The Criterion Collection

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by romuald121

It's on Amazon.ca for 155 CAD, the Indicator is out of stock everywhere unless you go to ebay https://www.amazon.ca/Dietrich-Stern...dp/B07C7J9VD2/

Think they meant the individual Indicator releases.

[romuald121]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Think they meant the individual Indicator releases.

Yeah nvm, I thought he was talking about the complete boxset, the movies inside the boxset have been reprinted

[romuald121]

Buyer beware though if you want to buy from Amazon.ca, especially for old titles in general, you might receive old damaged stock that might require several replacements in order to get 1 brand new. I had the misfortune to buy Paramount presents old titles from there and it was 3 replacements to get it decent at the end. The reason behind this, is that unlike Amazon.com, Amazon.ca overcharges for everything and rarely does any discounts so inventory sits there endlessly and gets damaged in the process

[lilboyblu]

Originally Posted by romuald121

It's on Amazon.ca for 155 CAD, the Indicator is out of stock everywhere unless you go to ebay https://www.amazon.ca/Dietrich-Stern...dp/B07C7J9VD2/

I'm in the US; haven't been able to order from Amazon.ca since before the pandemic.

Will hold out into 2024 a bit to see if Criterion restocks, otherwise I'll just pick up the Indicator titles.

Thanks for the input.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

I know there were a lot in Miller's Crossing, but they still added up to less than 2 minutes. The Blood Simple edits were made years ago and have been part of pretty much all prior releases as well. Regardless, I feel like this complaint is overblown a bit; the Miller's Crossing edits were done by the filmmakers themselves and are mostly very short/minor changes. That's a far cry from something being edited post-release by the studio, or even a director-approved reworking like the WKW set.

There's just a certain crowd that's violently opposed to any changes being made at all. But I think most people wouldn't even notice the differences, and certainly wouldn't discourage someone from purchasing.

Save me a few bucks, what happened with the WKW set?

While I’m admittedly pretty venomous about films where directors don’t know when to quit, I also grew up with films like Star Wars and The Exorcist where every time you turn around they’re being messed with again.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by jzbadblood

I've already opened and watched those three last sale. First time watches so I didn't notice the edits.

Is Thief not supposed to be cold looking? I thought that worked for the vibe of the film. My ignorance is showing.

Yes, originally it looked normal. Look at the Arrow Blu-ray and go to the bottom of the caps page. The top pictures are from the director’s cut (exact same thing that’s on the Criterion Blu), the bottom pictures are from the older theatrical cut transfer (allegedly the same transfer that was on the MGM DVD from ages ago. You’ll see the difference.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Egbert Souse

The clear 4-disc Blu case by Scanavo is what I was referring to.

The thick 2-disc Alpha cases were usually what Criterion used, just like Fox, Paramount, and Disney. They phased them out around the same time they rebranded in 2005-6, though The Life Aquatic was in a slim case.

On that subject, they used the rarer 3-disc Alpha only on The Leopard and Scenes from a Marriage, IIRC.

I’ve never seen that with Criterion. I’ve only seen the flimsy black case on Videodrome, various Scanovo packs (the 4-disc case you showed was the first one I’ve seen), and the many different Digipacks Criterion has used over the years, and there’s more ridiculous Digipacks and foldouts than you can shake a stick at. (All About Eve and Bruce Lee come instantly to mind.)

[NeoNical]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

Save me a few bucks, what happened with the WKW set?

While I’m admittedly pretty venomous about films where directors don’t know when to quit, I also grew up with films like Star Wars and The Exorcist where every time you turn around they’re being messed with again.

From what I remember (Feel free to correct any mistakes I made):

- All of the films have had some crazy alterations, some more severe than others. All of them now have a very interesting color grading with their respective 4K restorations in comparison to the previous releases. Everyone is going to have something to say about this. For most users, the color grading is what these restorations gets the most heat and trash talk from.

- One of the two major controversies was his most well-known work, In the Mood for Love. Comparing with the color grading of the previous Blu-ray and the Criterion DVDs, this new 4K restoration opts for a heavy yellow/greenish tint. If I recall correctly, Wong Kar-Wai thought of this change in color grading as a way to revisit the past in a new way. It's much like how someone can watch something of the past in B&W and then time travel back to that same moment now in color. Hope that analogy makes sense.

- Fallen Angels is the other major controversy and is the one that most people are going to shit on. The film has now cropped the original 1.85:1 AR to an extreme 2.35:1 AR. I shit you not, this was actually approved by WKW (Without Christopher Doyle's approval). Obviously the consequences of cropping image is that ruins the framing of the original film. Let this be an important lesson to all aspiring filmmakers that FRAMING AR MATTERS.

- Happy Together actually removes a short line of dialogue about halfway through the film as it is apparently forever lost and wasn't able to be retrieved for the new 4K restoration. However, this line of dialogue has made it in every other release. I believe this may be because of some fire that forever destroyed the negatives for this or that they lost it forever.

