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Old 12-18-2023, 03:52 PM   #221921
gbm82 gbm82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
Don't be obtuse, dude, two of the five titles in a month for a label that is sitting on a massive backlog of titles are 2022 movies that would fit in VS's partner label lineup. I'm not hating on that, but Criterion isn't f**king Altered Innocence or Utopia Distribution or a small label like that, which I like a lot, but probably the top label in home video distribution sitting on a colossal backlog of priceless DVD-only titles.
Sure thing boomer
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Old 12-18-2023, 03:55 PM   #221922
mja345 mja345 is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Cinema View Post
Licensing for DVD, BD, and 4K UHD are each separate deals, and Criterion doesn't own anything. Unless Criterion has licensed the rights for all 3 of those formats, they're not sitting on anything or preventing other boutiques from licensing them. See Kino.
Right, but what a label chooses to put out each month is their own choice. Criterion puts out the least amount of titles per year of almost any label at this point, they're very choosy, so I found this last month's announcements incredibly underwhelming given what they have access to. Just my opinion.
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Old 12-18-2023, 03:55 PM   #221923
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Originally Posted by gbm82 View Post
Sure thing boomer
I'm f++king 36 years old, come up with a better response. It's like the 2023 equivalent of, "Cool story, bro".

Last edited by mja345; 12-18-2023 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:12 PM   #221924
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Meanwhile in the Kino Lorber thread I just read this post about mja345's return to the board:
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Originally Posted by trentdiesel View Post
You have been sorely missed, your reviews are always must read and an antidote to the complaining and shipping talk in all the major threads. Glad to hear you are doing well, welcome back.
So far, so good!
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:18 PM   #221925
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Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
Right, but what a label chooses to put out each month is their own choice.
Based on licensing, costs, restoration, availability of masters, special features, etc., sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
Criterion puts out the least amount of titles per year of almost any label at this point, they're very choosy, so I found this last month's announcements incredibly underwhelming given what they have access to. Just my opinion.
If they aren't able to license for BD or 4K because studios/rights holders aren't offering or it's too costly for them, they don't really have access to them, do they?
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:19 PM   #221926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
"The Devil and Daniel Webster" is one of the best films sitting in Criterion's DVD-only vault IMO, just a massive performance by Walter Huston and a wonderful film.

I have nothing against Criterion's slate this past month, but, I do have to say, some of the films feel like titles that would be released by Vinegar Syndrome's partner labels. Not bad films, but minimal if you're filling up a 5-film slate with a monster back-catalog of DVD-only titles under license. If Criterion wants to release a lot of contemporary titles, then they should license some of their DVD titles to other labels or pump up the output. There are just too many priceless DVD-only titles that Criterion really doesn't need to be d**king around with five physical titles per month at this point. You have the resources, go to 8-10, and then you can incorporate both newer titles and older films. Just my two cents.
Welcome back, and pretty much agree with everything you said. Criterion gives us a nice release every now and then, but 2023 was my least favorite year of Criterion releases. February 2024 was pretty good, but while that was a step forward, March was two steps backwards. I really wish they would either start releasing more titles a month, or sub license their titles out.
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:21 PM   #221927
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LOL jesus one post about a really shitty month from Criterion (it is, don't f__king pretend it's not lol) and I'm Mr. Complainer. I'll take the hits haha, just not a fan of labels that release 60 titles a year releasing titles that would get a release from VS's deepest partner labels, sue me.
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:23 PM   #221928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cinema View Post
Based on licensing, costs, restoration, availability of masters, special features, etc., sure.



If they aren't able to license for BD or 4K because studios/rights holders aren't offering or it's too costly for them, they don't really have access to them, do they?
LOL too costly for Criterion? They have major celebs in the closet every week. You think they have less resources than Kino, who have lapped them as a label?
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:39 PM   #221929
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Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
LOL too costly for Criterion? They have major celebs in the closet every week. You think they have less resources than Kino, who have lapped them as a label?
Let's try this again. What did you mean when you said "they should license some of their DVD titles to other labels or pump up the output"? They don't own the titles they've released on DVD, and unless there's solid evidence that they have licensed the BD or 4K rights to those titles, they're still up for anyone else to have at them, no? I'm not understanding how Criterion is to blame for other boutiques not licensing them either. It certainly hasn't stopped Kino at all.
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:40 PM   #221930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
I'm f++king 36 years old, come up with a better response. It's like the 2023 equivalent of, "Cool story, bro".
Cool story bro
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Old 12-18-2023, 04:47 PM   #221931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
LOL jesus one post about a really shitty month from Criterion (it is, don't f__king pretend it's not lol) and I'm Mr. Complainer. I'll take the hits haha, just not a fan of labels that release 60 titles a year releasing titles that would get a release from VS's deepest partner labels, sue me.

