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Old 03-05-2013, 10:15 PM   #64201
Hypnosifl Hypnosifl is offline
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Originally Posted by octagon View Post
I absolutely loved it (based also on one viewing only). Often when films are difficult to decipher there's something of a manipulative feel to the supposed depth and complexity. Almost like they're trying a little too hard and being a little too cute.

I never got that impression here. I never felt they were doing anything just for the sake of being clever. I didn't understand much of it but I never felt cheated or toyed with.
To me it was a great movie but it had a pretty nightmarish quality, it seemed like it was externalizing all these alienating aspects of the Hoffman character's experience--his sense of life passing by too quickly, of feeling creatively blocked on a forever unfinished artistic project, and especially a sense that the character is so much in his own head that it's claustrophobic, that the boundary between other people and his mental images of them is constantly confused, and this makes it hard to connect with anyone. It felt to me a bit like one of those psychological horror stories that puts you in the perspective of someone who may be going crazy and losing track of the boundary between reality and fantasy, like Jacob's Ladder or The Innocents. Later I learned that the movie did actually grow out of Kaufman's inspiration to do his own kind of horror movie:
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To really begin to understand Synecdoche, New York you need to know that it started life as a genre film. "Originally, Sony talked to Spike Jonze and me about doing a horror movie," says Kaufman, "and so Spike and I talked about things that were scary to us. Issues of mortality, and illness, and relationship struggles, and loneliness - all those things seemed like what's really scary as opposed to horror movie stuff - so I started thinking about that, and this film is what came of it."
So while it obviously isn't "horror" in any conventional sense, I think this is one lens you can view the movie through. Like you said, it didn't seem like the complicated self-referential structure was just to show off his cleverness, it felt very personal to me.

Last edited by Hypnosifl; 03-05-2013 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:21 PM   #64202
IronWaffle IronWaffle is offline
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CoopFilm,

I just checked and at least on White/Blanc "Second Printing" is printed along the outside rim of the disc art. Specifically, near the end after the Cat. no. And before the film length. I'm assuming Criterion is meticulously consistent with this so if you don't see it there then its time to write Mulvaney. Just don't mention you have heard about his time machine; trust me.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:41 PM   #64203
IronWaffle IronWaffle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octagon View Post
I absolutely loved it (based also on one viewing only). Often when films are difficult to decipher there's something of a manipulative feel to the supposed depth and complexity. Almost like they're trying a little too hard and being a little too cute.

I never got that impression here. I never felt they were doing anything just for the sake of being clever. I didn't understand much of it but I never felt cheated or toyed with.

So far Charlie Kaufman scripts (Being John Malkovich, S, NY and Adaptation in that viewing order) have impressed the hell out of me. I'm almost a little reluctant to watch Eternal Sunshine for fear of breaking the streak.
One problem with my first viewing is that I watched it on a 15" laptop and was frustrated by my inability to keep track of the meta elements visually. When it was over, I had all these bits in my head that I loved for their oddly playful melancholy but it was more fragmentary than it would have been had I seen it properly. At least that's what I suspected, and when I watched again a few weeks later when I had access to my 42" TV most of my reservations ebbed. I say most because I still felt there was an odd pacing that I attributed it to it being a directorial debut by a writer. That may or may not be fair. On that second viewing the pieces did gel and while the film still felt fragmented, this time it was to a natural degree based on the structure.

It's time I pop it in again. My life has changed a lot in the intervening years and the strongest impression the film made on me is that it is one of those films that needs revisiting not just because it deserves it, but because the nature of the story is one which is likely to reveal itself differently depending on one's own passage through life. That is a rare thing I tend to cherish.

As to Eternal Sunshine, I think it is an ingenious movie. It isn't at the same level, perhaps, but that may have more to do with Gondry perhaps amping up the "cute" factor some (Could be Carrey, too; I'm not a huge fan). Nevertheless, I'd say see it with your mind on it as a lesser Kaufman film and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And it has held up to multiple viewings for me, revealing new character, thematic and even production nuances each time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnosifl View Post
To me it was a great movie but it had a pretty nightmarish quality, it seemed like it was externalizing all these alienating aspects of the Hoffman character's experience--his sense of life passing by too quickly, of feeling creatively blocked on a forever unfinished artistic project, and especially a sense that the character is so much in his own head that it's claustrophobic, that the boundary between other people and his mental images of them is constantly confused, and this makes it hard to connect with anyone. It felt to me a bit like one of those psychological horror stories that puts you in the perspective of someone who may be going crazy and losing track of the boundary between reality and fantasy, like Jacob's Ladder or The Innocents. Later I learned that the movie did actually grow out of Kaufman's inspiration to do his own kind of horror movie:

So while it obviously isn't "horror" in any conventional sense, I think this is one lens you can view the movie through. Like you said, it didn't seem like the complicated self-referential structure was just to show off his cleverness, it felt very personal to me.
I love this reading of the film! It's been so long I wish I could have been so specific. I think calling out the nightmarish quality is spot-on. Much like Adaptation., Synecdoche also externalities neuroses and narcissism, but without buffeting it with all the comedic elements. In a sense (boy, this is gonna be a shite analogy), if Adaptation. were Kaufman's Annie Hall then Synecdoche might be his Husbands & Wives in that it zooms in painfully close on something the former flirted with and instead of playing with the darker elements (à la Allen's signature films between: Hannah & Her Sisters and Crimes & Misdemeanors) it attacks them head-on.

I'm going to watch Synecdoche tomorrow and afterwards check out that Guardian link. If I can handle the emotional heft.

Last edited by IronWaffle; 03-05-2013 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:45 PM   #64204
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Originally Posted by BohemianGraham View Post
Goes to show that I'm not as hardcore about Star Wars as everyone else. I don't remember it.
Star Wars is basically just a remake of Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. If you can remember The Hidden Fortress, then it's all good.

