The Criterion Collection

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

a quick check indicates that there are 92 episodes of Mad Men at an average of 47 minutes per episode. that's 72 hours plus. in my lifetime (granted that I've only started in earnest to watch art house and classic maybe 5 years or so ago,) I have had the pleasure of giving my time to the work of Yasujiro Ozu on 4 occasions, so that's less than 8 hours.

I'm sure it's a fine show. I choose not to even get my feet wet w/ Mad Men, Breaking Bad, or anything else because I cannot commit myself to spending that much time in front of the television.

I watched the entire first season of Mad Men, and started watching Season 2. I got through the first S2 episode, and realized that while I admired it a good deal, I wasn't really enjoying it. Breaking Bad hit me the same way, and I gave it up after just a few episodes. People have tried to convince me to watch it in the time since, but I can't bring myself to watch 60-something episodes that I'm not convinced I'm going to like. There was one person who argued, "You have to give it enough time; it really starts getting good in Season 3." My reaction to that was "So what you're saying is I have to spend the time watching 26 not-really-all-that-good episodes in order to get to that point?"

I've said this many a time, but I've come to the realization that I'll never read all the books worth reading, never listen to all the music worth listening to, never see all the movies worth seeing, and never watch all the TV shows worth watching. So I'll just go along, taking in what I choose to take in, and not worrying about missing out on something else. It may well be the case that I would hold Breaking Bad in the same high regard as I do The Wire. But on the other hand, if I don't ever watch it, I don't think I'll leave this world with regret at not having done so.

For quite some time, I've tried (and sometimes fail...my bad) to keep from telling anyone that they must see this or must read that. I tend to get annoyed when someone, with good intentions, tries to push something on me, so I try not to push things on someone else. I try only to say, "This is worth the time," and leave it to them to decide whether to accept my opinion or not.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by octagon

Maybe I'm misreading this but how can you say anything about the level of quality - let alone say tv is just stupid - when you haven't watched any of the best shows over the past fifteen years?

yes. you are misreading.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by jayembee

There's a lot of TV in the past 20-25 years that is terrible, there's a lot that is fair-to-middlin', and there's a lot that is good, and there is definitely some that is worth the investment of time. Of course, not everyone is going to agree on what fits into which of those categories.

HBO's The Wire is often held up as the best TV show ever made. I can't speak to that, as there are a lot of shows I haven't watched, but I can say that in roughly 55 years of watching TV it's the best TV show I've ever seen, barring only Kieślowski's Dekalog. One critic described it as perhaps television's equivalent of the Great American Novel. I don't think that's hyperbole.

Two western/crime drama mash-ups that are worth looking at are Justified and Longmire.

And I'd argue that anyone who is into film noir owes it to themselves to watch the Marvel/Netflix series Jessica Jones.

I meant to add an "all" in there. In the past I was a movies only viewer. Those shows changed that. Granted, of all the shows I've seen, only a small handful stand up against the best movies (Deadwood, Twin Peaks, Planet Earth to name a few), but I'm at least now of the mind that they can be equals once in a blue moon

[octagon]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

yes. you are misreading.

Thanks for clearing that up

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I watched the entire first season of Mad Men, and started watching Season 2. I got through the first S2 episode, and realized that while I admired it a good deal, I wasn't really enjoying it. Breaking Bad hit me the same way, and I gave it up after just a few episodes. People have tried to convince me to watch it in the time since, but I can't bring myself to watch 60-something episodes that I'm not convinced I'm going to like. There was one person who argued, "You have to give it enough time; it really starts getting good in Season 3." My reaction to that was "So what you're saying is I have to spend the time watching 26 not-really-all-that-good episodes in order to get to that point?"

I've said this many a time, but I've come to the realization that I'll never read all the books worth reading, never listen to all the music worth listening to, never see all the movies worth seeing, and never watch all the TV shows worth watching. So I'll just go along, taking in what I choose to take in, and not worrying about missing out on something else. It may well be the case that I would hold Breaking Bad in the same high regard as I do The Wire. But on the other hand, if I don't ever watch it, I don't think I'll leave this world with regret at not having done so.

when I gave Luther a spin for like 5 episodes, that is how I felt - it was fine, but I wasn't exactly enjoying it. ..and yes, we won't live long enough to consume all the art that we choose and if I "don't know what I'm missin'," well.. ignorance is bliss.

btw.. I don't know if I've ever said so, Jay, but you are my favorite poster here. the intellect, the encyclopedia knowledge of who owns rights to what, your recommendations.

don't know how to articulate beyond that, but I hold what you say in higher regard than anyone else here. so, The Wire is now something I'll try to see.

[theater dreamer]

It seems everybody around here misreads his posts.

