The differences of Blu-ray vs. HD DVD

[SpikesBluBlooded]

I've done my own research, but as I have tried to explain in the past and been corrected (and rightly so, no need to pass on misinformation), would anyone of you more experienced/knowledgable posters please spell it out exactly WHY blu-ray is better than HD DVD? I think it will be helpful to those visiting the site for the first time, as well as those on the fence about which way to go. I think we all know about the memory advantages, but what else beyond that sets Blu apart from HD DUD?

Oh, and one more thing, let's keep this thread clean, no need to post to it if you're not directly answering the question at hand. Not to be snobby, but this should be a fairly quick-and-easy read for newcomers and not have to dig through pages and pages of non-related posts. Thanks in advance for the help!

[BStecke]

The short?

Capacity, bandwidth, and support.

The biggest argument from the HD-DVD guys against this is that "nobody takes advantage of the disc space." Which is untrue, as evidenced by both the Pirates movies, and Casino Royale, to name a few. All three discs feature reference quality transfers coupled with uncompressed audio. This is impossible to do on HD-DVD, but not only because of the limits of disc space, although that is a factor. HD-DVD is incapable, due to its bandwidth limitations, to pass a signal that is equal to any of these three movies. They simply don't have the space in the pipeline to pump that much information.

Many will say that HD-DVD is poor quality because they use VC-1 for their video compression. This isn't exactly true, as there are some good quality HD-DVD ports on Blu-ray that are VC-1 (300). Could these look better? Sure, which is the exact point of frustration for many Blu-ray owners, because we kind of get the "good enough" versions of HD-DVD's from neutral studios (not plural anymore). Again, HD-DVD at its best will not be as good as Blu-ray at its best. It's a technical fact.

For right now, HD-DVD does have the leg up as far as interactivity goes, which is a point in the red corner: finalized specs. Blu-ray is still evolving, which to me is a good thing. Even though this may mean that people who want to take advantage of the newest and finalized standards of features have to buy new players, many of those people would fall into the early adopter category, and they understand that this may happen from the beginning. Plus, many early adopters aren't exactly hurting for cash. However, Blu-ray will eventually be able to do anything HD-DVD can do, while still offering the better high definition experience. Yes, that kind of sucks that Blu-ray isn't finalized, but many people don't care about the interactivity or extra bells and whistles. To me, it's more important that the high definition presentation of the film took precedent over the add-ons.

That should be a good starting piont . . . studio support you can figure out on your own

[Slapper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray

There's a nice little table about 2/3 of the way down that page with side-by-side comparisons of Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.

[Branden]

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by Branden

Nice!

[SS316SRV]

Originally Posted by Branden

...(BIG USELESS PICTURE)...

Yeah not helping. This is a thread to explain to Joe 6-Pack, not people who understand those numbers (especially when there is nothing to relate them to). Blu-ray is a more flexible format. There are blu-ray camcorders. Blu-ray burner drives are available and more are being designed and released. There are possible storage applications with blu-ray that HD DVD cannot match. Blu-ray is not a finalized format. It has room to grow and adapt to future technologies. This is one of the best parts of the technology (contrary to what the HD DVD fans think) because it will continue to be relevant for years and years to come.

HD DVD is primarily a movie format. That is where its purpose is. It was never meant to be used in other realms like storage. Blu-ray can go into almost any department of technology from software, music, movies, video games, digital camcorders, and computers.

[Branden]

geez, its just a picture. but you're right, J6P won't understand it. i assumed he's not J6P.

as much as we tout blu-ray's advantages, hd-dvd fanboys are quick to claim they're unnecessary and unused. the point of the picture, even if only some people understand it, is that blu-ray's higher bitrate is an actual advantage, not just a theoretical one.

[CptGreedle]

[CptGreedle]

I should explain with this that the .1mm thick protection layer on the BD is the same kind of protection that DVD uses. The DVD protection layer is IDENTICAL to the protection on an HD-DVD in thickness and structure. However, the .5mm thick Hard Coating on the BD is brand new technology that gives the Blu-ray a BETTER protection than the .6mm of the HD-DVD and DVD. It is only on the BD! Means finger prints and scratches won't make the discs skip or not play at all.
Also, the NA is just the amount of data in a given space, this is just a technical way of saying.. it holds more data in the same size disc.
the track pitch is related to this also showing that the space between the data is closer together.
BD-j is still due to come out this year.

