.
- Colors looked decent to me but I'm not that discerning on the palette change front like some of you are. I don't feel like I can comment on black levels in a projection environment other than it was relatively good and I hope it's better at home (as it probably will be).
- I spotted one ROUGH very short shot that looked to be sourced from standard def video:

[Show spoiler]

- The Atmos track was impressive. A few overhead effects when it was right and some pretty sweet side pans to match. The opening was particularly noteworthy. For a large space the bass was OK. Another one of those "I'm sure it'll be better at home."
- I swear the score was higher in the mix. Might be faulty memory though...I got rid of the SE Laserdisc a long time ago and I own but can't stomach the DVD. Regardless, the score throughout absolutely soared in the theater and kicked the whole thing up a notch.

My hopes have been raised for a good Aliens presentation (my favorite flick). Still a bit concerned with how downright chunky the grain is on that one. We'll see...

jEN0VA · 12-07-2023, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfinhank

Some pages back there was mention of the rat being replaced with cgi. Was that for real/ changed in this version?

No. Rat was still the real one.

Pocketkid2 · 12-07-2023, 04:02 AM

Can confirm, rat is still real, there is no visible grain in the image, but it doesn't matter at all because the restoration work is so good. Remember friends, it's not about grain, it's about detail. For every shot that looked slightly processed there was another shot that looked so good it could have been filmed yesterday. But I guess all you pixel peepers don't want to hear that.

12-07-2023, 02:44 AM	#921
Trekkie313 Blu-ray Baron Top contributor Member since:Nov 2010 Location:Ohio Home Theater Gallery:2 4K collection:206 Blu-ray collection:1650 DVD collection:547 Digital collection:156 Blu-ray reviews: 5 Trading Score:59	Those Special Edition wave shots have always looked like poo cause they weren't controlled shots on a soundstage and use primitive CGI. The most concerning shots were the first shots of the Benthic Explorer bridge looking quite pale, overcast and soft. Then that one overheard shot of the NTI ship looked like bad DVD upscale. Last edited by Trekkie313; 12-07-2023 at 02:52 AM.

12-07-2023, 03:05 AM	#926
Jeyl Special Member Member since:May 2009 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:595 Trading Score:6	One thing I noticed was that certain sound effects were missing. When arriving at Deep Core, the valves that Lindsey turns while Cat is talking to her don't make a hiss noise, the alarm noise for Explorer losing it's thruster is missing during some shots, the first transformation of the water tentacle into Lindsey's face has no sound associated with it at all and the switch noises when Coffee desperately tries to turn Flatbed as he's falling down into the abyss are not present. Visually, the film looks to be untouched 'goof' wise. The hand that's visible when the camera moves away from Coffee's window is still there, the guy on the beach who pulls down another guy's shorts is clear as day, and the awkward SE cut of Hippie mentioning the title wave is still present as well (Grr!). Last edited by Jeyl; 12-07-2023 at 03:19 AM.

12-07-2023, 03:51 AM	#938
trevorlj Active Member Top contributor Member since:Feb 2016 Location:Fort Worth, TX Home Theater Gallery:1 4K collection:1712 Blu-ray collection:3425 Digital collection:1133 iTunes collection:66 Blu-ray reviews:2	I just got back from watching it in a Dolby cinema. I haven't read anyone else's posts and this is just one dude's opinion but here are my takeaways while it's fresh in my mind: - I'm impressed & overall it was a pretty spectacular presentation - I know it's not news but yep...definitely grain managed and de-noised. For the record I usually hate both and would surely rather own a grainy un-molested transfer. BUT... - This has to be a more advanced/refined version of both technologies than I have ever seen on any prior presentation. The image is squeaky clean from start to finish but there's surprisingly quite a bit of detail still present. It's not just wiped out and smeared to high heaven across the board. I've never seen anything like it. A bit of waxy cheeks on face closeups here and there...sure...but for the most part I'm not particularly broken up about the way it turned out. - I hated Avatar's obvious AI upscale watercolor mess but if there's AI sharpening in use here it's super subtle and/or capable. No complaints on that front. I was looking for AI weirdness but didn't really catch any. - Colors looked decent to me but I'm not that discerning on the palette change front like some of you are. I don't feel like I can comment on black levels in a projection environment other than it was relatively good and I hope it's better at home (as it probably will be). - I spotted one ROUGH very short shot that looked to be sourced from standard def video: [Show spoiler] - The Atmos track was impressive. A few overhead effects when it was right and some pretty sweet side pans to match. The opening was particularly noteworthy. For a large space the bass was OK. Another one of those "I'm sure it'll be better at home." - I swear the score was higher in the mix. Might be faulty memory though...I got rid of the SE Laserdisc a long time ago and I own but can't stomach the DVD. Regardless, the score throughout absolutely soared in the theater and kicked the whole thing up a notch. My hopes have been raised for a good Aliens presentation (my favorite flick). Still a bit concerned with how downright chunky the grain is on that one. We'll see... Last edited by trevorlj; 12-07-2023 at 04:00 AM.

