Samsung 4K UHD Blu-ray Player UBD-K8500

[Wiidesire]

Originally Posted by chip75

In short, let your player handle the decision, use Auto if you have that option!

I don't agree. YCbCr 4:2:0 is the best setting at the moment because the content has been encoded this way. If you choose YCbCr 4:2:2 / 4:4:4 or RGB you will have a quality loss (it's small but it still exists) because the Blu-ray Player has to convert the footage in real time.

That's also one of the best things about the new UHD players. Haven't seen it mentioned here yet. Up to HDMI 1.4 YCbCr 4:2:0 is not supported by the HDMI standard so you will have quality loss. HDMI 2.0 supports YCbCr 4:2:0.

If the Samsung UHD Player doesn't have the option to output YCbCr 4:2.0 then it's a huge bummer.

[elwaylite]

I cant choose colorspace (ycbcr 444, 422) on my display and the only options the player has is Auto, 444 ycbcr and RGB settings. I chose ycbcr 444 because I have always seen less banding vs players that allowed for 422.

[Wiidesire]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

the only options the player has is Auto, 444 ycbcr and RGB settings

That's a pretty embarrassing design failure. Thanks for informing me. Guess I won't buy this player after all.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Wiidesire

I don't agree. YCbCr 4:2:0 is the best setting at the moment because the content has been encoded this way. If you choose YCbCr 4:2:2 / 4:4:4 or RGB you will have a quality loss (it's small but it still exists) because the Blu-ray Player has to convert the footage in real time.

The Samsung doesn't offer 4:2:0. Auto should be RGB limited or YCbCr 4:2:2, my point was the setting isn't something to get stressed about. Not many BD players even offer 4:2:0.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Wiidesire

That's a pretty embarrassing design failure. Thanks for informing me. Guess I won't buy this player after all.

Samsung and LG players have been limited on color space selections for awhile now.

[movielover1069]

Originally Posted by chip75

You want the settings to match the content as close as possible. Blu-rays are in 16-235 which is the represented by RGB's standard (or limited) mode. They're also YCbCr 4:2:0, but most players output 4:2:2 and/or 4:4:4 so you don't always have an extract match.

Not all displays feature full RGB mode either, it's usually a PC monitor feature (I'm not sure about 4K sets), I'm not sure what the specifications are for UHD BDs, I think they're wider than BDs.

In short, let your player handle the decision, use Auto if you have that option!

Thanks for your help!

[chip75]

Originally Posted by movielover1069

Thanks for your help!

It helps to run a brightness/contrast calibration after changes the settings to see if any clipping occurs. You don't want the player to obscure black-than-black blacks, you want to remove them through calibration, if they're gone before they hit the TV your RGB/YCbCr settings are wrong and you're clipping.

[DeathToTNA]

Couldn't wait any longer. Went home during my lunch break and gave my eyes a little treat.

No issues with my Samsung UN55JU7100. Turned off HDMI Deep Color like someone suggested on the player. No binding, no ghosting.


http://i.imgur.com/ysAoBUh.jpg

[Wiidesire]

Originally Posted by chip75

The Samsung doesn't offer 4:2:0. Auto should be RGB limited or YCbCr 4:2:2, my point was the setting isn't something to get stressed about. Not many BD players even offer 4:2:0.

It definitely is. Someone asked what the best setting is. YCbCr 4:2:0 doesn't need any reencoding of the original footage which gives it the best quality and exactly how the "author" intended it to be seen.

Name one player with YCbCr 4:2:0 support? It would have to run outside the official HDMI specification.

Again: only since HDMI 2.0 YCbCr 4:2:0 is supported. Which means that you need both a UHD-Player and a UHD TV with HDMI 2.0 support.

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Samsung and LG players have been limited on color space selections for awhile now.

See above. Color space couldn't be YCbCr 4:2:0 before because of HDMI limitations.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Wiidesire

It definitely is. Someone asked what the best setting is. YCbCr 4:2:0 doesn't need any reencoding of the original footage which gives it the best quality and exactly how the "author" intended it to be seen.

Name one player with YCbCr 4:2:0 support? It would have to run outside the official HDMI specification.

Again: only since HDMI 2.0 YCbCr 4:2:0 is supported. Which means that you need both a UHD-Player and a UHD TV with HDMI 2.0 support.


See above. Color space couldn't be YCbCr 4:2:0 before because of HDMI limitations.

I understand that, but to not offer 422 because some displays didnt handle 444 properly, was a little lazy. Panny and Oppo always offered ycbcr 422 and 444.

[drjay71]

Quick question for you all as I am considering jumping to UHD Blu-Ray.

I have both a 4K TV (70") and a "4K" JVC projector paired with a 133" 2.35 screen. When I watch 1080p and streamming 4K content on my TV I have a very hard time telling the difference and because of that I am not getting UHD Blu Ray for my TV.

On the other hand, 1080p Blu-Rays look VERY good on my JVC projector and screen, however, even though the projector is technically a 1080P projector with "4K" E-shift, I suspect 4K UHD Blu-Rays will be noticeably better at that size of a screen. Even 4K YouTube videos streamed from my 1080P Apple TV look really good.

