The Criterion Collection

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by CandymanHappyman

Many of Criterion's licenses for their older catalogue titles, especially the Japanese films, are very old licenses. One thing about working with Japanese companies is that personal relationships are everything. If we just take into account the basic facts of life, most if not all of the contacts that Criterion had in the 80's and 90's at the Japanese studios are now long gone. It is very likely that the new regimes that oversee these properties at the Japanese studios are not happy with these extremely lengthy licenses that their predecessors signed with Criterion.

And as such, they are doing everything they can to make sure Criterion is forced into new and very expensive contracts. We all know how Toho forced Criterion to use very old scans for their Godzilla box set. As the licensor, it is very easy for you to make life difficult for the licensee. As the licensee, your hands are pretty much tied. You don't want to get into a fight, much less a legal one, with a licensor. Not only is there no profit in it, you will only burn your bridge with that licensor. Not to mention that you will then be seen as "difficult" by other licensors. At that point, you might as well close your doors, because no one will want to license titles to you.

You make a ton of interesting points and thank you for that. Still, Criterion has nearly 300 Japanese films that have not had DVD's or Blu-rays with the vast majority being licensed after 2008. So while not recent, it's still not the 80's or 90's.

Also the majority of the films are not Toho, but either Nikkatsu, Kadokawa, or Shochiku. Much smaller labels are releasing their films with almost no issues, yet Criterion have released ZERO new to HD discs of films from any of these studios since October 2022. That's going on a year and half and this point.

Radiance which only comprised of a handful of people was still able to release over 30 films in a year, and Criterion has 60!

Criterion could easily release more Japanese films if they wanted to. At this point, I'm just hoping they lose the licenses to a lot of these films, but it seems like Criterion holds onto a lot of them with iron grips.

[Joe Cinema]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

You make a ton of interesting points and thank you for that. Still, Criterion has nearly 300 Japanese films that have not had DVD's or Blu-rays with the vast majority being licensed after 2008. So while not recent, it's still not the 80's or 90's.

I see references like this get thrown around all the time here, but where's the evidence or source to show any of this is true and that Criterion is preventing anyone else from licensing these 300 films or any others I see mentioned? I realize these companies play close to the chest with their business dealings, but if this is 100% true and accurate you'd think someone would provide some substance to these repeated claims by now. Investment wise, I don't see how or why any company would spend the money to hold the license on 300+ films for 15+ years and counting and never get any return on it.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Joe Cinema

I see references like this get thrown around all the time here, but where's the evidence or source to show any of this is true and that Criterion is preventing anyone else from licensing these 300 films or any others I see mentioned? I realize these companies play close to the chest with their business dealings, but if this is 100% true and accurate you'd think someone would provide some substance to these repeated claims by now. Investment wise, I don't see how or why any company would spend the money to hold the license on 300+ films for 15+ years and counting and never get any return on it.

The list is on the first posts on the Japanese film thread. All of these films are on the Criterion Channel and open with the Janus logo. Many of them have played at film festivals over the course of the last 15 years including the Hideo Gosha films I've been hoping get a release for years and have been presented by Janus.

At least two other labels I've talked to said they couldn't acquire the films I asked about as the rights were already taken by Criterion for both physical and streaming. None of this is information is new.

[Joe Cinema]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

The list is on the first posts on the Japanese film thread. All of these films are on the Criterion Channel and open with the Janus logo. Many of them have played at film festivals over the course of the last 15 years including the Hideo Gosha films I've been hoping get a release for years and have been presented by Janus.

At least two other labels I've talked to said they couldn't acquire the films I asked about as the rights were already taken by Criterion for both physical and streaming. None of this is information is new.

300 titles is your claim, but again I've never seen concrete evidence of it. Looking at the Channel isn't confirmation of any upcoming release. I appreciate that these are pieces of information and an attempt to form conclusions, but I never understand why so many here refer to them as fact.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Joe Cinema

300 titles is your claim, but again I've never seen concrete evidence of it. Looking at the Channel isn't confirmation of any upcoming release. I appreciate that these are pieces of information and attempt to form conclusions, but I never understand why so many here refer to them as fact.