Also there are more manufactures making Blu-ray and Blu-ray products, such as BD players and discs. There are also more exclusive studios. It also has better sales which shows the world wide and national trend toward Blu-ray, making it more likely to outlive HD-DVD. It is also the format used for all PS3 games. It also has more titles out.
It is overall more popular among consumers, and has the majority of the HD market. www.eproductwars.com/dvd

[sj001]

Originally Posted by Branden

What movie is this from by the way? WOW!

[Gio]

i like this chart granted its a few months old

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9740033-1.html

[Branden]

Originally Posted by sj001

What movie is this from by the way? WOW!

it was PoTC 2 about half hour in.

[Gio]

I don’t particularly like how it was worded

My third point of my argument is all about support. Firstly studio support, yes the Paramount/DreamWorks shift to support HD DVD exclusively did hurt Blu Ray but the majority of studios still support Blu, with only Warner the one major neutral studio supporting both. However there are rumblings that Universal (a HD DVD only studio) will become neutral sometime in 2008. As it stands the studio support is as follows:

Blu Ray: Disney, Fox, Warner, Sony, Lionsgate and MGM
HD DVD: Universal, DreamWorks, Paramount and Warner

Its just Universal

Or you can rephrase Sony to Sony, Columbia, Tri-Star, Screen Jems Etc. Etc. Etc.

Makes it sound like they have more support than they really do LOL

[Gio]

I look at it more Like This

http://blog.pixelperfectproductions.com/?p=54

[SpikesBluBlooded]

Wow, guys, thanks! It's really nice to see that you're still out here looking at what's being posted in the "Newbies" section. Just goes to show that the support is here, and that you can get the answers to your questions. Thank you BStecke, Slapper, CptGreedle, VenomXR8, and Gio for your input.

Now I have a request for the Mods: Anyway to lock this in to stay at the top of the first page in the "Newbie" forum? I think for most of us, this is the A#1 question, as well as for those still undecided.

Thank you all again, especially for keeping it simple and easy-to-understand.

[Robmx]

Originally Posted by Branden

Perfect.... Picture is worth more then a thousand words !

[VenomXR8]

Ive posted this recently buy for the benifit of the original poster of this thread, here it is again, the reasons why Blu ray is better than HD DVD

First, the specs of both formats:

Blu-ray
Storage capacity 25GB (single-layer)
50GB (dual-layer)
Laser wavelength 405nm (blue laser)
Numerical aperture (NA) 0.85
Disc diameter 120mm
Disc thickness 1.2mm
Protection layer 0.1mm
Hard coating Yes
Track pitch 0.32µm
Data transfer rate data 36.0Mbps (1x)
Data transfer rate (video/audio) 54.0Mbps (1.5x)
Video resolution (max) 1920×1080 (1080p)
Video bit rate (max) 40.0Mbps
Video codecs MPEG-2
MPEG-4 AVC
SMPTE VC-1
Audio codecs Linear PCM
Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby TrueHD
DTS Digital Surround
DTS-HD
Interactivity BD-J

HD DVD
Storage capacity 15GB (single-layer)
30GB (dual-layer)
Laser wavelength 405nm (blue laser)
Numerical aperture (NA) 0.65
Disc diameter 120mm
Disc thickness 1.2mm
Protection layer 0.6mm
Hard coating No
Track pitch 0.40µm
Data transfer rate data 36.55Mbps (1x)
Data transfer rate (video/audio) 36.55Mbps (1.5x)
Video resolution (max) 1920×1080 (1080p)
Video bit rate (max) 28.0Mbps
Video codecs MPEG-2
MPEG-4 AVC
SMPTE VC-1
Audio codecs Linear PCM
Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby TrueHD
DTS Digital Surround
DTS-HD
Interactivity HDi


