The Criterion Collection

[OceanBlue]

Out of the latest batch of Criterion US title announcements, am interested in getting Nothing But a Man (have never heard of the film before, but a couple of the names I've heard of (Ivan Dixon (among their directing credits are several episodes of the original Magnum, P.I.) and Julius Harris (know them best from Live and Let Die and the original The Taking of Pelham One Two Three) and The Roaring Twenties.

[stvn1974]

Picked up The Others, After Hours, Raging Bull and Videodrome on UHD, I am done for this sale due to being poor, broke, strapped and busted.

[traths]

My Criterion wish list for 2024 is for a 4K release of Spellbound, Notorious, and Rebecca. I never got the Notorious or Rebecca blu-rays because I still have the bare bones MGM discs. Spellbound never got a blu-ray upgrade in the collection.

[CandymanHappyman]

The reason we have seen such a great number of Hong Kong films finally being released on Blu-ray and 4K is that L'Immagine Ritrovata opened a office in Hong Kong in 2015.

Before that, there was no such dedicated lab or restoration house in Hong Kong. You had to rely on local film processing labs with ancient telecine machines, all of which are now closed. And flying an OCN or other original elements out of the country is the last thing you ever want to risk doing. Film is fragile, easy to damage, easy to lose or even steal.

In 2017, L'Immagine Ritrovata started restoring some Bollywood films. But unfortunately Bollywood movies are notorious when it comes to the condition of elements. In India, they kept on striking prints off of the original OCN for decades after that practice was done away with in the US and Europe. This means that finding usable elements for even fairly recent movies from the 80s and 90s can be highly problematic. The extreme heat and humidity in the region can also be murder on film.

Kodak introduced Eastmancolor in 1950. Indian filmmakers noticed how quickly this film stock faded by the mid to late 50s. It took American filmmakers until the 1970s to notice this same color lose. Basically, the same color film started to fade 15 to 20 years earlier in India than it did in the US. That's how much of a difference temperature, humidity and proper storage make in the ultimate survival of film elements. India also continued to use nitrate film for years after that stock was replaced in the US and Europe in 1951. Indian studios bought all the ovestock at a discount from foreign labs and studios that were trying to get rid of this highly flammable film stock.

The other issue is that Bollywood films have never made inroads with US or European audiences the way movies from countries like Japan, Hong Kong or even Iran have been able to do. The only exception has been arthouse fare, like the films of Satyajit Ray. Financially, this makes it very difficult to justify releasing these films in the west.

I've talked at length about Japanese films and licensing before. Toho is notorious for being almost impossible to deal with. The other studios may be better, but that doesn't always mean that it is that much easier.

• For one thing, Japanese studios as a whole still think it's 2002, amidst the incredible DVD boon where even obscure titles could sell tens of thousands of copies. So they generally will ask for much higher licensing fees. There are always exceptions to this rule, but we're talking about the general picture of the Japanese film licensing market.
• Then there is the issue of competition. A Japanese studio can sell a Blu-ray of a Japanese film in Japan for the equivalent of $50 to $70 US dollars. If that same film is available with the same transfer in the US or Europe for $25 to $30, then that means that Japanese collectors can skip the local release and import the discs for half the cost. To stop this, Japanese studios will hold onto their new transfers for years while only offering very old and dated transfers to companies like Criterion. They will also make sure not to include English subtitles or audio tracks on their homegrown Japanese releases. They don't want us importing these films either. They want someone in the US to pay that hefty licensing fee and release the old transfer. This was much more acceptable in the days of DVD where many releases were sourced from VHS era masters. But today, as the physical media market has shrunk dramatically, the customer base that is left is the most demanding and critical collector imaginable. Releasing a 15 year old "HD" master simply will not cut it.
• Then there is the fact that many of the most recognizable Japanese films, like Godzilla and Seven Samurai (both 1954) have already been released. The remaining films are for the most part very niche. Again, it is much harder to justify the high licensing cost, simply to release an old transfer of a movie that few people have an interest in buying.
• Criterion may have old "home video" rights to hundreds of Japanese films. But they don't own these films. And they can only release the old masters that are provided to them and they certainly can't "sublicense" these titles to another home video label. That puts them between a rock and a hard place. They can either wait until they are granted new transfers at a reasonable price by the licensor, thus upsetting a small group of people who are tired of waiting. Or they can release old tired masters of these films and piss off the entire collector community, who is now used to getting fresh beautiful harvests of the most obscure American and European films.