For my projector and screen, it DOES make sense to jump to UHD Blu-Ray right? It is worth the improvement I feel. I realize I also need an HD Fury Integral to deal with HDCP 2.2 issues since my JVC is not HDCP 2.2 compliant. My AVR is HDCP 2.2 compliant so we are good there.

Thanks

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Wiidesire

YCbCr 4:2:0 doesn't need any reencoding of the original footage which gives it the best quality and exactly how the "author" intended it to be seen.

We know that, but none of the options support it. All the others are compromises, the Auto setting should still be suitable, but you should check your display for clipping no matter what the output is.

[Wiidesire]

Originally Posted by chip75

We know that, but none of the options support it.

That was my point. Samsung definitely needs to patch this. YCbCr 4:2:2 should also be selectable.

I agree with you that the auto setting is probably the best for this player right now. You'll have quality loss with every option available anyway.

[movielover1069]

Originally Posted by chip75

It helps to run a brightness/contrast calibration after changes the settings to see if any clipping occurs. You don't want the player to obscure black-than-black blacks, you want to remove them through calibration, if they're gone before they hit the TV your RGB/YCbCr settings are wrong and you're clipping.

I have no idea how to do that. By trying the different HDMI settings on the Samsung player, have I messed anything up? Hopefully not. After awhile I just gave up and put it on Auto. Also, no idea what clipping is. Btw, I really appreciate your help with this 👍😃😃

[tkbryant]

Picked up my player & 4 movies on my way home. I had preordered it last Thursday from a local Best Buy for in-store delivery. Got it for 359.99 with a 10% off coupon too!!! Hooked it up to my Vizio MC65-C1 & all is well so far. I will hopefully update later after watching The Martian.

I picked up Martian, Exodus,Scorch Trials, & Kingsman

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

The Samsung doesn't offer 4:2:0. Auto should be RGB limited or YCbCr 4:2:2, my point was the setting isn't something to get stressed about. Not many BD players even offer 4:2:0.

None of them do because HDMI 1.4 didn't have 4:2:0 transmission in the spec, this was rectified for HDMI 2.0 (as said above).

But from looking at the UHD Samsung's output options they still haven't got the memo, it doesn't even have 4:2:2 never mind 4:2:0, just 4:4:4 so the player is doing the chroma upsampling itself (which is much the same feature that Panasonic are crowing about in the PR fluff for their UHD player).

But I think that's why some folks are having issues with the splash screen not coming up on the UHD Samsung player, because it's outputting 4K 60P @ 4:4:4, and even at 8-bit that's still too much for older 10.2 Gb/s HDMI chips to handle.

[elwaylite]

The big problem I had was 2160p forced, 444 ycbcr colorspace, and deep color on. That would be 4k/60 12 bit, and it took the screen out. Once I went back to DC off it became 4K/60 8 bit and all was fine. This was using a 18gbps monoprice redmere cable. Once I pulled it and hooked up a passive BJC FE series HDMI (these are Premium HDMI Certified) all was well. I am also not the only one to have issues with the redmere active cables. I have some new proper length BJC FE cables coming and I am gonna swap everything out.

[Geoff D]

Aye, 4K 60p 12-bit @ 4:4:4 isn't actually part of the current HDMI 2.0 spec so it's no wonder some people had issues with the 4K 60p output when Deep Colour was enabled, even those with 18 Gb/s HDMI chips (although Deep Colour is still completely pointless, it's just padding out the signal with useless bits).

[elwaylite]

Yep, the OLED guys are really happy so far (using UHD discs) with:

samsung
2160p forced
ycbcr 444 out
DC Off

LG OLED
WCG on

The Denons report 4K/24 444 10 bit, which is what you would expect. The new HDMI 2.0a Denon's are scheduled for an update 2/18 for HDR (4200 and 6200)

Ive run both spears and munsil discs thru the Samsung and it seems to do a good job with everything.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by movielover1069

I have no idea how to do that. By trying the different HDMI settings on the Samsung player, have I messed anything up? Hopefully not. After awhile I just gave up and put it on Auto. Also, no idea what clipping is. Btw, I really appreciate your help with this ������

If you have a calibration disc, you can check your brightness and contrast settings, if you don't have a disc then it's worth checking out your Disney BDs (or THX ones) to see if there's a mini-guide on there, you want the screen like the example below:



If your player is clipping the blacks then you won't be able to see the shadow behind the THX logo (on the test, don't use the picture as a guide I'm not sure how accurate it is!). The guide will go into detail, but basically you want to be able to see the shadow and the 8 and 9 boxes (I think it's just the last two), then dial down the brightness until they're invisible. There'll be a similar thing with contrast settings.

It worth keeping an eye out for reviews of 4K calibrations discs to start you off (even if you plan to get a professional calibration later on). Don't worry about the settings to much, it's early days yet and a lot of people seem to be having niggles. In a couple of weeks I'd imagine everything will be a lot more clear.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

None of them do because HDMI 1.4 didn't have 4:2:0 transmission in the spec, this was rectified for HDMI 2.0 (as said above).

I was pretty sure (99.99%) it wasn't supported!