It is unfortunately true. They do hold the license to a lot of titles. Why are they not being released? I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps they're waiting for their owners to do remasters/restorations. Maybe their priorities have changed in the years since—which they have. You'll notice a more diverse slate of films every month, whereas it used to be mostly English-language, French, Italian & Japanese films dominating. It could also be that they licensed them in bundles/batches, and they do make some streaming revenue.

If you go to Janusfilms.com, which is Criterion's parent/theatrical company, you'll see they have the licenses to lots of films they haven't put out on discs (and some of them are streaming on the Criterion Channell exclusively). I don't know the amount of titles they're holding onto though. My guess is well over 100.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Joe Cinema

300 titles is your claim, but again I've never seen concrete evidence of it. Looking at the Channel isn't confirmation of any upcoming release. I appreciate that these are pieces of information and an attempt to form conclusions, but I never understand why so many here refer to them as fact.

Again, if it opens with the Janus logo, that's pretty hard evidence that Criterion has the rights to it. Criterion/Janus touring the films, also evidence. Other labels saying they can't acquire the films, even more evidence. Do you want more evidence? I've actually e-mailed Criterion and Criterion directly have told me they have the rights to the films and I've asked about 50 films over the course of the last 15 years out of the 300 or so.

If you don't believe me, feel free to e-mail Criterion and ask them about it.

[JasonMichael]

Having streaming and theatrical rights doesn't equate to physical disc rights.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by JasonMichael

Having streaming and theatrical rights doesn't equate to physical disc rights.

With Criterion, it actually does. I've asked them a few times in the past, that if a film opens with a Criterion logo, does that mean they would be able to release the film on DVD or Blu-ray and they told me yes.

There is also no reason to think otherwise either. As far as I know there has never been a film that opens with the Janus logo to be released for the first time on Blu-ray by someone else in the US.

There are plenty of films on the channel that are licensed to someone else, just not the ones with the Janus logo. Janus doesn't strike me the company that would only license and tour a film and not have physical rights as well. So not sure where this idea of not having the physical rights to something came from, if it has the Janus logo on it?

[WillieMLF]

We don't have to have evidence of anything nowadays. I feel it in my bones should be enough. The broken record plays on.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Again, if it opens with the Janus logo, that's pretty hard evidence that Criterion has the rights to it. Criterion/Janus touring the films, also evidence. Other labels saying they can't acquire the films, even more evidence. Do you want more evidence? I've actually e-mailed Criterion and Criterion directly have told me they have the rights to the films and I've asked about 50 films over the course of the last 15 years out of the 300 or so.

If you don't believe me, feel free to e-mail Criterion and ask them about it.

How many of those are old master where they retain the streaming rights to but not the physical rights?

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by bergman864

How many of those are old master where they retain the streaming rights to but not the physical rights?

Not quite sure what you're asking, but what I think you're trying to say is that they only retain the physical rights to the older masters and not the newer ones? That's probably accurate that they only have access to what they paid for initially. They may not want to release an older master when there is a newer master.

However, for the most part, at least with the Japanese films, there are no newer masters for a lot of them. Obviously the big ones directed by Ozu and Kurosawa have newer 4K masters, but most of the titles they have the rights to, haven't been remastered.

[Scottie]

A quick search on Janus's website yields 212 results for films of Japanese origins. This doesn't even include those films that Janus/Criterion may be licensing from a different company for home video release.

There are indeed a lot of films that could benefit from any type of release.

December would have been a good month to have announced an Ozu box set.

[Joe Cinema]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

With Criterion, it actually does. I've asked them a few times in the past, that if a film opens with a Criterion logo, does that mean they would be able to release the film on DVD or Blu-ray and they told me yes.

Originally Posted by Scottie

A quick search on Janus's website yields 212 results for films of Japanese origins. This doesn't even include those films that Janus/Criterion may be licensing from a different company for home video release.

There are indeed a lot of films that could benefit from any type of release.

