The Criterion Collection

[ShellBeacher]

Originally Posted by mande2013

Either way, I'm assuming the standalone blu-ray of In The Mood For Love with the old master will still remain in circulation. I was watching the new restoration on Mubi earlier today, and I guess the flatness I was noticing wasn't strictly due to streaming compression after all.

I wouldn't count on that. Some already report that they are disappearing off the market. And if the streaming versions all switch over, that will be the first clue. I wouldn't be surprised if Criterion let it slip out of print, and then reissue it later with WKW's new re-version. They'll want some Box Set sales, first...

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by ShellBeacher

I wouldn't count on that. Some already report that they are disappearing off the market. And if the streaming versions all switch over, that will be the first clue. I wouldn't be surprised if Criterion let it slip out of print, and then reissue it later with WKW's new re-version. They'll want some Box Set sales, first...

That would be contrary to anything Criterion has done in the past with their standalone items.

I guess they could change their OOP policy, but other than the items the license owner pulled from them (Merchant Ivory, S-C, and now Paramount) have they let any of their BD go OOP? I don't think anything from teh Bergman or Fellini boxset has suffered the fate or the smaller sets like Whit Stillman Trilogy or the GDT box

[Egbert Souse]

Originally Posted by jw007

I've been reading Dr. Svet Atanasov's reviews on this site of the World of Wong Kar Wai box set that was just released and have noticed the video quality on many of these releases are a mixed bag of encoding anomalies (I noticed the phrase "not convincing" a lot), with flattened imagery, unnatural hues, crushed nuances, density fluctuations, and in the case of one of the films (Fallen Angels) the aspect ratio was artificially widened from 1.85:1 to 2.35:1.

I'm hoping Criterion's high standard of quality isn't going down, and that this is just an isolated exception based on the director's artistic choices.

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

For a company that has for decades prided itself on using original aspect ratios and such, I wonder if maybe they should have refused WKW's new restoration ideas and not released this at all. He still would have been able to release the 4K discs through that other label. I'm not buying either of them.

There's always a possibility of individual releases that have both versions in the future, but I really doubt Criterion is going to burn bridges with a filmmaker. It's a tough decision, but while I'd prefer the original versions, at least these will be my first experiences with WKW's films outside of In the Mood for Love. A lot of people were also unhappy with the color timing on many of the Agnes Varda films, even though it's right there on each film that she (and the DoP in mant cases) supervised the color grading.

But it's silly to use this as a benchmark when they go out of their way to restore films to their original state overwhelmingly more than not.

[ShellBeacher]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

That would be contrary to anything Criterion has done in the past with their standalone items.

I guess they could change their OOP policy, but other than the items the license owner pulled from them (Merchant Ivory, S-C, and now Paramount) have they let any of their BD go OOP? I don't think anything from teh Bergman or Fellini boxset has suffered the fate or the smaller sets like Whit Stillman Trilogy or the GDT box

Well, I'd say that this is a unique case, just my gut feeling...the title won't technically be going out of print...they'll just re-press discs and change the version that's on there. That's still "an issue" as far as I'm concerned...but whatevs.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jw007

I've been reading Dr. Svet Atanasov's reviews on this site of the World of Wong Kar Wai box set that was just released and have noticed the video quality on many of these releases are a mixed bag of encoding anomalies (I noticed the phrase "not convincing" a lot), with flattened imagery, unnatural hues, crushed nuances, density fluctuations, and in the case of one of the films (Fallen Angels) the aspect ratio was artificially widened from 1.85:1 to 2.35:1.

I'm hoping Criterion's high standard of quality isn't going down, and that this is just an isolated exception based on the director's artistic choices.

It might also be an issue of Svet's views on color-grading. The aspect ratio thing on Fallen Angels was known from Criterion's original announcement of the set and discussed a fair amount here.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by shadowofdreams

Given that these changes have been present in the restorations for a few years, I have a feeling alot of this is WKW. Lee Klein did a discussion with Roger Deakins on his podcast, and from the sound of it they do the best they can but try and take as much input from the director as possible. Given that he brought up multiple situations in the podcast where they talked people down from drastic changes into more manageable ones, there is a distinct possibility that WKW wanted even more extreme changes and Criterion was the one trying to keep it from going that far.

Maybe WKW is the "George Lucas" of the indie film world with all these editing changes! J/K.

Originally Posted by Egbert Souse

There's always a possibility of individual releases that have both versions in the future, but I really doubt Criterion is going to burn bridges with a filmmaker. It's a tough decision, but while I'd prefer the original versions, at least these will be my first experiences with WKW's films outside of In the Mood for Love. A lot of people were also unhappy with the color timing on many of the Agnes Varda films, even though it's right there on each film that she (and the DoP in mant cases) supervised the color grading.

But it's silly to use this as a benchmark when they go out of their way to restore films to their original state overwhelmingly more than not.

I'm glad to have WKW's In the Mood for Love and Chungking Express as standalone Criterion blu-rays and may hold on to these indefinitely despite this glorious new box set that just came out, since those seem to be the original edits/transfers.