12-07-2023, 02:46 AM	#922
Danespina Expert Member Member since:Aug 2014 Trading Score:1	Overall I thought the VFX looked great though. I'd even consider some of the extra terrestrial shots timeless.

12-07-2023, 02:50 AM	#923
Jbabler Active Member Member since:Mar 2017 Blu-ray collection:42 Trading Score:10	One of the wave shots is just a shot of the open sea turned 90 degrees. And the wide shot of the alien ship is total garbage and made even more jarring because the shots inside Topside are the best in the whole show.

12-07-2023, 03:08 AM	#927
Rizor Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:NJ, USA 4K collection:1602 Blu-ray collection:6185 DVD collection:192 MA collection:73 Digital collection:51 iTunes collection:29 Prime collection:7 Blu-ray reviews: 32 Trading Score:159	I took a look at a rip of the streaming version that's been around for a few years and it looks pretty solid too. I imagine the new version is from the same scan. Some of the faces looked more natural in the old version too!

12-07-2023, 03:11 AM	#931
samlop10 Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Dec 2010 Location:Austin TX Home Theater Gallery:53 4K collection:1041 Blu-ray collection:3901 DVD collection:9 Blu-ray reviews: 59 Trading Score:1	Yeah I would considerably temper expectations on how it will look on the 4K disc. The HDR might make what little grain was left in the restoration a little more apparent, but it was smoooooth. The Atmos mix sounded really good (there could be missing effects as mentioned above, but I am not very familiar to confirm either way). Cannot say the picture didn't disappoint though. If Aliens looks anything like this, I will probably stick with the standard blu ray. As for The Abyss, did it look better than the DVD? Of course, the gain in fine detail is still apparent and the highlights are also better (I mean, DVD, the bar is not exactly high or difficult to beat), but it was far from filmic, natural, or organic given the source. It almost reminded me of T2 unfortunately. Not quite as severe, but the natural grain was lacking considerably. Shame Cameron is going the Peter Jackson route with these restorations.

12-07-2023, 03:15 AM	#932
Trekkie313 Blu-ray Baron Top contributor Member since:Nov 2010 Location:Ohio Home Theater Gallery:2 4K collection:206 Blu-ray collection:1650 DVD collection:547 Digital collection:156 Blu-ray reviews: 5 Trading Score:59	I would not trust a hastily assembled DCP mirroring the DVD edits to be any sort of guide for the actual files being pressed to disc.

12-07-2023, 03:19 AM	#933
samlop10 Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Dec 2010 Location:Austin TX Home Theater Gallery:53 4K collection:1041 Blu-ray collection:3901 DVD collection:9 Blu-ray reviews: 59 Trading Score:1	My showing also had the Cameron intro. So, I doubt they will use a different restoration for the 4K disc. The dynamic range will be different, but it will very, very, very likely use the same underlying restoration. This one, Aliens, and True Lies were also announced to become available in 4K/HDR/Atmos via streaming next week, so the transfers for home video (i.e. including 4K blu ray) are already done. I am 99% sure it is the same restoration as what I saw in the Dolby showing tonight. The only difference on the 4K disc vs streaming will be the compression and possibly special features. But not the restoration used.

12-07-2023, 03:30 AM	#935
mjvmovieman Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Feb 2010 Blu-ray collection:136 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:2 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:267	Saw this tonight with a sold out crowd. And while it looked spectacular, we may yet need Croweyes still!

12-07-2023, 03:44 AM	#937
surfinhank Special Member Top contributor Member since:May 2009 4K collection:743 Blu-ray collection:8080 Blu-ray reviews: 11 Trading Score:128	Some pages back there was mention of the rat being replaced with cgi. Was that for real/ changed in this version?

12-07-2023, 04:02 AM	#940
Pocketkid2 Active Member Member since:Dec 2018 4K collection:189 Blu-ray collection:210	Can confirm, rat is still real, there is no visible grain in the image, but it doesn't matter at all because the restoration work is so good. Remember friends, it's not about grain, it's about detail. For every shot that looked slightly processed there was another shot that looked so good it could have been filmed yesterday. But I guess all you pixel peepers don't want to hear that.

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