- Chungking Express has added more usages of The Mama & The Papas's "California Dreamin'" because WKW said WHY NOT?

- Outside of restoration, the Blu-ray's encoding isn't the strongest. Some compression artifacts have been noted by users and the site reviewer as well.

- Packaging isn't particularly convenient. I don't know how to describe the packaging on this set but you can look it up online. For some users, this packaging was fairly easy to rip and damage when opening it up. Like the Bruce Lee set, customers need to be extra careful in handling their discs and box sets in favor for a nicer, cooler set design. Stuff like this is why many customers have also decided to sell their own standard Blu-ray cases and artwork for the Godzilla Showa Era set (Which has been resurrected on home video subreddits quite recently).

The WKW set was one of the most anticipated sets of the year. To get one of the most influential filmmakers in the age of digital and social media with a new 4K restoration supervised by him was something that should've gone right. However, the restorations themselves approached many of their problems and revised many of the original artistic intentions of these films to the point they become completely new experiences. For many of the die-hard traditional fans, this would become a prime example of revisionism in home video.

Much like the green tint in The Matrix and the CGI additions in Star Wars (And now the DNR in American Graffiti), the WKW set includes many changes that many people see as worsening the original film's artistry. Stuff like this is why some film fans are beginning to doubt a director's approval on new restorations and favor preserving the original theatrical looks of the films they grew up with. Which we know is where the fan projects/restorations come into the equation.

Coming back to WKW, owning the older Blu-ray copies that have the older Blu-ray remasters for all of these films (Excluding in the Mood for Love) has ironically made their prices exponentially increase in the used market. Anyone who owns the older Kino Blu-rays of Happy Together and Fallen Angels can seriously make crazy ass money off of them now, which goes to show how much fans seriously preferred the older remaster compared to a brand new 4K restoration.

Edit: The good news is that Criterion Channel has definitely heard the complaints and have decided to include the older remasters on streaming for those who don't like the new ones.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

I know there were a lot in Miller's Crossing, but they still added up to less than 2 minutes. The Blood Simple edits were made years ago and have been part of pretty much all prior releases as well. Regardless, I feel like this complaint is overblown a bit; the Miller's Crossing edits were done by the filmmakers themselves and are mostly very short/minor changes. That's a far cry from something being edited post-release by the studio, or even a director-approved reworking like the WKW set.

There's just a certain crowd that's violently opposed to any changes being made at all. But I think most people wouldn't even notice the differences, and certainly wouldn't discourage someone from purchasing.

I don't think the impact of changes should be measured in terms of timing (you could remove the entire reference to "Rosebud" from Citizen Kane and hardly lose any running time). There's also the question, if they are so minor, why make them at all? They were requested to approve the transfer, not try and "improve" the film.

With Miller's Crossing, I would say there's a certain egregiousness that comes in because there was a previous blu-ray from Fox that contained the original cut. The Criterion edition came with no / negligible difference to the video for a disc that came more than a decade after its predecessor (so much so for seeking director approval), so there was no "sweetening of the deal" so to say, other than a bunch of interviews.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by ravenus

I don't think the impact of changes should be measured in terms of timing (you could remove the entire reference to "Rosebud" from Citizen Kane and hardly lose any running time). There's also the question, if they are so minor, why make them at all? They were requested to approve the transfer, not try and "improve" the film.

With Miller's Crossing, I would say there's a certain egregiousness that comes in because there was a previous blu-ray from Fox that contained the original cut. The Criterion edition came with no / negligible difference to the video for a disc that came more than a decade after its predecessor (so much so for seeking director approval), so there was no "sweetening of the deal" so to say, other than a bunch of interviews.

Don't disagree with any of this. But I'll stick by my original comment that the edits don't materially change or diminish the film in my opinion, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the CC edition. There were a lot of changes here (70+, I believe) but most of them were really minor - literally just a few frames removed or added on a particular shot. I think there were barely any that even affected dialogue, and certainly nothing at the level of your "Rosebud" example (which I recognize was hyperbole, and that you weren't trying to say that happened here).

I still feel that most people who dislike the changes are mainly opposed to the idea of filmmakers revisiting their works later. That's an opinion and they're entitled to have it - I just don't share it. Subsequent changes don't bother me unless they're so dramatic as to substantially change the film - again, I'll use the WKW example. And I think we can all agree that it's important for labels to inform buyers when they are getting a revised edit from prior versions.

[NeoNical]

Moonage Daydream 4K UHD selling on Amazon for $21.72 (~57% off) for those who are interested

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by zoodermin

What's your opinion on Bigger than Life? I'm considering blind-buying it because I'm a fan of Ray's other works like In A Lonely Place and Johnny Guitar.

It's a no hesitation buy since you enjoy those other films, imo.

Re: Johnny Guitar - Years ago I owned a shabby Olive release (not the signature release but the one before it) but still watched the disc a few times. Great film. It doesn't appear Olive is still releasing films? Would like to see this film get a UHD from someone because there is an available 4k scan.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

It's a no hesitation buy since you enjoy those other films, imo.

