Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[cleeve]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

I do think we are venturing into the law of diminishing returns here with UHD. When you get a brand new film with modern mastering, the difference between BD and UHD is pretty negligible.

Of course the big difference comes when you have say a BD from 2008, and that film then gets a modern 4K scan, I think then you get big improvements.

I find it hard to justify the costs of UHD discs, particuarly when the BD of a said film will be in the £6 bargain bin within 3-6 months. The asking price of £25 for a new release is too much.

Arguably the largest justification for UHD is HDR, which obviously none of these screenshots portray. It only tends to be a few $$ difference between a new blu-ray and a new UHD disc, anyway.

[Ben_UK]

Originally Posted by cleeve

Arguably the largest justification for UHD is HDR, which obviously none of these screenshots portray. It only tends to be a few $$ difference between a new blu-ray and a new UHD disc, anyway.

That probably very much depends on where you live. If you live in Trumpland, then yep, the prices may be that way, however in the UK, a new release for UHD is £25, which in dollars at today’s exchange rate is $34.90.

Even a new Blu Ray, will have a release price of no less than £15 (so $21). So for us, there is a massive difference in cost.

[cleeve]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

That probably very much depends on where you live. If you live in Trumpland, then yep, the prices may be that way, however in the UK, a new release for UHD is £25, which in dollars at today’s exchange rate is $34.90.

Even a new Blu Ray, will have a release price of no less than £15 (so $21). So for us, there is a massive difference in cost.

Yeah, that's a substantial difference in the UK. I'd probably be much more picky with which 4K discs I'd choose to adopt if I had to deal with that kind of disparity.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

I do think we are venturing into the law of diminishing returns here with UHD. When you get a brand new film with modern mastering, the difference between BD and UHD is pretty negligible.

Of course the big difference comes when you have say a BD from 2008, and that film then gets a modern 4K scan, I think then you get big improvements.

I find it hard to justify the costs of UHD discs, particuarly when the BD of a said film will be in the £6 bargain bin within 3-6 months. The asking price of £25 for a new release is too much.

Depends on the film and the lensing/mastering choices therein. Some stuff won't benefit hugely no matter K's are thrown at it, some stuff smashes the Blu-ray despite being a mere upscale. There's a definite diminishing return when it comes to spatial resolution alone, that the jump from HD to UHD isn't as big as SD to HD was because 2K is roughly the limit of 'good enough', so you've gotta work hard to provide some sort of vastly appreciable resolution leap over the 2K version when all things are equal (as you say, it's no wonder that a brand new 4K transfer on UHD will destroy a 10yo BD). This is where UHD's other numerous benefits come into play, ones that certainly cannot be fully appreciated from SDR converted caps.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

I do think we are venturing into the law of diminishing returns here with UHD. When you get a brand new film with modern mastering, the difference between BD and UHD is pretty negligible.

Of course the big difference comes when you have say a BD from 2008, and that film then gets a modern 4K scan, I think then you get big improvements.

Agreed, I'm specifically upgrading catalog titles that had a very old BD release from an old master/encode.

For new releases it just makes sense to buy the UHD Combo Pack

[Dubstar]

less talk more screen comparison pics

[andreasy969]

Credit where credit is due - caps has way better Ex Machina caps than I had: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=11388&d2=11370&c=4505

They also have Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, Spider-Man 3, John Wick, John Wick 2 and Logan now. (those were new to me)

reg. Spider-Man (part 1): I didn't like that one in SDR at all btw. and the caps show pretty well why that was the case: extremely harsh picture and I, for one, do prefer my Mi4K BD by far. I will reserve judgement reg. the colors, but I still somehow doubt that my opinion on that one will change with HDR.

I also noticed that Spidey 2 appears to mirror the master of the initial BD instead of the Mi4K BD (which I don't have in this case).

[chip75]

Originally Posted by cleeve

It only tends to be a few $$ difference between a new blu-ray and a new UHD disc, anyway.

In the UK we usually get our new releases priced the following:

£13 / $18.13 Some standard Blu-rays
£15 / $20.92 2D Blu-rays (if there's a 3D release as well)
£18 / $25.10 Some 3D Blu-rays
£20 / $27.89 3D Blu-rays
£25 / $34.86 UHD BDs

But places like HMV often have catalogue releases in a 5 for £30 ($41.83), new releases in a 2 for £25 and older UHDs in 2 for £30.