As you can see Blu Ray Discs can hold more storage capacity and can transfer video/audio data at a higher rate then HD DVD resulting in the ability for studio’s to release their movies on Blu Ray with higher quality video and audio than the HD-DVD format. Some examples of HD DVD’s storage capacity and bitrates hampering the format can be seen in the upcoming releases of Transformers and Shrek 3. These two movies which are going to be the two biggest on HD DVD for some time don’t feature lossless (or Hi Def) audio. Now when I purchase a so called “hi def” movie, I as a consumer expect to get what I spent my hard earned dollars for, a “hi def” movie, as in hi definition video AND AUDIO and HD DVD cannot provide it. Now you may have heard reports that the HD DVD camp has developed a 51 GB disc that may “solve” this problem but unfortunately even these discs WILL NOT improve the video/audio transfer rate and also there are reports that they won’t work on a first gen HD DVD player so therefore are not worth factoring into the equation. On the other side, Hitachi has in development, a 100 GB Blu Ray disc that has been reported to only need a firmware update to be compatible in current blu ray players. Storage space also becomes a factor for the home video enthusiast; with new Blu Ray PC Burners now available (and with more on the way) consumers can create their own HD movies in the comfort of home.

My next point is in regards to price. HD DVD supporters continue to bring this up as one of the main reasons to support their format. Basically the cheapest stand alone HD DVD player currently can only output in 1080i, while that’s good compared to standard DVD, it just isn’t full HD (1080p). With the prices of Blu Ray players falling and the newly announced 40 GB PS3 soon to hit the market the price gap is shortening. Another point to remember is that the price of movies are generally a few dollars less on Blu Ray than on HD DVD, so think of the player as your car, you only by one every few years whereas the movies are the fuel that runs your car, now we all buy fuel on a regular basis and its nice to get it at a cheaper price than the guy next door. Also take into consideration your own personal setup at home, you spent big dollars on your HDTV and your sound system, surely it seems reasonable that your new next gen movie player is priced relative to your setup. To use the car analogy again, you wouldn’t put a Toyota engine in a Ferrari body.

My third point of my argument is all about support. Firstly studio support, yes the Paramount/DreamWorks shift to support HD DVD exclusively did hurt Blu Ray but the majority of studios still support Blu, with only Warner the one major neutral studio supporting both. However there are rumblings that Universal (a HD DVD only studio) will become neutral sometime in 2008. As it stands the studio support is as follows:

Blu Ray: Disney, Fox, Warner, Sony, Lionsgate and MGM
HD DVD: Universal, DreamWorks, Paramount and Warner

Also in regards to support, Blu Ray doesn’t just have the edge in movie studio support, it also has the edge in hardware support, Blu-ray is currently supported by more than 180 of the world's leading consumer electronics, personal computer, recording media, video game and music companies which means there are a lot of models of blu ray players for the consumers to choose from, with company’s such as Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, Philips, and Sharp all developing Blu Ray players while HD DVD only has Toshiba (and Toshiba derived) players and the Xbox 360 add on drive. Consumer electronics are all about choice but HD DVD doesn’t offer that. It’s more like a monopoly.

I feel I also must touch on one of the arguments that HD DVD supporters bring up again and again and that is the fact that Blu Ray specs are not “finalized” Basically at the moment, Blu Ray players do not have the ability YET to display picture in picture or allow web based content whereas HD DVD can. My response to this is that it is coming and it looks like it will be available with a simple firmware update. Also it seems that consumers don’t really hold pip high in their HD wants. A good example of this is the movie 300 which had pip on the HD DVD release but not on Blu Ray yet the Blu Ray copy out sold the HD DVD version 2 to 1. Also, if I was a HD DVD fan I would be pretty upset that my chosen format was losing to an UNFINISHED format, god help HD DVD when Blu Ray’s specs are finalized.

My last point is in regards to the sales ratio of Blu Ray to HD DVD. Basically HD DVD is dead everywhere except in the United States. In Asia the ratio is around 96/04 in favor of Blu Ray, in Europe there was a recent report of a 4 to 1 ratio in favor of Blu and Australia is also around the 90/10 in favor of Blu. Only in the United States to the numbers get a little closer with Blu Ray winning every week in sales this year (see Nielsen/VideoScan weekly sales numbers) by around 65/35. So if the world has chosen Blu it’s only a matter of time before Blu Ray becomes the new HD Format Standard. You may not see it in your own backyards but you got to look at the big picture (I know the movie studios sure do) And with Huge releases coming up this holidays for Blu Ray (such as the Spiderman Trilogy, Pirates 3, Ratatouille and Cars to name a few) the sales ratio is just going to grow.

