Prometheus Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Zillamon51]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

I have said so many times before simply this films merits are evident in its ability to still generate conversation 10 years on. I have seen such hyperbolic talk from this who dislike it but it's simple, you just don't talk this much about bad movies a decade later. The film is not perfect, but it is better than a lot give it credit for and the criticisms are just tedious at this point.

It's not surprising. The film is part of a popular franchise. Like Halloween and The Terminator, it's a franchise that's built on some legit iconic films, that are not only well-liked, but respected. And Halloween: Resurrection and Terminator: Dark Fate are still discussed whenever those series are brought up.

Originally Posted by wonderer99

And I will still maintain that the backburster scene in Covenant sits alongside the best scenes of any Alien movie.

It's a slight variation on what we've seen before. The scene that follows, with a clutzy crewmember trying to fight the little gremlin, slipping on blood multiple times, and ultimately destroying the ship, is hands-down the most hilarious. All it's missing is the Benny Hill music.

Originally Posted by DR Herbert West

Black goo is completely alien to me. The queen just makes me think of bugs.

Black goo is as basic as you can get. Not pumpkin spice basic, like vanilla basic. And all of the wildly different effects it has, shows that no real thought went into it. It's just a plot convenience dressed up as a mystery. Something the writer, Damon Lindeloff, is known for.

Originally Posted by DR Herbert West

It seems like they were always made for a purpose. Pretty convenient that the facehuggers fit perfectly on a human head.

What are David's little ones for? Infants? People's pets? And would their spawn grow into regular-sized aliens, or dwarf ones?

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

How so? What’s the interesting part of the black goo?



Well, not really drones but as Hudson says….like ants. Remember Ash’s great speech about the Alien in the first film? No delusions of morality. Unclouded by conscience? It’s a single purpose organism. That’s scary too, IMO. It beats "oh we made some molasses in a lab and out pops an alien". What was the body builders end game anyways? What was their objective? Just make them because they can? That’s never explored at all. Military?

I’d have to disagree hard here. Just watched Alien and Aliens over the last two nights and it’s hard to find a better one two punch. Perfect ending. The series is at its peak here, IMO. Goes way south thereafter.



Correct. The space goo just means the alien is a science project. Is that really interesting to people? I didn’t think so.



Yes, the film was sort of marketed as a prequel to Alien. Perhaps that was the problem. They should have NOT bothered with that final scene where we see an early stage Xenomorph pop out. It ended up being "cool fan service" but actually ends up not mattering at all in the grand scheme of the film or it’s plot. If Ridley wanted to just explore mankind’s origins then he should have just done that. Dump the space jockey and ship scenes so there is NO tie in to the original films. Have it unrelated. Might have worked better.



Why can’t criticisms still be discussed years later? Should it just be a "back patting" session? The praise is just as tedious but that’s fine. Doesn’t hurt anything. Hyperbolic? How so? The criticisms are pretty legit and it isn’t like just a few people bring them up. I don’t dislike it. I just found it disappointing as to what I was expecting and what I had to work with via the first two classic films.

That's true, I remember thinking "Oh, this is a prequel" but not sure of how far back it went, not paying attention to the date at the start of the film when the space ship is shown.

The Xenmorph that pops out of the chest of the Engineer was an early version I think, but not the final version of the Xenomorph Aliens, but more than fan service, was a clear path of how the black tar transforms towards forming new monsters, which was the theme of Covenant with David.

As far as the origins, Shaw found the skull of the Engineer, which she said was a match for human DNA, revealing that Ridley Scott was definitely leaning in that direction from a scientific view anyway with his Alien storyline. But DNA matches don't always mean much since DNA can be very close to varied species, so it's not conclusive that the Engineers created humans as Ridley is suggesting.

The Engineer that Elizabeth Shaw met, was disgusted by humans and looked at them like lab rats; which was interesting.

Also interesting was the introduction Engineer Humanoid, who sacrificed his life to drink the black living slime, then merge his corrupted DNA into the planet's water for other animals to ingest, as was discovered in the cave with the snakes.

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by Zillamon51

Black goo is as basic as you can get. Not pumpkin spice basic, like vanilla basic. And all of the wildly different effects it has, shows that no real thought went into it. It's just a plot convenience dressed up as a mystery. Something the writer, Damon Lindeloff, is known for.

Okay.

