The Criterion Collection

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by thelberg

I'm no Criterion hater and I look forward to what they put out each month, but it's getting increasingly frustrating how they dump these wonderful films on Hulu. While it's great that there is an avenue to actually see them (Voyage to Italy!!) it feels like they are stuck in limbo. A Man Escaped, one of my all time favorites and a masterpiece, has been on Hulu for a year and I fear it may not ever see a proper Blu-ray release.

I understand that Criterion tries to "curate" each month's slate of releases to have something for everyone and that they're probably trying to ensure the longevity of their label by holding out on the "good stuff." But the kinds of films they just dumped on Hulu used to be their bread and butter. I hope these movies all get Blu-ray or Eclipse releases and aren't stuck in this Hulu netherworld indefinitely.

I am looking more and more at BFI and MoC releases. The main problem with putting all these movies on Hulu is that 95% of the planet cannot see them. I know that for a lot of people BFI or MoC are a problem due to their region lock but the new way of doing things with Criterion in the last two years is one of the reason I got myself a region free player.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

Criterion dumped a bunch of Rossellini, Ozu, Oshima, Rivette, etc on Hulu just now (Voyage to Italy, etc). In other news, what did they announce for December again? I can't remember.

They just put up Maria Braun and Veronika Voss (not Lola though) of the BRD Trilogy (hope it's a sign) and Fear Eats The Soul.

Thanks Spidey! You may just have pushed me into trying out Hulu. Between the new Ozus out (which neither Criterion nor BFI have yet released) and the large number of Naruse films that I didn't even know existed...plus the fact that it would save me a ton of money in the long run...I think I'll test it out for a few months.

Do you or anyone else know how long the trial currently is and is there a way to extend the trial?

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by RojD

Meanwhile, I feel like blu has finally come of age now that we have Rules of the Game and Children of Paradise. Now what about Le quai des brumes, Hôtel du Nord, and Le jour se lève? These aren't minor projects.....they're great movies and essential Poetic Realism. Films like these really helped me get what's happening in neorealist stuff like Umberto D. I'd love to see 'em on blu.

I watched my new region B Le quai des brumes the other day and thought it was fantastic. Great film and a nice digibook package from Studio Canal.
I presume that Lionsgate will release it in region A as they did with La Grande Illusion. Speaking of that film, I also bought and watched it recently. Great film starring half the cast of La Règle du jeu.

[RojD]

Originally Posted by drbikeshorts

I watched my new region B Le quai des brumes the other day and thought it was fantastic. Great film and a nice digibook package from Studio Canal.
I presume that Lionsgate will release it in region A as they did with La Grande Illusion. Speaking of that film, I also bought and watched it recently. Great film starring half the cast of La Règle du jeu.

I was happy to see La Grand Illusion, too. Great film. And I hadn't realized Le quai des brumes was out in region B, but that makes me hopeful about a release here, on whatever label.

I'm still dithering about getting a region-free player. I like what Criterion can do with a film when they dig in with the special features. I spent a lot of time with the ones on Rules of the Game and am still enjoying those on Children of Paradise. Traffic has great extras. Even a mediocre film like The Game is more worthwhile with the supplemental material.

But to see Le quai des brumes clearly......I might have to think about expanding my system.

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by Yami

Boy is perhaps Oshima's best film. Great news, I've long wanted a Criterion release so I hope it doesn't take too long.

This means Criterion has more Oshima too (not just the 4-film Youth Trilogy that they have had for a while and Boy), including Death By Hanging and The Man Who Left His Will on Film since Boy is a part of the ATG distributed Oshima films. A bunch of Oshima to look forward to.

[Dubstar]

Grande Illusion is currently playing at the new Angelika Mosaic theater (in Merrifield Virginia) in DCP form.

[easyblu]

Is there no way to sort movies by director on Hulu anymore? I really liked that feature where they had an alphabetical list of directors, with their movies underneath. And you could sort by region too.

[los53]

I know this has been posted before, but how do you guys organize your Criterion collection? Spine Number or alphabetical order?

[Hawkguy]

Originally Posted by los53

I know this has been posted before, but how do you guys organize your Criterion collection? Spine Number or alphabetical order?

Spine number for me.

[JHas]

Originally Posted by los53

I know this has been posted before, but how do you guys organize your Criterion collection? Spine Number or alphabetical order?

A hodge podge of director, themes, genre.

[ShellOilJunior]

RAH is not too fond of the lack of grain on the Children of Paradise blu-ray and Pro-B was disappointed, too.

....yet Criterion seems to believe Pathe did a great job.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by los53

I know this has been posted before, but how do you guys organize your Criterion collection? Spine Number or alphabetical order?

Theme and spine number.

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

RAH is not too fond of the lack of grain on the Children of Paradise blu-ray and Pro-B was disappointed, too.

....yet Criterion seems to believe Pathe did a great job.

Even if it was the worst release that you can think of, they don't want to talk anybody out of buying it.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by los53

I know this has been posted before, but how do you guys organize your Criterion collection? Spine Number or alphabetical order?

Alphabetically - I mix them in with my regular BDs.

[mport5150]

Originally Posted by los53

I know this has been posted before, but how do you guys organize your Criterion collection? Spine Number or alphabetical order?

Spine # for me as well....and I keep them separate from my other Blu's....