December would have been a good month to have announced an Ozu box set.

So they would be able to release it on physical media, but it's no guarantee that because Janus licensed it that Criterion will release it? Is there some reason you believe anything Janus will be released by Criterion, especially considering that clearly has not been true? When you contact Criterion and ask about these 300 titles they haven't released in the 15 years you believe they've had the rights to, what is their answer about the hold up? I'm just not seeing why it's constantly stated as fact that Criterion has prevented these 300 movies as well as many more from ever getting a physical release. Just saying to go look at a list isn't enough confirmation for me.

[dvining]

I still think Criterion should upgrade the Eclipse line to Blu-ray and just start pushing out the older masters through that label at slightly discounted prices from full Criterion prices.

They have the label. They have the masters. Presumably, they have the rights but just not the time to do restoration work themselves, money to pay for someone else to do the restoration work, or desire to use their central line for the titles anymore. So, just give us the HD scans on disc. It may not be perfect, but it's better than relegated to streaming or DVD.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Joe Cinema

When you contact Criterion and ask about these 300 titles they haven't released in the 15 years you believe they've had the rights to, what is their answer about the hold up? I'm just not seeing why it's constantly stated as fact that Criterion has prevented these 300 movies as well as many more from ever getting a physical release. Just saying to go look at a list isn't enough confirmation for me.

When they first revealed to me that they had physical rights to all the Hideo Gosha films like Bandits VS Samurai Squadron and Hunter in the Dark, I followed up by asking them a few times why they haven't released these films on disc? The answer I got then was that they simply have a lot of films they want to release, but have to space things out. They eventually released Cure which is one they had streaming for over a decade and I kept bugging them about as well.

At the end of the day, they are going to prioritize certain types of films. They purchased the rights to a ton of Japanese films, but there is no fire forcing them to release them in any sort of timely fashion. They probably see how many people are watching certain films on their streaming service and sometimes the numbers are too low that they may not care to release them on disc. It's never really been question of them not having the rights to the film, but more of a question of why not and when.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by dvining

I still think Criterion should upgrade the Eclipse line to Blu-ray and just start pushing out the older masters through that label at slightly discounted prices from full Criterion prices.

They have the label. They have the masters. Presumably, they have the rights but just not the time to do restoration work themselves, money to pay for someone else to do the restoration work, or desire to use their central line for the titles anymore. So, just give us the HD scans on disc. It may not be perfect, but it's better than relegated to streaming or DVD.

I wish you were in charge of Criterion. I really do.

[DukeTogo84]

Funny story, but looking through my e-mail history I found one from January 2011 where "Jon Mulvaney" revealed to me that they would be releasing Three Outlaw Samurai. Took them more than a year after that, but we don't really get than transparency from a lot of labels anymore.

I don't even want to mention how many e-mails I've sent to them over the years asking about the Hideo Gosha films and all for naught as they haven't released anything since 3 Outlaw Samurai. It's kind of scary.

[dvining]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

I wish you were in charge of Criterion. I really do.

I don't know if you'd like that.

Let me phrase it this way, in five words: Hamlet 2: The Definitive Edition.

[fred25_Ca]

I'm still annoyed that they own the entire Harold Lloyd collection and have only released 4 films so far and the last one was all the way in 2019... I mean, I know each Lloyd criterion releases have been fairly wonderful, with great care taken but at this point, with how many are left, it's clear we'll never see the end of it. Would have been so much better if another label like Kino or Flicker alley would have ended up with them.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Not quite sure what you're asking, but what I think you're trying to say is that they only retain the physical rights to the older masters and not the newer ones? That's probably accurate that they only have access to what they paid for initially. They may not want to release an older master when there is a newer master.

However, for the most part, at least with the Japanese films, there are no newer masters for a lot of them. Obviously the big ones directed by Ozu and Kurosawa have newer 4K masters, but most of the titles they have the rights to, haven't been remastered.

I'm saying it's pretty easy to splice a logo at the front of a master. And they could retain streaming rights to old masters while losing physical rights.