The Criterion Collection

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Frances Ha as a character never whines, not once.

I didn't say she did (although she does.) Was mainly referring to her roommates, the random friends she meets on the street, etc.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

I didn't say she did (although she does.) Was mainly referring to her roommates, the random friends she meets on the street, etc.

When does she whine? She is completely lighthearted just about all of the time. And other than her first two roomies, who do nil, everybody is getting on just fine with their lives (except for Frances of course).

If you are just using hyperbole, that's fine. But I found the character work to be very involving (especially the relationship between Sophie and Frances).

I discussed it at length in my write up.

Best film of 2013 so far for me (and I've seen about 60 theatrically)

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

When does she whine? She is completely lighthearted just about all of the time. And other than her first two roomies, who do nil, everybody is getting on just fine with their lives (except for Frances of course).

If you are just using hyperbole, that's fine. But I found the character work to be very involving (especially the relationship between Sophie and Frances).

I discussed it at length in my write up.

Best film of 2013 so far for me (and I've seen about 60 theatrically)

I recall her whining about her boyfriend in the very beginning of the film. She whines about her best friend's antics often as well.

I'm not using hyperbole. The film, from my viewpoint, was about self-indulgent people that borrow money (even though they're living in gigantic New York City apartments) from their parents with almost zero gratitude and spend it freely on non-productive interests. It's not new ground.

And my viewpoint on the French New Wave angle stands. It feels like Baumbach uses certain movements and angles just because he's fond of that period (and it's somewhat "hip"), not because the scene calls for it. That's not to say the film is poorly shot; it's not. It's a huge step up from the mumblecore ground he's treading, but let's face it, that's not saying much. He needed to cool it with these devices.

I've seen this material done plenty of times - sometimes better, sometimes worse. Gerwig is great. She really is. I just would have preferred her talents been utilized with material that isn't agonizing.

Is it the worst thing I've seen theatrically this year? No, that would probably be Evil Dead - although, truth be told, I probably enjoyed a segment in that picture more than I did anything in this. It's definitely at the bottom of the barrel, though.

[Abdrewes]

Actually at the beginning she casually dismisses her boyfriend. He's out of the picture very fast and she doesn't dwell on it. In fact, HE'S the one whining, not Frances. (Just take a look at how she answers Sophie's call and how he then reacts)

As far as influences, I found it to be a sweet homage which still worked as its film. It wears its influences on its sleeve, then manages to do something interesting with it. It's a lovely film that intelligently explores a 27 year old's path to maturity during a turning point in her life. The two final scenes were both lighthearted and resonant.

Regardless how many times a similar story has been told, it still has relevance because there are twenty something's out there in need of direction. Books havent completely foregone the topic, so why should film? If you think that's a subject not worth exploring, then we just don't see eye to eye.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

If you think that's a subject not worth exploring, then we just don't see eye to eye.

A lot of people don't see eye to eye, and that's what makes this website so interesting.

Regardless of the different opinions and viewpoints on certain films, I still respect what is being said.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Actually at the beginning she casually dismisses her boyfriend. He's out of the picture very fast and she doesn't dwell on it. In fact, HE'S the one whining, not Frances. (Just take a look at how she answers Sophie's call and how he reacts)

As far as influences, I found it to be a sweet homage which still worked as its film. It wears its influences on its sleeve, then manages to do something interesting with it. It's a lovely film that intelligently explores a 27 year old's path to maturity during a turning point in her life. The two final scenes were both lighthearted and resonant.

Regardless how many times a similar story has been told, it still has relevance because there are twenty something's out there in need of direction. Books havent completely foregone the topic, so why should film? If you think that's a subject not worth exploring, then we just don't see eye to eye.

I think it's pretty clear we don't see eye to eye if you think this is the best thing you've seen theatrically this year. This is a forum. Other people have different views on film. That's why we discuss things. Nothing to take personally (not saying you are; just saying).

They both whine in the beginning. And my point still stands about her constantly whining about her best friend.

We're going to have to agree to disagree there. I found nothing intelligent about what it was doing; any answers it gave have been done, and they were done in the most simplistic of ways. I would hope any twenty somethings that see this wouldn't seek it out for direction in their lives. It's not something that should be taken that seriously.

Whatever influence it wears, the dramatic or sincere moments become inert.

It did nothing for me. I groaned during the beginning, hoping it wouldn't be another one of those films. To my dismay, it was. For you (and many critics), it wasn't. I'm in the minority with this one, most definitely.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

A lot of people don't see eye to eye, and that's what makes this website so interesting.

Regardless of the different opinions and viewpoints on certain films, I still respect what is being said.

I mean not seeing eye to eye that exploring these New York types and a belated coming of age story (or second coming of age) is a worthy subject. Everybody has their own personal turnoffs, I think this so happens to be Sammy's turn off.

Don't be so lax, Scott. You got too little fight. You rated this film 5/5, stand up for it!
------------------

listening to a Michael Mann commentary track right now

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I mean not seeing eye to eye that exploring these New York types and a belated coming of age story (or second coming of age) is a worthy subject. Everybody has their own personal turnoffs, I think this so happens to be Sammy's turn off.

Just to clarify, I do like these things. I just think the formula that was executed is tired. I'm a sucker for a refreshing coming of age story.

And I'd like to point out that, thus far, this year has been so much better than last year for film.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I mean not seeing eye to eye that exploring these New York types and a belated coming of age story (or second coming of age) is a worthy subject. Everybody has their own personal turnoffs, I think this so happens to be Sammy's turn off.