Thats Why Blu is Better than Red
Peace out!

[Grif32]

Originally Posted by VenomXR8

Ive posted this recently buy for the benifit of the original poster of this thread, here it is again, the reasons why Blu ray is better than HD DVD

First, the specs of both formats:

Blu-ray
Storage capacity 25GB (single-layer)
50GB (dual-layer)
Laser wavelength 405nm (blue laser)
Numerical aperture (NA) 0.85
Disc diameter 120mm
Disc thickness 1.2mm
Protection layer 0.1mm
Hard coating Yes
Track pitch 0.32µm
Data transfer rate data 36.0Mbps (1x)
Data transfer rate (video/audio) 54.0Mbps (1.5x)
Video resolution (max) 1920×1080 (1080p)
Video bit rate (max) 40.0Mbps
Video codecs MPEG-2
MPEG-4 AVC
SMPTE VC-1
Audio codecs Linear PCM
Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby TrueHD
DTS Digital Surround
DTS-HD
Interactivity BD-J

HD DVD
Storage capacity 15GB (single-layer)
30GB (dual-layer)
Laser wavelength 405nm (blue laser)
Numerical aperture (NA) 0.65
Disc diameter 120mm
Disc thickness 1.2mm
Protection layer 0.6mm
Hard coating No
Track pitch 0.40µm
Data transfer rate data 36.55Mbps (1x)
Data transfer rate (video/audio) 36.55Mbps (1.5x)
Video resolution (max) 1920×1080 (1080p)
Video bit rate (max) 28.0Mbps
Video codecs MPEG-2
MPEG-4 AVC
SMPTE VC-1
Audio codecs Linear PCM
Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby TrueHD
DTS Digital Surround
DTS-HD
Interactivity HDi


As you can see Blu Ray Discs can hold more storage capacity and can transfer video/audio data at a higher rate then HD DVD resulting in the ability for studio’s to release their movies on Blu Ray with higher quality video and audio than the HD-DVD format. Some examples of HD DVD’s storage capacity and bitrates hampering the format can be seen in the upcoming releases of Transformers and Shrek 3. These two movies which are going to be the two biggest on HD DVD for some time don’t feature lossless (or Hi Def) audio. Now when I purchase a so called “hi def” movie, I as a consumer expect to get what I spent my hard earned dollars for, a “hi def” movie, as in hi definition video AND AUDIO and HD DVD cannot provide it. Now you may have heard reports that the HD DVD camp has developed a 51 GB disc that may “solve” this problem but unfortunately even these discs WILL NOT improve the video/audio transfer rate and also there are reports that they won’t work on a first gen HD DVD player so therefore are not worth factoring into the equation. On the other side, Hitachi has in development, a 100 GB Blu Ray disc that has been reported to only need a firmware update to be compatible in current blu ray players. Storage space also becomes a factor for the home video enthusiast; with new Blu Ray PC Burners now available (and with more on the way) consumers can create their own HD movies in the comfort of home.

My next point is in regards to price. HD DVD supporters continue to bring this up as one of the main reasons to support their format. Basically the cheapest stand alone HD DVD player currently can only output in 1080i, while that’s good compared to standard DVD, it just isn’t full HD (1080p). With the prices of Blu Ray players falling and the newly announced 40 GB PS3 soon to hit the market the price gap is shortening. Another point to remember is that the price of movies are generally a few dollars less on Blu Ray than on HD DVD, so think of the player as your car, you only by one every few years whereas the movies are the fuel that runs your car, now we all buy fuel on a regular basis and its nice to get it at a cheaper price than the guy next door. Also take into consideration your own personal setup at home, you spent big dollars on your HDTV and your sound system, surely it seems reasonable that your new next gen movie player is priced relative to your setup. To use the car analogy again, you wouldn’t put a Toyota engine in a Ferrari body.