Last edited by gbm82; 12-18-2023 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 12-18-2023, 06:42 PM   #221932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cinema View Post
Let's try this again. What did you mean when you said "they should license some of their DVD titles to other labels or pump up the output"? They don't own the titles they've released on DVD, and unless there's solid evidence that they have licensed the BD or 4K rights to those titles, they're still up for anyone else to have at them, no? I'm not understanding how Criterion is to blame for other boutiques not licensing them either. It certainly hasn't stopped Kino at all.
Yes, I understand that not every title Criterion has put out is still under their license. I'm simply complaining that a label that releases 5 titles per month, and has access to a vast catalog of films they can release, chooses to release 2 titles in a month that could be released by Altered Innocence or another VS sub label. Just my two cents. If you don't agree with that, fine.
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Old 12-18-2023, 09:20 PM   #221933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
LOL jesus one post about a really shitty month from Criterion (it is, don't f__king pretend it's not lol) and I'm Mr. Complainer. I'll take the hits haha, just not a fan of labels that release 60 titles a year releasing titles that would get a release from VS's deepest partner labels, sue me.
I'm still waiting for Criterion to upgrade Costa-Gavras's Z, one of the most incisive political films ever made yet it still languishes as a DVD-only release.

I was also underwhelmed by the newest Criterion release slate, but 2024 might still hold some surprises. I miss the annual New Year's release sketch.
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Old 12-18-2023, 09:52 PM   #221934
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Originally Posted by HenryHill View Post
I'm still waiting for Criterion to upgrade Costa-Gavras's Z, one of the most incisive political films ever made yet it still languishes as a DVD-only release.

I was also underwhelmed by the newest Criterion release slate, but 2024 might still hold some surprises. I miss the annual New Year's release sketch.
Most definitely! Criterion is still putting out a lot of great titles and upgrades, but I just found this month's announcement slate a little underwhelming. Laura Poitras is a great documentarian and I'm sure her recent work about the opioid crisis is strong and prescient, but I can't say I was thrilled with the announcement of that disc over other possibilities haha. Just a minor quibble.
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Old 12-19-2023, 01:55 AM   #221935
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@mja: I noted 'AFTER HOURS' is #1 on your list of movies you wish were on Blu-Ray. I reckon you can remove it now as "After Hours" is out on BLU.

Now you'll have to ponder which movie is #10 with the others all moving up a notch!
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Old 12-19-2023, 05:09 AM   #221936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja345 View Post
Most definitely! Criterion is still putting out a lot of great titles and upgrades, but I just found this month's announcement slate a little underwhelming. Laura Poitras is a great documentarian and I'm sure her recent work about the opioid crisis is strong and prescient, but I can't say I was thrilled with the announcement of that disc over other possibilities haha. Just a minor quibble.
Your top 10 on Blu needs some editing thanks to Criterion. Both announced in 2023 and both I don’t think would feel out of place from a Vinegar Syndrome Partner Label (said with love as I’m a big fan of Vinegar Syndrome Partner Labels).
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Old 12-19-2023, 05:42 AM   #221937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gacivory View Post
Your top 10 on Blu needs some editing thanks to Criterion. Both announced in 2023 and both I don’t think would feel out of place from a Vinegar Syndrome Partner Label (said with love as I’m a big fan of Vinegar Syndrome Partner Labels).
It does indeed, "Lone Star" and "After Hours" are definitely two of the most exciting releases/announcements of the past year, massive kudos to Criterion for those obviously.
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Old 12-19-2023, 05:46 AM   #221938
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Not heard of The Runner before!