[bebop wino]

Originally Posted by Smegma

World's Greatest Sinner

Please Criterion make this happen,my top wanted title on blu-ray.If I´m not mistaken,Timothy Carey´s son Romeo Carey controls the rights.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

Tales of the Four Seasons for me! Almost makes up for the lack of P&P. The Tale of Summer in my Potemkine box is faulty so I've been waiting for someone to release the set

At this point, the lack of P&P is a crime against humanity. Aside from the 4K of The Red Shoes about two years ago, I can't even remember the last time one of their films dropped from Criterion.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by BarnDoor

The primary WB list is down to just 3 films:

Captain Blood
O Lucky Man!
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid

But then there's a secondary list of potential Criterion candidates (based on WA DVD reissues), which appears to include:

The 7th Victim (to add to the long-standing I Walked With A Zombie rumour)
Gummo
The Lusty Men
Petulia
Scaramouche
The Year of Living Dangerously

I Am A Fugitive From A Chain Gang was also touted based on a Mervyn LeRoy phantom page.

Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Doesn't mean it's true either. Toho is only one Japanese company that Criterion deals with. Let that simmer for a moment, one. Nikkatsu is one of the most accessible companies to deal with, yet Criterion hasn't released a single new to HD of one of the dozens upon dozens of the films they hold the licenses to with Nikkatsu.

Also, what do you mean Criterion puts out a fraction to MOST boutique labels? Can you back that up with some evidence? Maybe Kino and Shout, but that's not most. Criterion has one, if not the largest distribution channel of any of the boutique labels in the world as well.

Japan had its fair share in the DVD era, but not so much anymore. The last time Criterion released a new to HD Japanese film was in October 2022. The fact that they have about 300 Japanese films that don't have HD releases, well, that kind of proves my point.

Also, don't forget that there's at least 100 films in the "we will never ever ever release these on Blu-ray" Eclipse line, and while the Eclipse films are slowly making the jump after all, I can't name one Japanese film from those sets, even Nikkatsu, that made the jump.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

Kino and Shout are the only ones that matter in this particular discussion; they are Criterion’s main competitors. Criterion does not have a quantity business model. And what they have the rights to is irrelevant.

Look, we all want them to be focusing on something in our interests. Hell, they spent DECADES basically ignoring black voices, and I’m sorry if they don’t reflect your particular interests often enough, but there are whole swaths of deserving filmmakers that never got any representation in the collection in its ENTIRE HISTORY. There’s still not a Bollywood film! There are more Japanese films in the collection than silent films, or pre-code films. Putting out just six or seven films a month with the odd box, frankly, it’s almost absurd how *overrepresented* Japanese films are in the collection compared to other important kinds of films. And that’s not even counting the individual films in the Zatoichi and Godzilla and Lone Wolf boxes.

Somewhat true. They did release Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song on laserdisc in 1997.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by CandymanHappyman

The only exception has been arthouse fare, like the films of Satyajit Ray. Financially, this makes it very difficult to justify releasing these films in the west.

Even Indian arthouse fare for most western audiences begins and ends with Ray (and how many of them explored beyond the Apu trilogy and Charulata?). The Indian New Wave of the 70's is almost entirely ignored - Shyam Benegal, Mrinal Sen, Kumar Shahani, Mani Kaul - how many of their films have had decent international releases?

[Shane Rollins]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by CandymanHappyman

The reason we have seen such a great number of Hong Kong films finally being released on Blu-ray and 4K is that L'Immagine Ritrovata opened a office in Hong Kong in 2015.

Before that, there was no such dedicated lab or restoration house in Hong Kong. You had to rely on local film processing labs with ancient telecine machines, all of which are now closed. And flying an OCN or other original elements out of the country is the last thing you ever want to risk doing. Film is fragile, easy to damage, easy to lose or even steal.

In 2017, L'Immagine Ritrovata started restoring some Bollywood films. But unfortunately Bollywood movies are notorious when it comes to the condition of elements. In India, they kept on striking prints off of the original OCN for decades after that practice was done away with in the US and Europe. This means that finding usable elements for even fairly recent movies from the 80s and 90s can be highly problematic. The extreme heat and humidity in the region can also be murder on film.

