The Criterion Collection

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by mande2013

James Bond films included? I’d say the first three 3 Connery films along with perhaps OHMSS are the Bond films Criterion could get away with releasing without sacrificing any of their cultural capital.

I forgot about them. As much as I would love to see that one, Bond is the only title I am 100% sure will never get a Criterion release again. We literally have a better chance of London After Midnight getting a Criterion release.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Ikari

This is annoying Don't think it's enough to warrant a replacement from Amazon but still...

Half of the copies of After Hours were stupid like that. B&N had 5 in stock, 3 looked like that, and I got one of the normal two. I’d assume they had more discs of other titles that fit that packaging design somewhere else. While it would seem petty to Amazon (who regularly take box cutters to movies like da Vinci took a paintbrush to a canvas), it matters to us. Sorry this happened to you.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Surge92

I think all these great 4K titles that Criterion is all of a sudden releasing with a vengeance are a big middle finger to all of us that complained for years about their stubborn refusal to go 4K for the longest time.

Best revenge I’ve ever seen.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by mande2013

Just out of curiosity, why are so many people hankering for Criterion 4Ks of mainstream films that already have strong releases like Goodfellas, 2001, and Pulp Fiction? Does Criterion really need to become the North American equivalent of The Film Vault? It just feels decadent to me. At least Days of Heaven and Mean Streets are new-to-4K titles.

2001 is OOP, Goodfellas is OOP and has notoriously bad DV/HDR (which was done without Scorsese’s involvement, he only did the scan, restoration, and SDR grade), and Pulp Fiction will most likely go OOP very soon. While PF and 2001 were perfect discs, Goodfellas was terrible. Criterion, with Scorsese and Schoonmaker’s involvement, would fix it.

Besides, 2001 and PF were two of the laserdiscs back in the day, and people want them to come back.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Ishai

Some of the wishlist items for Criterion are odd to me as well, but the first one you listed, Goodfellas, apparently has a bad transfer and it OOP.

A Criterion release for these movies would mean more extras as well, probably.

Some people also ignore releases from other labels completely and think if it's not Criterion it doesn't exist.

I agree, wishing for a release of a movie that got a 4K release in the last year makes no sense. Why would the studio and Criterion want to fight for sales on the same title when there are so many other options that don't have a 4K? but a lot of people don't make sense...

The Last Picture Show

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Probably is the key word there. Criterion has releases like THE INNOCENTS whose lack of substantial extras is insulting. INDICATOR has taken over the throne of offering packed and excellent extras nowadays.

Eh what? The Jack Clayton movie? It had an absorbing feature commentary and substantial (~half hour) introduction from Christopher Frayling (yes, licensed from the previous BFI release), and two new shorter pieces focused on Freddie Francis, the DoP, adding to another half hour. Hardly what I'd call insulting. I've only retained my BFI blu with its dated geometrically skewed master for the Clayton short film The Bespoke Overcoat, which is a neat little ghostly tale.

What would you have liked in terms of more extras for this release?

[Shane Rollins]

Svet,

By now the Tod Browning set is somewhere between being pressed at the least and sitting in your to-review stack at the most. While I’m admittedly not that familiar with The Unknown and The Mystic, I happen to know quite a bit about Freaks and its elements, so before you chop the disc, the Criterion team, the team at WB, and anyone else, let me explain to you exactly what Criterion was dealing with when they took this project on.

The negative for Freaks does not survive, nor do any intermediary elements (if they even existed). Even a fine grain positive or safety elements were not known to exist. All that is known to exist of Freaks are somewhere between two and five 35mm theatrical prints, each running somewhere in the 59- to 60-minute range. They each had one of two shorter versions of the ending. The complete final scene only survives on one 16mm print, which looks noticeably worse than the 35mm footage. The sound is okay at best, but obviously suffers due to both its age and the elements.

There have been three prior home video releases of Freaks, each one plagued with issues. The 2004 DVD used both the 35mm and 16mm prints, but had various picture and sound issues. A 1993 laserdisc was listed as “remastered”, but I haven’t seen that and can’t opine on its quality either way. (I welcome one of my fellow users to jump in here with their review of that LD.) A “restored and remastered” 1986 release on tape and laserdisc looks and sounds awful. It appears to be sourced primarily from the 16mm print, and the pitch is adjusted for no apparent reason.

Maybe a better source has been found, and my message here would be for nothing. However, if in fact the elements mess hasn’t changed, I just thought you should know the situation Criterion had on their hands before you chop their people down over the quality of Freaks.

[Areyakiddin]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

The Last Picture Show

I think both Criterion and Sony's intention was that Sony's boxset would be sold out by the time Criterion did their own release. In other words, Sony's version would be OOP, like most of the movies in the past boxsets, therefore no competition between the two versions.

