The Criterion Collection

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

So I can't image they will have produced anything less than the best possible result. I'm sure the Gaumont restoration will look different, but I doubt it will be any better..

I don't know why you would doubt that because when Gaumont have gone in and done proper restorations - not remaster jobs - the final results have always been exceptional. French Cancan and Elena et les hommes are prime examples of outstanding restorations.

Pro-B

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I don't know why you would doubt that because when Gaumont have gone in and done proper restorations - not remaster jobs - the final results have always been exceptional. French Cancan and Elena et les hommes are prime examples of outstanding restorations.

Pro-B

I don't doubt that Gaumont will present something outstanding, but I don't see how it could be any better than what we're getting next month. MoC's Passion of Joan is definitely NOT a simple remaster. It is an independent restoration they have undertaken themselves, the first time they've ever done anything like this (as far as I know). It premiered in London last month. And Gaumont will be using the same source.

Previous releases have all been based on a restoration from the 80s.

[pro-bassoonist]

But I can.

I know what they did and I know who did it - this isn't exactly confidential information. However, trying to compare what Gaumont could produce, a company with a history and a record that rival and even overshadow those of many majors in the U.S., with what a boutique label like MOC could accomplish is the wrong comparison to have.

In other words, I could definitely see how Gaumont can produce something a lot better. They recently secured a pretty large line of credit specifically for restoration purposes, with support from the French government. With the proper funds, plenty can be accomplished.

All in all, I really don't see how you can speculate that a different restoration will "almost certainly be no better".

Pro-B

[captveg]

Originally Posted by EricJ

As for my perpetual hopes for Bergman's "The Magic Flute", I know that was made for Swedish television, but was shown theatrically in the US....Er, wasn't it?
(And although they use the later 50's Hal Roach sources for the otherwise-PD "WC Fields: 6 Short Films", that's on film too, isn't it, not syndicated video?)

The Magic Flute was shot on 16mm, so BD upgrade would be feasible, especially since it's an early Spine # and home video presentation have greatly improved since the DVD was released.

Pretty sure all the Fields shorts were 35mm, but I imagine their source materials vary greatly in quality.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

But I can.

I know what they did and I know who did it - this isn't exactly confidential information. However, trying to compare what Gaumont could produce, a company with a history and a record that rival and even overshadow those of many majors in the U.S., with what a boutique label like MOC could accomplish is the wrong comparison to have.

In other words, I could definitely see how Gaumont can produce something a lot better. They recently secured a pretty large line of credit specifically for restoration purposes, with support from the French government. With the proper funds, plenty can be accomplished.

All in all, I really don't see how you can speculate that a different restoration will "almost certainly be no better".

Pro-B

Truthfully I should defer to others as I hold no high end knowledge when it comes to film restoration or anything like that. But I'll clarify my way of thinking:

MoC have restored using the best available source. They have scanned at what most would consider the highest resolution necessary for a 1.37:1 black and white film.

Looking at the caps, there has been a phenomenal improvement in terms of damage removal. Not to mention typical improvements like contrast and detail.

Remember, the restoration Criterion used for the DVD also used the Oslo source. Yet, look at the difference in quality MoC has accomplished. Now obviously that is primarily to do with the fact a 2012 restoration is simply going to be much better than a restoration performed 25 years ago. But I think it's evidence that MoC is working on a pretty high end scale, delivering a pretty high end result.

MoC have stated themselves that to try to remove or fix any of the remaining print damage would result in the compromisation of the integrity of the film. Surely this indicates they pushed to the very limit of damage removal?

Maybe Gaumont can afford better "tools" to accomplish what MoC couldn't. But I imagine there must be an upper limit to what anyone can accomplish, regardless of investment. That goes for the more typical improvements made during restoration, not just damage removal. As great as the film is, it is 84 years old, black and white, 1.37:1, and consists primarily of closeups of human faces. I imagine restoring something like Ben-Hur or Lawrence of Arabia is an entirely different kettle of fish. And of course we don't really know how much funding MoC put into this venture anyway.

I guess I'm getting into suppositions now. You're right of course, there is no certainty the MoC release will be the best we'll ever see the film. But I'll still be pretty surprised if the Gaumont restoration is significantly better.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by captveg

Pretty sure all the Fields shorts were 35mm, but I imagine their source materials vary greatly in quality.

Like I said, these were the 50's Hal Roach reissues, where Hal pasted some music and sound effects onto the early talkies--
Not sure if those were for film reissue, or for TV distribution, but they were the best Criterion could find for the DVD.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

I guess I'm getting into suppositions now. You're right of course, there is no certainty the MoC release will be the best we'll ever see the film. But I'll still be pretty surprised if the Gaumont restoration is significantly better.