Personally I'd like to see UHDs drop down towards 3D pricing to be a bit more. I think the £10-12 difference might be putting a few people of.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Credit where credit is due - caps has way better Ex Machina caps than I had: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=11388&d2=11370&c=4505

They also have Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, Spider-Man 3, John Wick, John Wick 2 and Logan now. (those were new to me)

reg. Spider-Man (part 1): I didn't like that one in SDR at all btw. and the caps show pretty well why that was the case: extremely harsh picture and I, for one, do prefer my Mi4K BD by far. I will reserve judgement reg. the colors, but I still somehow doubt that my opinion on that one will change with HDR.

I also noticed that Spidey 2 appears to mirror the master of the initial BD instead of the Mi4K BD (which I don't have in this case).

Spidey 1 has a VERY high MaxFALL so I'm not surprised that it doesn't convert at all well into SDR. The grain doesn't look as good as it does on other Sony UHDs either, it's a bit noisier and chunkier to my eyes. (Last time I looked at their Spidey 1 caps they had some of those blocking artefacts that you mentioned were linked to a madVR setting.)

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The grain doesn't look as good as it does on other Sony UHDs either, it's a bit noisier and chunkier to my eyes.

Yes, this. My initial impression was actually 'sharpened', but there is more detail, so it's not that simple. But whatever it is, I really don't like that one even if I dismiss the colors for now.

[Geoff D]

It's not one of Sony's best. I like the presentation, but I don't love it.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I also noticed that Spidey 2 appears to mirror the master of the initial BD instead of the Mi4K BD (which I don't have in this case).

I think the UHD BD and the Master in 4K release are from the same master, the original Blu-ray is framed differently.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

I think the UHD BD and the Master in 4K release are from the same master, the original Blu-ray is framed differently.

Yes, the two 4K derived versions clearly come from the same source although they corrected the framing goof with Dream Ben in the car (check the right hand side of the shot): http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a...112398&i=5&l=0

The 4Ks of Spideys 2 and 3 are chuffin' marvellous.

[edit] He might mean in terms of the grading that it looks more like the original than the Mi4K tho

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

[edit] He might mean in terms of the grading that it looks more like the original than the Mi4K tho

This.

Might still be the same master of course though. EDIT: So let me rephrase: I noticed the grading being close to the initial BD instead of the Mi4K. Which I found interesting.

[andreasy969]

The Greatest Showman

Boy, does this disc look lovely (and makes me want to buy a HDR projector rather sooner than later).

UHD-BD (madVR/SDR/200 nits) left, BD (upscaled) right

Disclaimer as to why the UHD-BD images may appear to be too dim:

[Show spoiler]Please note that the UHD-BD shots have been converted from HDR to SDR using special techniques, which drastically compresses the dynamic range of the original image (the color bit depth has been compressed as well). The UHD-BD shots are therefore not an accurate representation of the original HDR image - dynamic range, colors (tone and intensity) and contrast should be taken with a big pinch of salt and the main focus should be on comparing details. Typically, the image will appear too dark, may lack a certain "pop" and may at times also appear "boosted" when compared to the BD shots. The SDR conversion should still give you a good idea of the actual image of the UHD-BD though and one should also be able to at least catch a glimpse of the increased dynamic range. The BD shots have been upscaled for comparison purposes, but other than that should be accurate. You might also want to check out this post of mine (incl. the further link there) where I tried to show/explain this:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=589

[infiniteCR]

Originally Posted by cleeve

Arguably the largest justification for UHD is HDR, which obviously none of these screenshots portray. It only tends to be a few $$ difference between a new blu-ray and a new UHD disc, anyway.

"Arguably" is right. I agree with the other poster, the largest justification for me is the new scans and potentially more pleasing grades of older films or redoing things without the contrast boosting, DNR, EE, etc.. The HDR, in the narrow sense of the term to mean the specular highlights and the bump up in APL, is actually one of the areas I am least impressed with and would prefer not to have... but it can be the lesser of two evils especially in films like the Mummy where the new scan makes a world of difference.

[juanbauty@yahoo.es]

thanks for all those caps, andreasy969, very appreciated

[benhoppel]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

The Greatest Showman

Boy, does this disc look lovely (and makes me want to buy a HDR projector rather sooner than later).

UHD-BD (madVR/SDR/200 nits) left, BD (upscaled) right

Now this is real 4K versus 1080p. I wish 2K DIs would go away...

[Geoff D]

It is? I thought it was an upscale lol

[cleeve]

Originally Posted by benhoppel

Now this is real 4K versus 1080p. I wish 2K DIs would go away...

Oh the irony