What are David's little ones for? Infants? People's pets? And would their spawn grow into regular-sized aliens, or dwarf ones?

Are you talking about the embryos at the end? They would become regular facehuggers.

[bobbyh64]

Maybe no one created the xenomorphs. Maybe they already existed and the Engineers were experimenting with their DNA and the black goo to create hybrids like the Deacon.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by DR Herbert West

Fingers crossed for a boxset.

A boxset would feel incomplete without Scott’s third prequel.

Ranking time!

1. Alien
2. Aliens
3. Alien 3
4. Prometheus
5. Alien: Covenant
6. Alien: Resurrection
7. Alien vs. Predator
8. Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Maybe no one created the xenomorphs. Maybe they already existed and the Engineers were experimenting with their DNA and the black goo to create hybrids like the Deacon.

That's what I've always thought.

Prometheus doesn't dispel that notion - the Deacon mural suggests the Engineers might even have worshipped it. The big white aliens seem to be full of themselves, not unlike us humans, creating monuments in their own likeness. I doubt they'd create a mural for some lab experiments of theirs.

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

A boxset would feel incomplete without Scott’s third prequel.

True.

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

That's what I've always thought.

Prometheus doesn't dispel that notion - the Deacon mural suggests the Engineers might even have worshipped it. The big white aliens seem to be full of themselves, not unlike us humans, creating monuments in their own likeness. I doubt they'd create a mural for some lab experiments of theirs.

[Show spoiler]

That's an amazing idea. I can only imagine what a prequel to Prometheus that focuses on the engineers without any humans would look like.

[bobbyh64]

It royally sucks that there probably won’t be a third Alien prequel. It feels so incomplete to not have a conclusion. It would be like a planned Star Wars trilogy not having a third film to conclude its story.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

That's true, I remember thinking "Oh, this is a prequel" but not sure of how far back it went, not paying attention to the date at the start of the film when the space ship is shown.

The Xenmorph that pops out of the chest of the Engineer was an early version I think, but not the final version of the Xenomorph Aliens, but more than fan service, was a clear path of how the black tar transforms towards forming new monsters, which was the theme of Covenant with David.

As far as the origins, Shaw found the skull of the Engineer, which she said was a match for human DNA, revealing that Ridley Scott was definitely leaning in that direction from a scientific view anyway with his Alien storyline. But DNA matches don't always mean much since DNA can be very close to varied species, so it's not conclusive that the Engineers created humans as Ridley is suggesting.

The Engineer that Elizabeth Shaw met, was disgusted by humans and looked at them like lab rats; which was interesting.

Also interesting was the introduction Engineer Humanoid, who sacrificed his life to drink the black living slime, then merge his corrupted DNA into the planet's water for other animals to ingest, as was discovered in the cave with the snakes.

I still have to ask: what was the point of creating the Xenomorph? How good of a military weapon would it be? They don’t listen. They have limited intelligence. They aren’t going to follow orders. Is the plan to start dropping eggs at various locations behind enemy lines and "hope" it goes unchecked and the aliens take over? Even if that ridiculous idea were to fly…..then what? Go in, kill all the Xenomorphs and clean up the mess? Huh?

I understand that Ripley mentions this too in the first film about them "wanting the aliens for the weapons division". It was a tough idea to wrap your head around then too. But to go through what the body builder guys did seems like an awful lot of @#$&*' around when a bomb works fine. Something like that. Hence, the idea that the alien is just a lab experiment is hard to accept and doesn’t make a lot of sense. Why make dangerous organisms that are as likely to destroy you as your opponent?

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Maybe no one created the xenomorphs. Maybe they already existed and the Engineers were experimenting with their DNA and the black goo to create hybrids like the Deacon.

Not bad and I like that better than straight space goo.

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

A boxset would feel incomplete without Scott’s third prequel.

Ranking time!

1. Alien
2. Aliens
3. Alien 3
4. Prometheus
5. Alien: Covenant
6. Alien: Resurrection
7. Alien vs. Predator
8. Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem

Box set? I wouldn’t need a large box for that set. Just two movies is all. .

Seriously though, I can’t imagine they’d do it but maybe. I’m sure it will screw over the large number of us that really only want Aliens in 4K to complete our collection per se for this franchise since the only way to get Aliens in 4K will be to buy the entire box set. No way I’d ever do that though. Alien and Prometheus are already out in 4K. Those are the only others I’d want myself. I already have Alien in 4K but have Prometheus in standard Blu-ray & 3D. I need to upgrade that to 4K here too.