Hard to say if it will end up actually happen that way though, Volume 3 is not selling out as fast as the past two volumes (can probably blame it on a certain red haired moppet).

[Ishai]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

The Last Picture Show

One year old box set

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Are you thinking oft The Uninvited by Lewis Allen? The Blu for that has an MSRP as $30. The Innocents has an MSRP of $40, the standard price for Blu-Rays. Letter Never Sent is another one that’s at the lower price point.

Are you thinking of another post and not the one you quoted from me? I didn't say anything about the price point of THE INNOCENTS, just that it lacked substantial extras. I know it's not one of the lesser priced ones with few bonus features. There are four extras included, but they are repetitive and not very interesting except for the study of Freddie Francis. The film itself looks exceptional though and that's the main thing. I just get tired of Criterion being praised for their voluminous extras when I think they are no longer the standard bearers for such.

[Trekkie313]

Sure, Pulp Fiction and 2001 are going OOP. Two very popular films that changed cinema...

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Eh what? The Jack Clayton movie? It had an absorbing feature commentary and substantial (~half hour) introduction from Christopher Frayling (yes, licensed from the previous BFI release), and two new shorter pieces focused on Freddie Francis, the DoP, adding to another half hour. Hardly what I'd call insulting. I've only retained my BFI blu with its dated geometrically skewed master for the Clayton short film The Bespoke Overcoat, which is a neat little ghostly tale.

What would you have liked in terms of more extras for this release?

I had a bad run in working with Frayling years ago so my opinion of him in general is not very high. Otherwise, I find a lot of Criterion extras to be dull single shot talking heads all pretty much saying the same things. I would much rather have visual essays or short films like the one you saved the BFI Blu for. I would have also liked to see more information on Jack Clayton and why he disappeared from making films for so long, plus his aborted attempt to shoot Ray Bradbury's SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES, where he was treated like dirt.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by mande2013

Just out of curiosity, why are so many people hankering for Criterion 4Ks of mainstream films that already have strong releases like Goodfellas, 2001, and Pulp Fiction?

Because if Criterion could market used toilet paper with that big C on it and a number, people would want it and never question why.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Because if Criterion could market used toilet paper with that big C on it and a number, people would want it and never question why.

You mean Arrow.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

You mean Arrow.

The word "Arrow" doesn't belong anywhere near the subject of toilet paper.

[mande2013]

I don’t think the 2001 4K is at all OOP, and if we must have a boutique release to supplement an already serviceable catalog 4K disc of Goodfellas, I’d rather it come from Arrow personally. Also, how do we know Goodfellas being OOP isn’t just a sign WB are planning to rerelease it themselves?

[randian]

What evidence is there that Pulp Fiction 4k is going OOP? It isn't even a year old yet.

[Ishai]

Originally Posted by mande2013

I don’t think the 2001 4K is at all OOP, and if we must have a boutique release to supplement an already serviceable catalog 4K disc of Goodfellas, I’d rather it come from Arrow personally. Also, how do we know Goodfellas being OOP isn’t just a sign WB are planning to rerelease it themselves?

Goodfellas has been OOP for a couple of years now. I hoped they'd do a new release for their 100th anniversary, it could still happen but that year is almost up.

[Ishai]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

2001 is OOP, Goodfellas is OOP and has notoriously bad DV/HDR (which was done without Scorsese’s involvement, he only did the scan, restoration, and SDR grade), and Pulp Fiction will most likely go OOP very soon. While PF and 2001 were perfect discs, Goodfellas was terrible. Criterion, with Scorsese and Schoonmaker’s involvement, would fix it.

Besides, 2001 and PF were two of the laserdiscs back in the day, and people want them to come back.

Pulp Fiction is going OOP? where did you get that from?
I don't see Paramount licensing the one Tarantino movie they have left to a boutique label less than a year after releasing it themselves when they still have lots of stock on shelves in retail stores

[Shane Rollins]

The evidence of them going OOP is the studios are making less and less of them and just thinking that they won’t sell. Then they sell out really quick (90% of them go to the scalpers), and then they just don’t press anymore. 2001 is a five-year-old disc, and the last time I can verify it was pressed was in 2020. Goodfellas hasn’t been pressed since 2016. PF is recent, but they probably just pressed a certain amount of units and called it a day. (Several hundred thousand-low millions) When they’re sold, if they’re not already, Paramount will just not press anymore. Then they go OOP, then they’re an arm and a leg online, and then they have to decide whether to release it again in six months with new packaging, in two years through a boutique, in another decade or so or when another anniversary rolls around, or not at all.

Unless Hollywood finally got it, PF is already OOP, but they just haven’t run out of copies yet.