You definitely are, Eddie, but I respect your opinion

Let's just say that I am not a fan of dismissing someone's future work. See it, judge it, then express an opinion. I also dislike hyperbole.

On a side note, you should not trust every word producers offer to the public. Pathe's recent restoration of Children of Paradise is a prime example why - they provided various 'explanations' trying to 'explain' what are clearly digital anomalies with shooting techniques.

All in all, I am yet to see MOC's release, and I would like to offer an opinion only after I have seen it. As far as Gaumont are concerned, it is best to address their work/restoration when it is completed, not before

Pro-B

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by ccg1978

Can anyone else respond? *bump*

Modern Times
Pale Flower
The Four Feathers
Samurai Trilogy
Yojimbo/Sanjuro
Seven Samurai
Les Diaboliques
Jean Vigo

[EddieLarkin]

Quick B&N related question:

Do they do 50% off for Essential Art House titles as well? Been meaning to pick up the 3 or 4 films that were never Criterion spines, unlike the rest of the EAH series.

[Hawkguy]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Quick B&N related question:

Do they do 50% off for Essential Art House titles as well? Been meaning to pick up the 3 or 4 films that were never Criterion spines, unlike the rest of the EAH series.

Yes, they do.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

Yes, they do.

Thank you for the quick response! A couple more then:

When does the sale start and end?

Do they also reduce pre-order titles too? How about stuff that will be pre-order at the start of the sale, but will see its release date during the sale (Rashomon)?

[Darkcritic]

Question time ! If I generally love Japanese New Wave stuff, especially the radical/experimental ones like Oshima, would you recommend getting Pale Flower?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Darkcritic

Question time ! If I generally love Japanese New Wave stuff, especially the radical/experimental ones like Oshima, would you recommend getting Pale Flower?

If you have eyes, ears and a functioning cerebrum you should get Pale Flower.

Hell, if you have two out of three...

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Darkcritic

Question time ! If I generally love Japanese New Wave stuff, especially the radical/experimental ones like Oshima, would you recommend getting Pale Flower?

As someone who generally dislikes Japanese New Wave, and suffered through Pale Flower, it definitely should be on your to do list. Everything about it is grand, if you enjoy that sort of thing.

[orbital]

Originally Posted by JHas

I would recommend everything Italy12 listed, also, I can't recommend "Kiss Me Deadly" enough.

I don't know if you're into soundtracks but seeing your avatar, JHas, I cannot help but mentioning that the Queimada OST is being released this month.

Being very happy about it I had to post this. Sorry for OT.

[Norbie]

Just want to say that I like it how CC has released an English dub for Rashmon, they should do it more often with other non English spoken films. It doesn't need to be a high bitrate version either or just have it as special feature/extra.



be nice

[Norbie]

Originally Posted by Yami

I'll be surprised if Criterion include as many viewing options as MoC do or the 100 page booklet but they probably will have Voices of Light and perhaps some other extras.

And that's why the MoC version of Passion... Is not a easy buy for me. It's a fantastic release, but I would have like for it to have more on-disc extras such as documentaries and featurettes. So I will probably be waiting for the Criterion release, unless it also has a lack of on-disc extras.



be nice

[Yami]

Originally Posted by Norbie

And that's why the MoC version of Passion... Is not a easy buy for me. It's a fantastic release, but I would have like for it to have more on-disc extras such as documentaries and featurettes. So I will probably be waiting for the Criterion release, unless it also has a lack of on-disc extras.



be nice

I suspect that the booklet will be more informative than any on disc extras could be as, as far as I know, no Passion-specific documentaries exist and all (?) of the cast are now deceased. What I would like to see on the Criterion edition, and I'd certainly double dip if they were included, is Renee Falconetti's two previous films but I've been unable to determine whether or not they survive.

[JHas]

Originally Posted by orbital

I don't know if you're into soundtracks but seeing your avatar, JHas, I cannot help but mentioning that the Queimada OST is being released this month.

Being very happy about it I had to post this. Sorry for OT.

No problem being off topic on that one! I actually own a soundtrack of the film from Italy that I bought off Amazon a few years back. Who is releasing the one you speak of? I wonder if there is any difference to the one I own...?!??

[rkish]

Originally Posted by Norbie

Just want to say that I like it how CC has released an English dub for Rashmon, they should do it more often with other non English spoken films. It doesn't need to be a high bitrate version either or just have it as special feature/extra.



be nice

Guess I'm old fashoned, but I can't/don't watch dubs of foreign films. The rare exception is La Planete Sauvage (Fantastic Planet), but I think that is due to the fact that I first saw it in a US theater the year it was released and it had the English dub. I have to admit, they did a good job on it. It took me a while to get used to watching it in French.