Saint Omer has a decent selection of extras, though Bloodshed is relatively barebones (both NYFF conversations are on YouTube), while the main extras on All That Money Can Buy and To Die For are commentaries.
I saw the Runner in the theater earlier this year, it is one of the greatest movies I’ve ever seen in the theater.
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Old 12-19-2023, 07:06 AM   #221939
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There are so many members on these forums who seem to be wilfully ignorant of the most basic aspects of commerce, ownership and the sheer amount of work required to release a title on disc.
  • For the umptinth time, Criterion does not own the movies they release on disc. They are not a film studio. They are a small home video label that LICENSES titles from the companies/individuals who do own them. These licenses are limited by time, territory, disc formats, film versions.... everything you can think of and more, including potentially the cover art and the font size used for a particular actor's credit. (Just go ahead and try to get new artwork approved for a Tom Cruise film. You will be waiting for months for his team to even acknowledge you.)
  • Criterion can not sublicense a title to a third party. This is not an warehouse complex!!
  • Criterion has always released around 5 titles per month, with a few large multi-film box sets a year. This is part of their business model.
  • In the last 15 years, Criterion has released 1,576 movies on Blu-ray.
  • That is an average of 105 titles per year. That's between 8 to 9 titles per month, when you add in the box sets.
  • That is above average for a small boutique label. I know we're all now spoiled by the dozens of titles KINO releases per month, but they are an outlier. Not to mention that rarely if ever does KINO tackle incredibly expensive and time consuming restorations like the ones that Criterion has done for titles like The Apu Trilogy, Detour, The Lady Eve, 100 Years of Olympic Films, just to name a few.
  • Criterion currently has about 60 employees. That includes everyone from Jonathan Turell (CEO) and Peter Becker (President) to the film and audio restoration experts, documentarians, layout artists, the devs running the Criterion Channel, down to the receptionist.
  • There are roughly 260 work days in a year.
  • 260 divided by 105 is approximately 2.5 days of work per title.
  • This means that it takes a team of about 60 people just 2.5 days of time to license a title, chase down elements, have them scanned, restored and color corrected. Then there is the audio work. Then there is the supplemental material to be produced. Waiting on talent availability, and willingness, for participating in everything from color grading to interviews. Artwork that needs to be created and cleared by living actors or the estates of deceased ones. Subtitles need to be created. Discs authored and QC'd. Then all of this needs to be timed with the workflow of the two remaining major disc manufacturers in the world, both of whom are now unable to keep up with demand. If you want to put this in total hours, it's about 1200 hours of work per title. (Obviously every title is different. Many new titles have readymade deliverables that simply need to be color corrected for home video use. While a title like Freaks may involve years of simply searching every archive and collection in the world looking for the best and longest available film material.)

    In short, it takes a lot of work to put together a single shiny disc that we can then spend countless hours complaining about. ("How dare they not include Dolby Atmos for a film made in 1952!" "If they don't use the Czechoslovakian poster art for this 1930's MGM musical, then it's a NO BUY from me!!")
And one last thing about licenses. What I'm about to say is pure conjecture as I don't have secret access to Criterion's legal files. But this is conjecture based on decades of experience working in the film industry.

Many of Criterion's licenses for their older catalogue titles, especially the Japanese films, are very old licenses. One thing about working with Japanese companies is that personal relationships are everything. If we just take into account the basic facts of life, most if not all of the contacts that Criterion had in the 80's and 90's at the Japanese studios are now long gone. It is very likely that the new regimes that oversee these properties at the Japanese studios are not happy with these extremely lengthy licenses that their predecessors signed with Criterion.

And as such, they are doing everything they can to make sure Criterion is forced into new and very expensive contracts. We all know how Toho forced Criterion to use very old scans for their Godzilla box set. As the licensor, it is very easy for you to make life difficult for the licensee. As the licensee, your hands are pretty much tied. You don't want to get into a fight, much less a legal one, with a licensor. Not only is there no profit in it, you will only burn your bridge with that licensor. Not to mention that you will then be seen as "difficult" by other licensors. At that point, you might as well close your doors, because no one will want to license titles to you.
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Old 12-19-2023, 12:42 PM   #221940
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