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

It royally sucks that there probably won’t be a third Alien prequel. It feels so incomplete to not have a conclusion. It would be like a planned Star Wars trilogy not having a third film to conclude its story.

Does it really need one though? Even if you do consider covenant important enough to watch(I don’t), it can end there. You know what happens, right? Body builder guy crash lands on LV426, Weyland orders the Nostromo to investigate, so on and so forth.

What would happen after the events of covenant? If a sequel to that film didn’t end with some concept of a queen Xenomorph then it wouldn’t work anyways.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Does it really need one though? Even if you do consider covenant important enough to watch(I don’t), it can end there. You know what happens, right? Body builder guy crash lands on LV426, Weyland orders the Nostromo to investigate, so on and so forth.

What would happen after the events of covenant? If a sequel to that film didn’t end with some concept of a queen Xenomorph then it wouldn’t work anyways.

Covenant ends on a pretty big cliffhanger so it would be nice to see the conclusion. There could be a war between David and the Engineers and we could learn more about what the Engineers were doing. I don’t think you’d necessarily need to know about the queen aliens yet. As long as we see some eggs that’s enough.

I just wish we could get a third prequel that had some of the philosophical elements of Prometheus. I didn’t really like Covenant that much since it basically ignored what was interesting about Prometheus and was more about showing the xenomorph since people on social media wanted to see them. Scott even admits this in this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2C...ature=youtu.be

He also seems to suggest that the xenomorph as we know it comes from the deacon. Although I like the idea better that no one created the xenomorphs and the Engineers discovered them and tried to harvest them for whatever reason. Ultimately I prefer the space jockeys to be a mystery, but I was pretty intrigued by the ideas in Prometheus so it would be nice to finish the prequel story by exploring and answering some of the questions set up in Prometheus.

[DR Herbert West]

Hopefully we'll get a few prequel nuggets in the TV series.

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

I still have to ask: what was the point of creating the Xenomorph? How good of a military weapon would it be? They don’t listen. They have limited intelligence. They aren’t going to follow orders. Is the plan to start dropping eggs at various locations behind enemy lines and "hope" it goes unchecked and the aliens take over? Even if that ridiculous idea were to fly…..then what? Go in, kill all the Xenomorphs and clean up the mess? Huh?

I understand that Ripley mentions this too in the first film about them "wanting the aliens for the weapons division". It was a tough idea to wrap your head around then too. But to go through what the body builder guys did seems like an awful lot of @#$&*' around when a bomb works fine. Something like that. Hence, the idea that the alien is just a lab experiment is hard to accept and doesn’t make a lot of sense. Why make dangerous organisms that are as likely to destroy you as your opponent?

[Show spoiler]

Not bad and I like that better than straight space goo.



Box set? I wouldn’t need a large box for that set. Just two movies is all. .

Seriously though, I can’t imagine they’d do it but maybe. I’m sure it will screw over the large number of us that really only want Aliens in 4K to complete our collection per se for this franchise since the only way to get Aliens in 4K will be to buy the entire box set. No way I’d ever do that though. Alien and Prometheus are already out in 4K. Those are the only others I’d want myself. I already have Alien in 4K but have Prometheus in standard Blu-ray & 3D. I need to upgrade that to 4K here too.



Does it really need one though? Even if you do consider covenant important enough to watch(I don’t), it can end there. You know what happens, right? Body builder guy crash lands on LV426, Weyland orders the Nostromo to investigate, so on and so forth.

What would happen after the events of covenant? If a sequel to that film didn’t end with some concept of a queen Xenomorph then it wouldn’t work anyways.

Good question. I believe it falls into the realm of Avengers Age of Ultron. You have the smartest AI Intelligence ever created, and instead of just accessing the nuclear blast silos, the AI decides to find a way to dig up an entire city, lift it into the air, and then drop it like a meteor. By that point, it goes from "What's the easiest way to destroy them" to "What's the more difficult way to destroy them that will take a lot more time?"

[bobbyh64]

If we’re going to ask why the Engineers don’t just use bombs to destroy a planet, then we also have to ask why they’re willing to sacrifice themselves in order to spread the virus/mutagen goo mixed with their DNA. There has to be sone religious component to all this. The sacrifices, the mural… It all must mean something!