Also... The character of Yoda was strongly influenced by the title character of Akira Kurosawa's Dersu Uzala.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:57 PM   #64205
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When did I ever say that the timeline was a substitute for re-watching the film?
You didn't, but too many rely on wiki pages and fan sites to explain everything. Its a blessing and a curse.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:20 AM   #64206
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Besides the obvious reference to the Women's Movement of the 1970s through the war between the sexes, what is honestly the point of Black Moon? Was it filmed in French and dubbed in English?

I just finished this and I honestly don't even know. If this film's purpose is to be another Alice In Wonderland, then I personally don't think it did a great job with that.

What's with all of the naked children and the breastfeeding? Did this film get banned for you know, the whole nudity thing? Also, why is nobody creeped out with what's going on? They come in and out, they're strangers with one another, and yet it's normal for them.

I don't get it, but this film was irritating
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:43 AM   #64207
Abdrewes Abdrewes is offline
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Originally Posted by iScottie View Post
Besides the obvious reference to the Women's Movement of the 1970s through the war between the sexes, what is honestly the point of Black Moon? Was it filmed in French and dubbed in English?

I just finished this and I honestly don't even know. If this film's purpose is to be another Alice In Wonderland, then I personally don't think it did a great job with that.

What's with all of the naked children and the breastfeeding? Did this film get banned for you know, the whole nudity thing? Also, why is nobody creeped out with what's going on? They come in and out, they're strangers with one another, and yet it's normal for them.

I don't get it, but this film was irritating
Please watch Salo next, that's a fair double bill
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:48 AM   #64208
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Originally Posted by Abdrewes View Post
Please watch Salo next, that's a fair double bill
Sorry, but I don't think that I can tolerate watching people eat shit tonight (literally).
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:48 AM   #64209
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Please watch Salo next, that's a fair double bill
What did he ever do to you that you should say such a thing?!
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:50 AM   #64210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iScottie View Post
Besides the obvious reference to the Women's Movement of the 1970s through the war between the sexes, what is honestly the point of Black Moon? Was it filmed in French and dubbed in English?

I just finished this and I honestly don't even know. If this film's purpose is to be another Alice In Wonderland, then I personally don't think it did a great job with that.

What's with all of the naked children and the breastfeeding? Did this film get banned for you know, the whole nudity thing? Also, why is nobody creeped out with what's going on? They come in and out, they're strangers with one another, and yet it's normal for them.

I don't get it, but this film was irritating
Malle's BLACK MOON (not to be confused with the great 1934 Columbia Pictures voodoo island melodrama starring Fay Wray) definitely benefits from the bonus featurette and booklet essays, not to mention the Blu-ray.com review ("highly recommended!") but, yeah, that's one weird film all right! And apparently English was the preferred language for this film by Malle.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:03 AM   #64211
diskspinner diskspinner is online now
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What I hate regarding Criterion reviews in blu-ray.com is no movie gets less than 4 (Well, may be there is a few but do not remember seeing any getting less than 4)...Movies are supposed to be subjective (& personal opinion) but Dr. Svet seems to like everything thrown to him by criterion. So before buying I have started borrowing from library.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:11 AM   #64212
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What did he ever do to you that you should say such a thing?!
Well, they are both divisive, both from 1975, and both have a detached, dry sensibility...above all, I want to hear a Salo first timer's horror story.

Last edited by Abdrewes; 03-06-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:12 AM   #64213
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Originally Posted by diskspinner View Post
What I hate regarding Criterion reviews in blu-ray.com is no movie gets less than 4 (Well, may be there is a few but do not remember seeing any getting less than 4)...Movies are supposed to be subjective (& personal opinion) but Dr. Svet seems to like everything thrown to him by criterion. So before buying I have started borrowing from library.
(I'm waiting for Dr Svet to come and cruuuush this post)
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:13 AM   #64214
IronWaffle IronWaffle is offline
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Quote:
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Well, they are both divisive, both from 1975, and both have a detached, dry sensibility...above all, I want to hear a Salo first timer's horror stories.
Buy me a copy and I'll write a thesis on it. I may also add you to my ignore list, a very exclusive little club.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:22 AM   #64215
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Who in their right mind would make a film like Salo?

I just read about it online and that is straight up DISGUSTING.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:29 AM   #64216
Abdrewes Abdrewes is offline
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Originally Posted by IronWaffle View Post
Buy me a copy and I'll write a thesis on it. I may also add you to my ignore list, a very exclusive little club.
To be flat out honest, Ive only ever seen Salo on a 15" laptop screen. I hated it then, but have come to respect it. I don't know when I'll ever sit down to watch it again, but the Blu ray was worth it alone for the essays and extras.

Come CC sale time, I might just take you up on that offer.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:32 AM   #64217
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Originally Posted by diskspinner View Post
What I hate regarding Criterion reviews in blu-ray.com is no movie gets less than 4 (Well, may be there is a few but do not remember seeing any getting less than 4)...Movies are supposed to be subjective (& personal opinion) but Dr. Svet seems to like everything thrown to him by criterion. So before buying I have started borrowing from library.
The man has impeccable taste.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:36 AM   #64218
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Originally Posted by Abdrewes View Post
(I'm waiting for Dr Svet to come and cruuuush this post)
I'm waiting for something much more dramatic, a crack in the time/space continuum perhaps...
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:40 AM   #64219
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I'm waiting for something much more dramatic, a crack in the time/space continuum perhaps...
What would make you say that? I just saw (and really dug) Southland Tales. It really must be the end of the world.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:46 AM   #64220
diskspinner diskspinner is online now
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The man has impeccable taste.
May be, but liking everything is too safe and doesn't really help the readers.
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