[Stormyyy]

I'm sure this has been covered a billion times but... can anyone tell me if the criterion release of Crash is up to par with the 4K release from the UK? Thanks

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by jw007

I've been reading Dr. Svet Atanasov's reviews on this site of the World of Wong Kar Wai box set that was just released and have noticed the video quality on many of these releases are a mixed bag of encoding anomalies (I noticed the phrase "not convincing" a lot), with flattened imagery, unnatural hues, crushed nuances, density fluctuations...

I'm hoping Criterion's high standard of quality isn't going down, and that this is just an isolated exception based on the director's artistic choices.

Those same expressions are also used on their release of Memories of Murder. Again in this case, the cause seems attributable to a director/DoP supervised master.
Some have speculated that an improper shift from the original HDR graded 4k master to the SDR color space of 1080p blu-ray may have resulted in some of these issues, but there's no hard evidence as yet.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Stormyyy

I'm sure this has been covered a billion times but... can anyone tell me if the criterion release of Crash is up to par with the 4K release from the UK? Thanks

They are based on the same master, so the basic qualities would be similar, although of course the 4K UHD from Arrow will be superior based on the increased resolution and HDR alone, even putting aside who did a better encoding job.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

For a company that has for decades prided itself on using original aspect ratios and such, I wonder if maybe they should have refused WKW's new restoration ideas and not released this at all. He still would have been able to release the 4K discs through that other label. I'm not buying either of them.

They seem willing to stray from that policy when the filmmakers wants to make changes. Brazil, The Last Emperor and Mishima come to mind.

[mmarczi]

Criterion basically always defers to the director on the final say of their releases when working directly with them (or whomever they might be working directly with on a project) unless it's something major they're strongly opposed to and can convince the director/etc. otherwise. I personally think it's a fine and fair policy, but I understand that and why others disagree.

[Cinematt]

I couldn’t care less if a filmmaker wants to tinker with their own movie and produce a new version, but as always I care if they don’t make both versions available. When you’ve fallen in love with a movie and seen it many many times it’s so disappointing to then find every new release isn’t the same movie anymore.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by ShellBeacher

I wouldn't count on that. Some already report that they are disappearing off the market. And if the streaming versions all switch over, that will be the first clue. I wouldn't be surprised if Criterion let it slip out of print, and then reissue it later with WKW's new re-version. They'll want some Box Set sales, first...

Well they never rereleased Cries and Whispers by itself with the boxset master, so...we'll see. Likewise The Seventh Seal.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

They seem willing to stray from that policy when the filmmakers wants to make changes. Brazil, The Last Emperor and Mishima come to mind.

I'm not sure Criterion would want to burn a bridge with someone like Wong Kar Wai.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by mmarczi

Criterion basically always defers to the director on the final say of their releases when working directly with them (or whomever they might be working directly with on a project) unless it's something major they're strongly opposed to and can convince the director/etc. otherwise. I personally think it's a fine and fair policy, but I understand that and why others disagree.

What a shame they couldn't have worked with the ghost of Don Siegel to correct the wrong aspect ratio on their release of RIOT IN CELL BLOCK 11.

[mande2013]

The Leopard is also plagued by aspect ratio controversies. Which presentation is more accurate, the Pathé or the Criterion?

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by mande2013

The Leopard is also plagued by aspect ratio controversies. Which presentation is more accurate, the Pathé or the Criterion?

I looked into this a little bit a couple of years ago. Obviously not definitive, but I could find no immediate evidence that the film was ever framed for exhibition at 2.55:1.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...stcount=184988

[blacktrinary]

Right now you can put your order in for Harold and Maude at Amazon for $39.95. Better than paying scalper price!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[DaBargainHunta]

Expiring from The Criterion Channel - The Foul King (2000)



The Foul King is about a young banker whose stern boss thinks nothing of using pro wrestling moves - headlocks and chokeholds - to keep him in line. I want to work at this bank!!!

From there, the main character goes to a wrestling school so he can learn how to defend himself against his boss. It both helps and hurts his cause that he's already a passionate wrestling fan. (Eagle-eyed viewers will notice wrestling references sprinkled throughout the film - I spotted a drawing of Hulk Hogan and Doink the Clown in the background of one scene.) He's given the character of The Foul King - a masked wrestler whose only "technique" is to cheat like hell and use a fork to slice and dice his opponents. The wrestling scenes are surprisingly credible for the most part, with only a couple of exaggerated exceptions for comedic or dramatic effect.

The Foul King ends up being a fun, funny, feel-good underdog "sports" movie about a bullied young man trying to stand up for himself and find his purpose in his life. I adored it.

DaBargainHunta's Decree: Between this and Save the Green Planet! (also expiring), South Korea has been responsible for two of the best movies I've seen in recent months.

[yoloswegmaster420]

On today's introduction for Pépé le Moko by Eddie Muller on TCM, he revealed that Criterion had performed a new digital restoration. Possible upgrade coming soon?