[unberechenbar]

The facehuggers seem like a step backwards from the backbursters if you're using them for war, in my opinion. Why go to all that trouble to infect one person when you could use spores to take out an entire population? I guess maybe they only happened by accident but still, it seems like they would be more useful to David for taking out planets, which is what he seems to want to do. Maybe he also has some spores or black liquid stored in his body.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Good question. I believe it falls into the realm of Avengers Age of Ultron. You have the smartest AI Intelligence ever created, and instead of just accessing the nuclear blast silos, the AI decides to find a way to dig up an entire city, lift it into the air, and then drop it like a meteor. By that point, it goes from "What's the easiest way to destroy them" to "What's the more difficult way to destroy them that will take a lot more time?"

That’s what I mean. As Bobby mentions below too, why not just chuck some goo and DNA into the river versus a guy having to go through all that? What guy drew THAT straw? Sucks, lol.

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

If we’re going to ask why the Engineers don’t just use bombs to destroy a planet, then we also have to ask why they’re willing to sacrifice themselves in order to spread the virus/mutagen goo mixed with their DNA. There has to be sone religious component to all this. The sacrifices, the mural… It all must mean something!

Yeah, be nice to get some reasons behind like most of what we see in the movie. Just not enough. Why spread the goo? What is the objective? Destroy…..destroy what? Infect who or where? Mixing your DNA with goo does what exactly? See, this is where the film really struggles. We get very little motivational reasoning for anything.

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

The facehuggers seem like a step backwards from the backbursters if you're using them for war, in my opinion. Why go to all that trouble to infect one person when you could use spores to take out an entire population? I guess maybe they only happened by accident but still, it seems like they would be more useful to David for taking out planets, which is what he seems to want to do. Maybe he also has some spores or black liquid stored in his body.

Well, face hugger or back bursting still seems like an awful lot of work for unreliable results. So many more easier ways to destroy stuff. It’s almost ridiculous. And, why or how did David get so pissed off at like everything? Was he programmed that way? He’d have to be. So, another big fat "why" here. What’s Davids deal? Sure, some humans like Charlie are jerks but would that really trigger David to want to start taking out planets left and right?

What the hell is going on here? Ridley?

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Sure, some humans like Charlie are jerks but would that really trigger David to want to start taking out planets left and right?

Well, an Engineer did rip his head off.

[Evanos]

David's been treated like shit his entire life, even by his "father", Weyland. Which is why he's surprised by Shaw. She actually has some compassion for him, like he says in Covenant. "I'd never known such kindness. Certainly not from Mr Weyland, or any human."

His reason for creating the alien is pretty obvious to me. He's a rapey sexually repressed mad scientist AI, creating an organism that is essentially a violent perversion of human reproduction.. sounds about right. It ties back to the sexual undertones of the original film & Giger's works, and Ash's fascination with the creature.

[Zivouhr]

The spores were very effective, I agree. In Covenant.

The Humanoid Engineer who was tasked with drinking the living tar slime, drank it and perished, his DNA clearly merging with the Tar's in the opening credits, and after he drank it, only then did his mothership fly away to confirm it was done.

So I agree, he must have served as a guinea pig experiment and had to sacrifice his life for their purpose. They are an experimental group, and it does seem they have some kind of worship goal happening, creating these Xenomorphs on different planets to spread destruction as part of their goals.

I love the little worm that crawls out of the guy's eyeball in the mirror. And the scene where Shaw has to remove her "baby". That was intense.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

The spores were very effective, I agree. In Covenant.

The Humanoid Engineer who was tasked with drinking the living tar slime, drank it and perished, his DNA clearly merging with the Tar's in the opening credits, and after he drank it, only then did his mothership fly away to confirm it was done.

So I agree, he must have served as a guinea pig experiment and had to sacrifice his life for their purpose. They are an experimental group, and it does seem they have some kind of worship goal happening, creating these Xenomorphs on different planets to spread destruction as part of their goals.

I love the little worm that crawls out of the guy's eyeball in the mirror. And the scene where Shaw has to remove her "baby". That was intense.

The surgical scene in Prometheus is one of the best scenes in the Alien franchise. I vividly remember how I felt seeing that scene in theaters. Very intense and effective.