Don't be so lax, Scott. You got too little fight. You rated this film 5/5, stand up for it!
------------------

listening to a Michael Mann commentary track right now

As I've stated in the past, I didn't enjoy the film from the beginning, but as each minute passed, I found it to be better and better, hence making it one of my favorite films of the year. I can relate to Frances in numerous ways, especially because the thing that made Frances stand out so much was her uniqueness. I can see where Sammy is coming from though, and I respect his opinion and his thoughts on the movie.

I'm not in the mood to fight. I understand that the film is not for everybody - hell not many films are for everybody. However, I don't want him to feel forced to like something he doesn't. You definitely contribute a lot to the forums and you give some good insights into various films, but I don't really see a point in going back and forth about this because nothing is going to change.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by iScottie

As I've stated in the past, I didn't enjoy the film from the beginning, but as each minute passed, I found it to be better and better, hence making it one of my favorite films of the year. I can relate to Frances in numerous ways, especially because the thing that made Frances stand out so much was her uniqueness. I can see where Sammy is coming from though, and I respect his opinion and his thoughts on the movie.

Just curious, what is your favorite film of the year?

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

Just curious, what is your favorite film of the year?

Mud, followed closely by Before Midnight

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

As I've stated in the past, I didn't enjoy the film from the beginning, but as each minute passed, I found it to be better and better, hence making it one of my favorite films of the year. I can relate to Frances in numerous ways, especially because the thing that made Frances stand out so much was her uniqueness. I can see where Sammy is coming from though, and I respect his opinion and his thoughts on the movie.

I'm not in the mood to fight. I understand that the film is not for everybody - hell not many films are for everybody. However, I don't want him to feel forced to like something he doesn't. You definitely contribute a lot to the forums and you give some good insights into various films, but I don't really see a point in going back and forth about this because nothing is going to change.

We will be butting heads. But I just wanted a few concrete examples of Frances "whining". I touch on the matter in my review:

Under less capable hands, the film could have devolved into navel gazing at this point, but fortunately Baumach never boxes Frances' sociable personality

______________

Holy crap! Michael Mann indeed does his research!

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Mud, followed closely by Before Midnight

I found Before Midnight to be a step down from the last two. I thought some of the issues brought up in the hotel room were kind of contrived. We know they are going to stay together, so there wasn't a big reason to invest in all the drama. What made me give it such a glowing review was simply the chemistry between the two actors.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I found Before Midnight to be a step down from the last two. I thought some of the issues brought up in the hotel room were kind of contrived. We know they are going to stay together, so there wasn't a big reason to invest in all the drama. What made me give it such a glowing review was simply the chemistry between the two actors.

Before Midnight was a lot more realistic than the previous two entries. It's very hard for two people to be together for so long without their share of troubles. Both individuals had to take on new roles and responsibilities and with the extra burden and stress weighing down on them, marital dissatisfaction was inevitable.

The hotel scene was so powerful because it was very real. I've seen couples bickering the same way that these two did, so Linklater definitely did not hold anything back. Was the ending a bit cliché? Yes, but I think it worked because both individuals had been comfortable with one another for so long and they remembered what made them fall in love with each other in the first place.

[SammyJankis]

Not going to bother getting into another film debate, but Before Midnight had just as much to offer - if not more - than the first two. The hotel scene is the furthest thing from contrived; it plays out authentically, building up from the very first scene of the film. It was the inevitable explosion, one that was the subtle undercurrent through every conversation. Truly one of the finest acted films I've seen over the past few years.

I'd say it's on par with Before Sunset, which in my mind is a near-perfect film. The writing, acting, and look is as strong as it's ever been. It's difficult to say I like it as much as Sunset, because it's a much more difficult viewing. It's inventive with the formula, thematic relevant on the broadest level, and achieves a level of authenticity that is rare not just in romantic cinema but in cinema, period.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Before Midnight was a lot more realistic than the previous two entries. It's very hard for two people to be together for so long without their share of troubles. Both individuals had to take on new roles and responsibilities and with the extra burden and stress weighing down on them, marital dissatisfaction was inevitable.

The hotel scene was so powerful because it was very real. I've seen couples bickering the same way that these two did, so Linklater definitely did not hold anything back. Was the ending a bit cliché? Yes, but I think it worked because both individuals had been comfortable with one another for so long and they remembered what made them fall in love with each other in the first place.

Specifically, I knew that exact backwards tracking shot would be used for the ending, so that kind of undercut being invested in issues

[Show spoiler] (did you sleep with that girl?)

that have been covered many times before (though, not with this level of realism).

I love Before Sunset, specifically because it feels so ethereal, metaphysical even. I just love how that film, specifically, builds off of the character's memory.

[Visco.]

What would be a better blind buy, Modern Times or The Gold Rush?

I'm leaning towards Modern Times.

[Jett Rink]

Originally Posted by Visco.

What would be a better blind buy, Modern Times or The Gold Rush?

I'm leaning towards Modern Times.

I'd start with Gold Rush.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Jett Blu

I'd start with Gold Rush.

As would I.

[Edward J Grug III]

Originally Posted by Visco.

What would be a better blind buy, Modern Times or The Gold Rush?

I'm leaning towards Modern Times.

I haven't seen Gold Rush yet, but Modern Times is fantastic. (I am guessing Gold Rush is great too)