Re: Johnny Guitar - Years ago I owned a shabby Olive release (not the signature release but the one before it) but still watched the disc a few times. Great film. It doesn't appear Olive is still releasing films? Would like to see this film get a UHD from someone because there is an available 4k scan.

Yeah, Olive officially closed shop earlier this year (though they've essentially been defunct for years). If not from Paramount directly, Kino is the next likeliest to re-release Johnny Guitar I'd say.

[Cheesy Guy]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

Don't disagree with any of this. But I'll stick by my original comment that the edits don't materially change or diminish the film in my opinion, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the CC edition. There were a lot of changes here (70+, I believe) but most of them were really minor - literally just a few frames removed or added on a particular shot. I think there were barely any that even affected dialogue, and certainly nothing at the level of your "Rosebud" example (which I recognize was hyperbole, and that you weren't trying to say that happened here).

I still feel that most people who dislike the changes are mainly opposed to the idea of filmmakers revisiting their works later. That's an opinion and they're entitled to have it - I just don't share it. Subsequent changes don't bother me unless they're so dramatic as to substantially change the film - again, I'll use the WKW example. And I think we can all agree that it's important for labels to inform buyers when they are getting a revised edit from prior versions.

I have stronger feelings because it's one of my favorite movies. I think I actually would have been more excited if I had been informed this would be a new director cut because I'm not that strongly opposed to changes and newer versions when the original/theatrical cut is still available or included. These are the cons for me:

- At least two comedic scenes that I come to expect have been altered, with one literally losing its punchline. If this was The Big Lebowski and a favorite line was completely dropped, you'd probably notice too.

- Neither Criterion or the Coens announced this would be an entirely new cut of the film, nor was it even mentioned in the booklet or special features. Why keep it a secret, leaving fans to feel it's deceptive? Seems like if you went through all that effort you'd be proud to talk about it.

- The previous BD release was 11 years ago and Criterion's appears to use the exact same master. Scanning and restoration has improved exponentially in that period and Criterion has embraced 4K UHD as well. This could have been a definitive update that would encourage and warrant a double dip, but instead feels like we might have to wait another decade for it.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Cheesy Guy

I have stronger feelings because it's one of my favorite movies. I think I actually would have been more excited if I had been informed this would be a new director cut because I'm not that strongly opposed to changes and newer versions when the original/theatrical cut is still available or included. These are the cons for me:

- At least two comedic scenes that I come to expect have been altered, with one literally losing its punchline. If this was The Big Lebowski and a favorite line was completely dropped, you'd probably notice too.

- Neither Criterion or the Coens announced this would be an entirely new cut of the film, nor was it even mentioned in the booklet or special features. Why keep it a secret, leaving fans to feel it's deceptive? Seems like if you went through all that effort you'd be proud to talk about it.

- The previous BD release was 11 years ago and Criterion's appears to use the exact same master. Scanning and restoration has improved exponentially in that period and Criterion has embraced 4K UHD as well. This could have been a definitive update that would encourage and warrant a double dip, but instead feels like we might have to wait another decade for it.

Very fair criticisms, and agree 100% about CC's failure to disclose the changes. Thanks for the added background about the edits and the prior master. I still enjoyed the CC release, but admittedly hadn't seen the film for years so didn't have the same points of reference as you. Good discussion.

[Cheesy Guy]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

Very fair criticisms, and agree 100% about CC's failure to disclose the changes. Thanks for the added background about the edits and the prior master. I still enjoyed the CC release, but admittedly hadn't seen the film for years so didn't have the same points of reference as you. Good discussion.

After Criterion's release and there was much discussion, the only consolation was that the 2011 BD with the theatrical version was still in print and only about $10. A year later now, it looks like it might be out of print, so the original might not be available again.

[romuald121]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Yeah, Olive officially closed shop earlier this year (though they've essentially been defunct for years). If not from Paramount directly, Kino is the next likeliest to re-release Johnny Guitar I'd say.

There's a company called Sandpiper that is recycling some Olive
https://www.deepdiscount.com/search?...kId=4552331179

[BadBart]

Thanks romuald121. Link pops up as "Page not found". Will try to hunt down the info on their site still...

[Cheesy Guy]

Originally Posted by romuald121

There's a company called Sandpiper that is recycling some Olive blurays https://www.deepdiscount.com/sandpip...RTm-FvkmzOSUWS

Originally Posted by BadBart

Thanks romuald121. Link pops up as "Page not found". Will try to hunt down the info on their site still...

Sandpiper has been recycling more Twilight Time releases, not much Olive.

DeepDiscount

Blu-ray.com database

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by Cheesy Guy

Sandpiper has been recycling more Twilight Time releases, not much Olive.

DeepDiscount

Blu-ray.com database

They might be confused, because some people speculated that Sandpiper is people from Olive or Olive rebrand.