HDR Discussion Thread

[LordoftheRings]

I was sure it was Chuck. Who's that Bruck Heimer guy? ...Certainly no actor or I would know.

* Gorgeous day here today.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Actually I was referring to revision of things by Samsung of a highly technical nature (ex. BezierCurveAnchors, DistributionMaxRGB, etc. with regards to the documentation for 2094-40[HDR10+]), not as to whether end users are currently receiving that particular dynamic metadata solution with some content thru their latest TVs.

Progress Note:
Revisions for SMPTE ST 2094-40 (what you guys know as HDR10+) are in final committee draft ballot.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Well, you would lose money if you bet against Geoff D.

definitely, if when I eventually visit him in that obscure region of England if he ever challenges me to that snooker thing as I wouldn't even know what ball I'm supposed to knock

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I was sure it was Chuck. Who's that Bruck Heimer guy? ...Certainly no actor or I would know.
* Gorgeous day here today.

Now I think you’re definitely funnin us. But in case not, here’s a chance to redeem yourself for that Chuck Norris misstep. To demonstrate the flying pedigree this movie has and the thoughtfulness going into it, Question –

What other Producer for Top Gun: Maverick (other than Tom Cruise of course) also has a pilot’s license….and actually more.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Progress Note:
Revisions for SMPTE ST 2094-40 (what you guys know as HDR10+) are in final committee draft ballot.

What might some of those revisions be?

[LordoftheRings]

When using Safari Explorer (HDR version), I got this:
• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ellison

2020 Top Gun: Maverick - Producer: David Ellison

"Ellison is an aerobatic, commercial, fixed-wing, multi-engine and helicopter licensed pilot with instrument ratings...

...As an actor, Ellison has performed in the films Flyboys...

...In 2014, Ellison launched a new line of men's clothing, called the "LANAI Collection."

Originally Posted by :penton:

What other Producer for Top Gun: Maverick (other than Tom Cruise of course) also has a pilot’s license….and actually more.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

What might some of those revisions be?

Off the top of my head: metadata, Bezier curve tone mapping, distribution of MaxRGB, fraction of bright pixels, processing window constraints....all being different from Samsung's original proposal to SMPTE.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

2020 Top Gun: Maverick - Producer: David Ellison

"Ellison is an aerobatic, commercial, fixed-wing, multi-engine and helicopter licensed pilot with instrument ratings...

There you have it. In real life, not just one, but two! accomplished pilots who are Producers for Top Gun: Maverick.

[Penton-Man]

If you're in Paris, hang in there DaBa

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

After further testing from multiple members at avs, everything hdr on Amazon shows up as hdr10+ in the video Info when you use the developer Info option. Netflix shows regular hdr10.

Interesting and good to know as I missed your follow-up post ^.
But recall with Netflix Dolby Vision shows….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

with regards to Netflix streaming, remember, Dolby Vision is natively 12-bit in the ICtCp color space. At encode, there is preprocessing and shaping into 10-bit HEVC for distribution and then it is mapped back to render a 12-bit ICtCp frame in a Dolby Vision enabled consumer 10-bit TV when viewing Dolby Vision streaming content. From there it gets tone mapped to the actual display's characteristics using dynamic metadata.

As I mentioned on the last page, which included one hyperlink to a previous post I made about ICtCp (but there are several others dating as far back as early 2016, e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post11886102), introducing ICtCp, then following its progression thru JCT-VC for support in HEVC (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...p#post12775898) and explaining in other posts along the way that I believe it is a superior color model for wide color gamut.

ICtCp, which for one thing, should result in noticeably less noise in blues as compared to HDR10+, an appearance which I’d imagine will become even more evident with dem fancy 8K tvs.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Off the top of my head: metadata, Bezier curve tone mapping, distribution of MaxRGB, fraction of bright pixels, processing window constraints....all being different from Samsung's original proposal to SMPTE.

Thanks for the info. So it's still a moving target then, even though the first two disc releases using HDR10+ have been announced for shipping this month!

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Thanks for the info. So it's still a moving target then, even though the first two disc releases using HDR10+ have been announced for shipping this month!

There is a lot to complain about with regards to HDR10+, but I don't think this is one of them. The fact that it is an open source format makes it easier to constantly refine and upgrade it, and even fix it if there are any issues.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

The fact that it is an open source format makes it easier to constantly refine and upgrade it, and even fix it if there are any issues.

They claim this, but is it really?
Samsung already gave up on pushing HDR10+ firmware to earlier sets. Are fixes going to be that easy?

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They claim this, but is it really?
Samsung already gave up on pushing HDR10+ firmware to earlier sets. Are fixes going to be that easy?

I guess we will find out.

There was some sort of issue where there was lag between when the scene changed and when the dynamic metadata kicked in when they first demo'd it on a UHD blu ray player. It will be interesting to see, starting next week, if that was fixed. I'm sure we will get reports from pro reviewers or any owners who are HDR10+ capable.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Thanks for the info. So it's still a moving target then, even though the first two disc releases using HDR10+ have been announced for shipping this month!

All 3 docs are Dec 11, and El Royale is Jan 1.

So some test subjects for Samsung owners sooner than later.

Q: Are you all set up to play these if they’re the real thing?

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Progress Note:
Revisions for SMPTE ST 2094-40 (what you guys know as HDR10+) are in final committee draft ballot.

Perhaps the committee could intervene in the situation of "still no downloadable demo" and put this right?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

There you have it. In real life, not just one, but two! accomplished pilots who are Producers for Top Gun: Maverick.

Chuck Norris is also a certified and accomplished pilot?

[Geoff D]

Chuck Norris doesn't need a plane to fly.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Chuck Norris doesn't need a plane to fly.

He flies because the Earth is afraid to hold him down.

[Staying Salty]

https://www.valueelectronics.com/upl...elta_ICtCp.pdf

➢ DeltaE 2000
▪ Commonly used Industry Standard
▪ Formula assumes the human visual system is adapted to white, so you see smaller errors and more inaccurate measurements near black
▪ Inaccuracies with HDR and WCG displays because data set does not cover this expanded color range.

➢ Delta ICtCp
▪ Formula assumes unlimited adaption states so the human visual system is adapted to each color for the patch you are measuring
▪ Predicts gamma and grayscale errors more accurately at the low end (closest to black) and at the high end (closest to white)
▪ Designed for HDR and WCG displays
▪ Works for SDR displays as well

Edit: Penton-Man’s bread crumbs show that DanBa had previously posted this link. I am going to blame that Top Gun flyover for distracting me.