Kodak introduced Eastmancolor in 1950. Indian filmmakers noticed how quickly this film stock faded by the mid to late 50s. It took American filmmakers until the 1970s to notice this same color lose. Basically, the same color film started to fade 15 to 20 years earlier in India than it did in the US. That's how much of a difference temperature, humidity and proper storage make in the ultimate survival of film elements. India also continued to use nitrate film for years after that stock was replaced in the US and Europe in 1951. Indian studios bought all the ovestock at a discount from foreign labs and studios that were trying to get rid of this highly flammable film stock.

The other issue is that Bollywood films have never made inroads with US or European audiences the way movies from countries like Japan, Hong Kong or even Iran have been able to do. The only exception has been arthouse fare, like the films of Satyajit Ray. Financially, this makes it very difficult to justify releasing these films in the west.

I've talked at length about Japanese films and licensing before. Toho is notorious for being almost impossible to deal with. The other studios may be better, but that doesn't always mean that it is that much easier.

• For one thing, Japanese studios as a whole still think it's 2002, amidst the incredible DVD boon where even obscure titles could sell tens of thousands of copies. So they generally will ask for much higher licensing fees. There are always exceptions to this rule, but we're talking about the general picture of the Japanese film licensing market.
• Then there is the issue of competition. A Japanese studio can sell a Blu-ray of a Japanese film in Japan for the equivalent of $50 to $70 US dollars. If that same film is available with the same transfer in the US or Europe for $25 to $30, then that means that Japanese collectors can skip the local release and import the discs for half the cost. To stop this, Japanese studios will hold onto their new transfers for years while only offering very old and dated transfers to companies like Criterion. They will also make sure not to include English subtitles or audio tracks on their homegrown Japanese releases. They don't want us importing these films either. They want someone in the US to pay that hefty licensing fee and release the old transfer. This was much more acceptable in the days of DVD where many releases were sourced from VHS era masters. But today, as the physical media market has shrunk dramatically, the customer base that is left is the most demanding and critical collector imaginable. Releasing a 15 year old "HD" master simply will not cut it.
• Then there is the fact that many of the most recognizable Japanese films, like Godzilla and Seven Samurai (both 1954) have already been released. The remaining films are for the most part very niche. Again, it is much harder to justify the high licensing cost, simply to release an old transfer of a movie that few people have an interest in buying.
• Criterion may have old "home video" rights to hundreds of Japanese films. But they don't own these films. And they can only release the old masters that are provided to them and they certainly can't "sublicense" these titles to another home video label. That puts them between a rock and a hard place. They can either wait until they are granted new transfers at a reasonable price by the licensor, thus upsetting a small group of people who are tired of waiting. Or they can release old tired masters of these films and piss off the entire collector community, who is now used to getting fresh beautiful harvests of the most obscure American and European films.

Is the HK office of Ritrovata any better than the main one? I'm trying to figure out whether it's the company or the people.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

What a month. The Roaring Twenties getting a Dolby Vision 4K release is an expected surprise. Finally glad to see the Johnnie To double-feature, adn 4K to boot. Love the cover art for it, from one of my fav. artists (Alice X. Zhang).

Originally Posted by bergman864

Fantastic month. Nothing But a Man sounds exceptional. Happy to see The Roaring Twenties get a UHD release. Everything looks good. Also the Johnnie To double UHD.

Originally Posted by Chase540

Between January and this month, it looks like Criterion is finally getting through some of their known holdouts? Hopefully Captain Blood isn’t too far behind.

Originally Posted by speedracer5

Finally Criterion releases another Classic Hollywood title. Aside from "Freaks," there's been a bit of a dry spell.

I'll definitely be picking up "The Roaring Twenties."

Originally Posted by BarnDoor

The primary WB list is down to just 3 films:

Captain Blood
O Lucky Man!
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid

But then there's a secondary list of potential Criterion candidates (based on WA DVD reissues), which appears to include:

The 7th Victim (to add to the long-standing I Walked With A Zombie rumour)
Gummo
The Lusty Men
Petulia
Scaramouche
The Year of Living Dangerously

I Am A Fugitive From A Chain Gang was also touted based on a Mervyn LeRoy phantom page.

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

Alex Cox already hinted towards Pat Garrett (makes sense with Peckinpah and Dylan), but doesn’t Captain Blood have elements issues?

All of this makes me wonder, if Criterion does indeed give us the movies we want, will they do them on 4K? (For Pat Garrett, will they do all the cuts on both formats?)