Watched For All Mankind and The 39 Steps this weekend....I really enjoyed The 39 Steps......I thought For All Mankind was too choppy......they kept jumping from mission to mission and you didn't even know who was who....

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

RAH is not too fond of the lack of grain on the Children of Paradise blu-ray and Pro-B was disappointed, too.

....yet Criterion seems to believe Pathe did a great job.

What would you expect them to say?

Please do not buy this product, it's bad and we made a mistake!



No way they would ever say something like that, it's just easier to try and pretent nothing's wrong

[RojD]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

That post is actually extremely misleading - for reasons I have noted above.

Soft photography and softness produced by heavy filtering are two completely different things. Pathe's new master suffers from very heavy filtering, and the softness you are seeing is a byproduct of it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the original photography.

The grain is also not intact. What you see the overwhelming majority of the time are the effects of the compromising filtering. This is extremely easy to see, for example, in the lower left corner in the capture below (see the woman's face). This isn't "grain".

Finally, contrary to the popular belief shared on forums, 4K scans do not expose grain. On the contrary, the higher the resolution/scan, the less grain you will see, because the image gets "tighter". This is why when some reviewers can't see "grain" on 4K scans/releases they go in "must have been DNR" mode. Prime example is this excellent release, which generated some pretty funny comments:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Break.../21311/#Review


https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...077&position=7


Pro-B

Thanks for taking the time to go into facts and details in your response, PB. The egghead in me likes detail.

I know very little about transferring film to digital video though I work with still photos a lot. What you mentioned about less grain at higher resolutions is absolutely true in still scans, too.

But I think I wasn't real clear on what I meant with respect to grain and filters. I was trying to say that vintage photos and film can have a soft look, esp 30s-50s studio photography, but that they also have grain; grain and softness are two entirely different properties. With respect to film (stills, again), I often make the judgement to be less true to the original because the original doesn't look original when it's in pixels on a monitor. I add violet to my blacks pretty regularly (it's common in transferring paper or neg images to digital so they have a little more pop on the screen), and if I wanted to recreate a silvery effect, I'd reduce grain if I had to. The source would determine how much I'd do this.

So anyway, my point isn't whether the Children of Paradise transfer is good or bad but to say there's a certainly a judgement call that Pathe has made for a less literal scan. And for me, that judgement works fine; I like the tone of the scan a lot. Of course, I'd almost have to go back to the days of 720p halos on 50" screens before I'd put up a major stink, but I know people who want a...er, well I guess they'd call it "truer" scan. And that's a perfectly reasonable preference if not an aesthetic judgment I share. I genuinely think that the quality of a scan is at least partly a question of taste that takes into consideration the respective media of the source and the product. (We could talk about speed on silent film next.)

I do appreciate your contributions to the board. Always informative and stimulating.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by RojD

Thanks for taking the time to go into facts and details in your response, PB. The egghead in me likes detail.

I know very little about transferring film to digital video though I work with still photos a lot. What you mentioned about less grain at higher resolutions is absolutely true in still scans, too.

But I think I wasn't real clear on what I meant with respect to grain and filters. I was trying to say that vintage photos and film can have a soft look, esp 30s-50s studio photography, but that they also have grain; grain and softness are two entirely different properties. With respect to film (stills, again), I often make the judgement to be less true to the original because the original doesn't look original when it's in pixels on a monitor. I add violet to my blacks pretty regularly (it's common in transferring paper or neg images to digital so they have a little more pop on the screen), and if I wanted to recreate a silvery effect, I'd reduce grain if I had to. The source would determine how much I'd do this.

So anyway, my point isn't whether the Children of Paradise transfer is good or bad but to say there's a certainly a judgement call that Pathe has made for a less literal scan. And for me, that judgement works fine; I like the tone of the scan a lot. Of course, I'd almost have to go back to the days of 720p halos on 50" screens before I'd put up a major stink, but I know people who want a...er, well I guess they'd call it "truer" scan. And that's a perfectly reasonable preference if not an aesthetic judgment I share. I genuinely think that the quality of a scan is at least partly a question of taste that takes into consideration the respective media of the source and the product. (We could talk about speed on silent film next.)

I do appreciate your contributions to the board. Always informative and stimulating.

Thank you for the clarification, RojD.

I would just like to leave one last comment.

What I saw actually has nothing to do with - and I will use your description here, hopefully you do not mind - "the tone of the scan". The softness, problematic color grading, and all of the other issues I noted in the review are achieved with digital tools, after the scan was done. In other words, you actually have not seen the "tone of the scan", because what the 4K resto produced was destroyed in the lab.

On the other hand, I don't want to speculate exactly what Pathe did and specifically whether they have a compromised master or if they actually also manipulated the 4K files (now this would be something truly tragic), but suffice to say the origin of the problem, I am convinced, is in France, not in the U.S.

In any event, thank you very much for your comments, RojD. And, seeing that you are a Gabin fan, I hope that you will consider picking up Le Quai Des Brumes. Now, this is a very good release.

Have a wonderful weekend, RojD.

Pro-B

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by los53

I know this has been posted before, but how do you guys organize your Criterion collection? Spine Number or alphabetical order?

SPINE # for all of the collection, Blu-ray and DVD all mixed together.

[Freeza]

Spine for the DVDs, set # for the Eclipse and spine color for the Blu-rays