Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[FullyArray]

^ Minor res uptick. UHD looks cleaner also. What is that on the BD? Compression artifacts? Color noise?

[andreasy969]

Deepwater Horizon

I do have some time to kill ... Other than that, I just received "Jack Reacher" (together with the MIs) and might still do that one today, but there'll be a little break as far as I am concerned.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/116139

BD (upscaled) left, UHD-BD (madVR/SDR/200 nits) right

Disclaimer as to why the UHD-BD images may appear to be too dim:

[Show spoiler]Please note that the UHD-BD shots have been converted from HDR to SDR using special techniques, which drastically compresses the dynamic range of the original image (the color bit depth has been compressed as well). The UHD-BD shots are therefore not an accurate representation of the original HDR image - dynamic range, colors (tone and intensity) and contrast should be taken with a big pinch of salt and the main focus should be on comparing details. Typically, the image will appear too dark (which is by design when the caps are done at 200 nits), may lack a certain "pop" and may at times also appear "boosted" when compared to the BD shots. The SDR conversion should still give you a good idea of the actual image of the UHD-BD though and one should also be able to at least catch a glimpse of the increased dynamic range. The BD shots have been upscaled for comparison purposes, but other than that should be accurate. You might also want to check out this post of mine (incl. the further link there) where I tried to show/explain this:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=589

[andreasy969]

Jack Reacher

I have one comment below.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/116154

BD (upscaled) left, UHD-BD (madVR/SDR/200 nits) right

Disclaimer as to why the UHD-BD images may appear to be too dim:

[Show spoiler]Please note that the UHD-BD shots have been converted from HDR to SDR using special techniques, which drastically compresses the dynamic range of the original image (the color bit depth has been compressed as well). The UHD-BD shots are therefore not an accurate representation of the original HDR image - dynamic range, colors (tone and intensity) and contrast should be taken with a big pinch of salt and the main focus should be on comparing details. Typically, the image will appear too dark (which is by design when the caps are done at 200 nits), may lack a certain "pop" and may at times also appear "boosted" when compared to the BD shots. The SDR conversion should still give you a good idea of the actual image of the UHD-BD though and one should also be able to at least catch a glimpse of the increased dynamic range. The BD shots have been upscaled for comparison purposes, but other than that should be accurate. You might also want to check out this post of mine (incl. the further link there) where I tried to show/explain this:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=589

#3 1000 nits
























something went wrong here a second or so later around the 01:30:59 mark, but the BD has it as well (can't remember if I noticed this when watching the BD back then)

[Amano]

Deepwater Horizon boasts a very nice uptick in resolution.

Valerian is just a small upgrade to the BD, sometimes I like the noisier BD picture more.

[Fendergopher]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

They did an amazing job on them. I saw signs of chroma noise back when I first watched them (which would later loom so large on SPR's UHD) but that's a very minor quibble and rewatching them in DV should clean that up nicely. Incidentally, the caps for the MI movies look much the same in terms of the chroma noise in the HDR10 layer, it's there if you look for it but in DV I'm sure they'll be fine.

You wouldn't have happened to have rewatched SPR in DV yet have you? I'm not sure how much a DV layer could really do to alleviate the chroma issues, although maybe it works out better in motion. Those chroma artifacts really don't look good, at least in caps.

[Agent Kay]

This thread needs an index, I wanted to see the Martian pix and that's a lot of pages to flip thru

[aetherhole]

Originally Posted by Fendergopher

You wouldn't have happened to have rewatched SPR in DV yet have you? I'm not sure how much a DV layer could really do to alleviate the chroma issues, although maybe it works out better in motion. Those chroma artifacts really don't look good, at least in caps.

If I recall correctly, Geoff did watch (or least sampled?) SPR in DV and did see an improvement in chroma anomalies; not gone, but improved.

[UpsetSmiley]

Think I'll be sticking with my Jack Reacher Blu-ray Steelbook, looks like a very subtle uptick. Probably undecipherable on a sub 70" TV.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by aetherhole

If I recall correctly, Geoff did watch (or least sampled?) SPR in DV and did see an improvement in chroma anomalies; not gone, but improved.

Yes, much improved as it went from being unwatchable (not kidding, I turned the colour all the way down and watched the rest in black and white after Wade gets killed) to a mild irritant.

Why would this be the case? Bear in mind that the Dolby enhancement layer is being used to literally rebuild the film in its holy image, unpacking whatever extended highlights and/or improved 12-bit gradations have been wrapped into that special sauce enhancement, grafting it atop the HDR10 layer, so it's not beyond the realms that the compression is also being aided by having these extra pixels mapped in.

And we don't know for sure but Dolby's display management unit may also be using their ICtCp colour sampling for the internal processing, this is a more 'HDR friendly' method than YCbCr and it could also be a contributing factor. (The output itself is still YCbCr from the player) As an example, if I watch Blade Runner or Apollo 13 in forced DV then the (dreadful IMO) chroma artefacts on those two are tidied up quite nicely. Not eliminated, but definitely improved.

[Spartan21]

Andreasy, your work is amazing buddy, you just keep churning these comparisons in! These comparisons are just great for deciding if to hold on to the Blu-ray or upgrade to UHD. You're saving people money or you're increasing the happiness of enjoying a great UHD transfer, haha. Keep up the fantastic work! I'm sure it's not just me who appreciates it.

[Fendergopher]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes, much improved as it went from being unwatchable (not kidding, I turned the colour all the way down and watched the rest in black and white after Wade gets killed) to a mild irritant.

Why would this be the case? Bear in mind that the Dolby enhancement layer is being used to literally rebuild the film in its holy image, unpacking whatever extended highlights and/or improved 12-bit gradations have been wrapped into that special sauce enhancement, grafting it atop the HDR10 layer, so it's not beyond the realms that the compression is also being aided by having these extra pixels mapped in.