My third point of my argument is all about support. Firstly studio support, yes the Paramount/DreamWorks shift to support HD DVD exclusively did hurt Blu Ray but the majority of studios still support Blu, with only Warner the one major neutral studio supporting both. However there are rumblings that Universal (a HD DVD only studio) will become neutral sometime in 2008. As it stands the studio support is as follows:

Blu Ray: Disney, Fox, Warner, Sony, Lionsgate and MGM
HD DVD: Universal, DreamWorks, Paramount and Warner

Also in regards to support, Blu Ray doesn’t just have the edge in movie studio support, it also has the edge in hardware support, Blu-ray is currently supported by more than 180 of the world's leading consumer electronics, personal computer, recording media, video game and music companies which means there are a lot of models of blu ray players for the consumers to choose from, with company’s such as Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, Philips, and Sharp all developing Blu Ray players while HD DVD only has Toshiba (and Toshiba derived) players and the Xbox 360 add on drive. Consumer electronics are all about choice but HD DVD doesn’t offer that. It’s more like a monopoly.

I feel I also must touch on one of the arguments that HD DVD supporters bring up again and again and that is the fact that Blu Ray specs are not “finalized” Basically at the moment, Blu Ray players do not have the ability YET to display picture in picture or allow web based content whereas HD DVD can. My response to this is that it is coming and it looks like it will be available with a simple firmware update. Also it seems that consumers don’t really hold pip high in their HD wants. A good example of this is the movie 300 which had pip on the HD DVD release but not on Blu Ray yet the Blu Ray copy out sold the HD DVD version 2 to 1. Also, if I was a HD DVD fan I would be pretty upset that my chosen format was losing to an UNFINISHED format, god help HD DVD when Blu Ray’s specs are finalized.

My last point is in regards to the sales ratio of Blu Ray to HD DVD. Basically HD DVD is dead everywhere except in the United States. In Asia the ratio is around 96/04 in favor of Blu Ray, in Europe there was a recent report of a 4 to 1 ratio in favor of Blu and Australia is also around the 90/10 in favor of Blu. Only in the United States to the numbers get a little closer with Blu Ray winning every week in sales this year (see Nielsen/VideoScan weekly sales numbers) by around 65/35. So if the world has chosen Blu it’s only a matter of time before Blu Ray becomes the new HD Format Standard. You may not see it in your own backyards but you got to look at the big picture (I know the movie studios sure do) And with Huge releases coming up this holidays for Blu Ray (such as the Spiderman Trilogy, Pirates 3, Ratatouille and Cars to name a few) the sales ratio is just going to grow.

Thats Why Blu is Better than Red
Peace out!

Great post.

One thing. You will NOT see a difference from 1080I/1080P if your TV deinteralces 1080P correctly. So thats really a non point.

But still a great post. Very well put together.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by Grif32

One thing. You will NOT see a difference from 1080I/1080P if your TV deinteralces 1080P correctly. So thats really a non point.

Which most tv don't do properly, so it is a point because the consumer has be be aware of this so they are informed enought to buy a tv that does this correctly.

[itsfatboy]

Originally Posted by Grif32

Great post.

One thing. You will NOT see a difference from 1080I/1080P if your TV deinteralces 1080P correctly. So thats really a non point.

But still a great post. Very well put together.

I still think that unless BR comes down to HD-DVD pricing on the players, J6P is gonna choose the cheaper player. Just a few minor manufacturers that offer players for $200 will solve it.

Yea, BR is better but if J6P can get 'almost as good' for a lot less, he/she will.

You can buy a DVD player for $59 at Best buy, or you can buy one for $1000 at your favourite stereo emporium.
Believe me, there's nothing you can tell J6P (or me for that matter) that will convince him/her
that they are better served buying the $1000 player. Face it, they both plays DVD's on the TV.

Of course, as early adopters. we're all hopeful this format wins....
but J6P is fickle and he/she will vote with their dollars.

Right now, for the price of a BR player, they can get a Toshiba entry level HD-DVD player, with 5 free movies
AND they will have enought $ left over to buy another 6-7 movies and still have a few $ left over for a Starbucks..
Thats pretty powerful stuff !


Let not forget that everyone downplayed the sh|tty grafx of the Wii and said there's no way it could compete in the Xbox360/PS3 world.
But compete it does, rather effectively.