Maybe if they do OLM on 4K, wil they also upgrade If.... to go along with it?

[logboy]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Either Japanese cinema post WW2-00s or French cinema from the early film era-present with stars such as Jean Gabin, Jean-Paul Belomondo, Lino Ventura, and Alain Delon not to mention many more.

i used to watch french films of the 80s and 90's when they sometimes aired on TV in the UK back then.

the new wave stuff, though i've looked at it, i don't get the tone or approach of. i like the look of melville, but was never certain of the discs that have made it out, enough to put money on them over other stuff.

if more modern french stuff had made it to dvd and blu-ray, i'd have probably focussed more on it.

fwiw, i still think that even those that do buy japanese films here in the west just don't realise how prolific the studios have been. there's little apparent appetite for hunting out names and championing unreleased stuff.

the biggest calls i hear for such films would be from those who get involved in the less legal routes to see things, and they're few and far between.

[hawkikwah]

Originally Posted by bebop wino

Please Criterion make this happen,my top wanted title on blu-ray.If I´m not mistaken,Timothy Carey´s son Romeo Carey controls the rights.

Saw a screening of this in the mid 2000s in a giant 1,200 seat house w his son in attendance. Bought the self distributed vhs he was selling off him there.

[bebop wino]

Originally Posted by bebop wino

Please Criterion make this happen,my top wanted title on blu-ray.If I´m not mistaken,Timothy Carey´s son Romeo Carey controls the rights.

Originally Posted by hawkikwah

Saw a screening of this in the mid 2000s in a giant 1,200 seat house w his son in attendance. Bought the self distributed vhs he was selling off him there.

That sounds really cool...If I remember correctly,back in the early 90´s he was advertising in Psychotronic magazine and selling World´s Greatest Sinner vhs tape for about 50 or 60 dollars.It´s currently only available on dvd-r,this bonkers classic needs to be on blu-ray!!

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by bebop wino

That sounds really cool...If I remember correctly,back in the early 90´s he was advertising in Psychotronic magazine and selling World´s Greatest Sinner vhs tape for about 50 or 60 dollars.It´s currently only available on dvd-r,this bonkers classic needs to be on blu-ray!!

Bonkers is the right word for it. I saw it a couple of times on TCM Underground (I really miss that time slot) and enjoyed it immensely.

[Smegma]

Originally Posted by BarnDoor

Gummo

I would *LOVE* GUMMO (1997 Harmony Korine) as well as HAPPINESS (1998 Todd Solondz) in 2024 too.
Crossing my fingers.

[Smegma]

Originally Posted by bebop wino

Please Criterion make this happen,my top wanted title on blu-ray.If I´m not mistaken,Timothy Carey´s son Romeo Carey controls the rights.

For what it's worth:

New York Times
Oct. 5, 2023
Two Cult Classics Restored and Brimming With Chaotic Life
Timothy Carey’s erratically brilliant “The World’s Greatest Sinner” and Emilio Fernández’s redemption melodrama “Victims of Sin” finally come to big screens.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/m...in-review.html

[dwk]

Regarding Indian films, Criterion has, at their own expense, restored four of Bimal Roy's films: Do Bigha Zameen, Bandini, Madhumati, and Devdas. I would expect these to come out in 2024 as they only have a 10 year license on the titles and they only have theatrical and disc rights. (Since this news actually came out in 2022, I expected these titles to come out sometime in 2023, but they obviously didn't.)

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by CandymanHappyman

[*]Criterion may have old "home video" rights to hundreds of Japanese films. But they don't own these films. And they can only release the old masters that are provided to them and they certainly can't "sublicense" these titles to another home video label. That puts them between a rock and a hard place. They can either wait until they are granted new transfers at a reasonable price by the licensor, thus upsetting a small group of people who are tired of waiting. Or they can release old tired masters of these films and piss off the entire collector community, who is now used to getting fresh beautiful harvests of the most obscure American and European films. [/LIST]

Many interesting points, but a lot of these old masters still look pretty good. I think most Japanese film fans would take an old master versus nothing at all at this point. I understand Toho, but Nikktasu and Shochiku are a lot more easy to deal with, and have pretty nice looking older masters. A lot of labels release older masters all day long, and if they look good to begin with, then I don't see the issue. If the older master is in a horrible state, then I understand, but if it's not...