And we don't know for sure but Dolby's display management unit may also be using their ICtCp colour sampling for the internal processing, this is a more 'HDR friendly' method than YCbCr and it could also be a contributing factor. (The output itself is still YCbCr from the player) As an example, if I watch Blade Runner or Apollo 13 in forced DV then the (dreadful IMO) chroma artefacts on those two are tidied up quite nicely. Not eliminated, but definitely improved.

That's interesting how forcing DV on BR and Apollo 13 helps with chroma issues, that does suggest that DV mode has something interesting going on behind the scenes besides enabling dynamic metadata. Does forcing DV on non-DV discs result in any side effects apart from aiding in chroma compression?

[Geoff D]

It's not even enabling dynamic metadata, it's just applying a competent static tone map to the HDR10 content. On my ZD9 the forced DV is crushing black by a couple of clicks, but OLED owners report no such crush so it's definitely reacting differently from brand to brand.

[Fendergopher]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not even enabling dynamic metadata, it's just applying a competent static tone map to the HDR10 content. On my ZD9 the forced DV is crushing black by a couple of clicks, but OLED owners report no such crush so it's definitely reacting differently from brand to brand.

Yes of course, I know that it's not creating dynamic metadata for HDR10, I just meant that it seems like even for DV compatible material it seems like the DV mode is doing something else behind the scenes besides simply throughputting the DV layer to the TV. I could be way off base though, but there's probably a couple of different ingredients in Dolby's special sauce beyond their precious 12 Bits.

Tone mapping and metadata still has a lot of kinks to work through, several years after their introduction into the consumer market. I guess that's what happens with cutting edge technology being spread out over so many different commercial actors. Simply going by their output I'd say Sony have the right idea for the most part, but they're not perfect either.

[Geoff D]

Yep, there's no perfect solution for handling static metadata, HDR should never have been brought to market in this state.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

This thread needs an index, I wanted to see the Martian pix and that's a lot of pages to flip thru

Well ... I actually linked you to it twice already (it's postcount 634 - I even know the number by now because of it):
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=94
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=104

and there's also the search function. (Soo ... not sure whether I'm on your ignore list or you're not paying attention.)

Originally Posted by UpsetSmiley

Think I'll be sticking with my Jack Reacher Blu-ray Steelbook, looks like a very subtle uptick. Probably undecipherable on a sub 70" TV.

I honestly think it's a relatively large upgrade, but then again that's actually what the caps are there for (in addition to user feedback): Decide for yourself.

Quite often not that big differences can look even nicer in motion though btw. Good example is Joy imo. The BD really looks slightly "ugly" to my eyes in comparison (and the caps show this already). BDs often have this typical "BD look" to me even without comparing it by now - and that's even in SDR mind you. Whether it's (always) worth the upgrade still is another story of course.

Originally Posted by Spartan21

Andreasy, your work is amazing buddy, you just keep churning these comparisons in! These comparisons are just great for deciding if to hold on to the Blu-ray or upgrade to UHD. You're saving people money or you're increasing the happiness of enjoying a great UHD transfer, haha. Keep up the fantastic work! I'm sure it's not just me who appreciates it.

Thank you again for the very kind feedback - I really appretiate it.

While I'm at it ... The same goes for all the "thanks", especially reg. those who give it on a rather regular basis - you'll know who you are. I'm actually not really a fan of the thanks feature in forums (and if I was looking for thanks, I'd post photos of my slipcovers instead ) and tend to use it rather scarcely myself, which is why I do appretiate it even more.

Anyway, I currently still intend to do all of my "old" discs (which don't have a comparison yet), so I'm not done yet resp. there'll still be more, but only next week.

[Synchg]

so after the initial the martian 2k-upscale UHD release, they went back and used native 4K scenes for the non-CG shots BUT then DNR'd it? wtf

[Theta Sigma]

Any possibility of a comparison between the BD and UHD of Love Simon? Been considering importing the US release since the UK only has DVD, so just wanted to see if the UHD was worth getting over the Blu-ray.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Synchg

so after the initial the martian 2k-upscale UHD release, they went back and used native 4K scenes for the non-CG shots BUT then DNR'd it? wtf

You might mean the right thing, but there's still a mistake hidden somewhere.

They went back and used native, untouched 4K scenes for the initial UHD release (already) and DNRd those (only) with the Extended UHD release (or - and more likely I guess - just used the previously DNRd stuff for the EE UHD to begin with).

[Synchg]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

You might mean the right thing, but there's still a mistake hidden somewhere.

They went back and used native, untouched 4K scenes for the initial UHD release (already) and DNRd those (only) with the Extended UHD release (or - and more likely I guess - just used the previously DNRd stuff for the EE UHD to begin with).

hmm i thought the TC UHD release was an upscale and people complained so they went back and used native 4k shots for the extended UHD release, my bad.

have there been any Exodus UHD screenshots yet? I remember people clamoring how great it looked when first release, but since then has come to the conclusion it's an average 4K release.
I saw some awful banding in some night time scenes, wondering if it was my tv or UHD disc

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Synchg

hmm i thought the TC UHD release was an upscale and people complained so they went back and used native 4k shots for the extended UHD release, my bad.

OK, so you really meant the wrong thing. Other than that, I mostly remember people complaining about the noise with the initial release. Which may or may not be a/the reason for the filtered extended UHD.

have there been any Exodus UHD screenshots yet?

Originally Posted by Theta Sigma

Any possibility of a comparison between the BD and UHD of Love Simon?

I don't own any of those at any rate, so will have to pass. I'm sure I've seen Exodus caps somewhere though.