Originally Posted by octagon

Thanks for clearing that up

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by octagon

Thanks for clearing that up

read again, octagon. I'm not going to get into a classic circular argument with you when you're not reading posts in their entirety and choose to take me out of context, so you get one of these, too :

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I meant to add an "all" in there. In the past I was a movies only viewer. Those shows changed that. Granted, of all the shows I've seen, only a small handful stand up against the best movies (Deadwood, Twin Peaks, Planet Earth to name a few), but I'm at least now of the mind that they can be equals once in a blue moon

And sometimes in some ways TV can even be superior.

While I can't say it would have been impossible to turn Band of Brothers into a theatrical film (or trilogy or what have you) I can definitely say the mini-series format was ideal for it.

And it's as good as any war movie and better than a lot of them.

[Banned User]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I think the more likely reason the new restoration hasn't come out in Region A is because Lionsgate has the rights to it (as part of their lock on the StudioCanal catalog), and no longer seems interested in releasing any of the SC titles on physical media.

This has been pissing me off for years. They lock away a ton of amazing titles that Region A people will never get to see for no reason. Wouldn't it be better if SC made something off these films instead of leaving them parked with Lionsgate which has no intention of releasing them. Criterion would release an amazing Ran Bluray I'm sure. Not to mention a favorite of mine The Raven by Cocteau or The Fallen idol. As a consumer I should not be forced to buy UK discs to see these amazing films.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

read again, octagon.

No.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by theater dreamer

It seems everybody around here misreads his posts.

if you want to debate me on something, bring it up. just be respectful. I don't know that I've always been that in the past, but I try to now.

the written word cannot always convey what inflection and intonation can. if you want to take up Bates argument from the last page, then go for it.

no offense to him whatsoever, but what he asked me made no sense whatsoever given the context. I'm sure he misread. like 100% positive.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by octagon

No.

Bravo!

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

if you want to debate me on something, bring it up. just be respectful. I don't know that I've always been that in the past, but I try to now.

the written word cannot always convey what inflection and intonation can. if you want to take up Bates argument from the last page, then go for it.

no offense to him whatsoever, but what he asked me made no sense whatsoever given the context. I'm sure he misread. like 100% positive.

I got the same impression he got from your post

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by theater dreamer

Oh, and the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica is really a drama/sci fi hybrid, so I would definitely include it. I grew up on the original (met Dirk Benedict when I was a kid visiting my Aunt in San Francisco). And while TOS will always have a special place in my heart, the Ronald Moore/David Eick version is step above. It's the best science fiction show in television history, imo.

Yes, I watch a lot of television, lol.

Depends on what criteria you're using. Personally, I think the best SF show in television history is the US Max Headroom series. To me, science fiction is at its best when it uses the idea of an advancement in science or technology and showing how that affects the human condition. Max used the advancement of Information Technology to talk about commercialism, war, education, religion, politics, reproduction, law, and so on. It was all amazingly precognitive as well. What it showed us in 1987 was what people 10 years later were predicting would come about from the creation of the "information superhighway", which is pretty much what we have now.

As a drama, the BSG reboot was certainly better (Max was less a drama than a satirical dramedy). More recently, there's a show that debuted at the tail end of last year on Syfy called The Expanse that is also up there.

My second favorite SF series of all time is a fairly obscure Canadian/South African co-production from 2005 called Charlie Jade, which gave us a compelling noir story in the context of three (and possibly more) alternate universes.

Another recent Syfy series that's been a surprise is 12 Monkeys, which takes Gilliam's film and runs with it full bore. It also answers the question of whether there's ever been as entertaining a character as Ian McShane's All Swearengen from Deadwood. On 12 Monkeys, Emily Hampshire just shines as the nutjob Jennifer Goines -- the sex-changed equivalent of Brad Pitt's role in the movie.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I really like Cowboy, Johnny Guitar, Man of the West, The Ox-Bow Incident, El Dorado, and The Professionals.

Man of the West and The Ox-Bow Incident get bonus points for being "western noir."

Cowboy was directed by Delmer Daves, who also helmed 3:10 to Yuma and Jubal.

I also forgot to mention that I watched the Blu-ray of Sergio Leone's Duck, You Sucker for the first time, after having seen the DVD many years ago. This really is a brilliant Leone film all around, and my already high opinion soared into the stratosphere with this latest viewing.

I was pretty disappointed in Man of the West. It's OK, but its ambitions aren't at all matched by its execution. It's also absolutely glacial.

[theater dreamer]

I'm not looking for a debate, bwdowiak, but I've read all your posts, and I came up with the exact same conclusion he did.

One minute, you're stating that "the violence, even on TV shows, is appalling".

My first question--if you haven't watched a single episode of any of the great dramas on television for the last decade-and-a-half, how can you comment as to the level of violence on tv? Those two statements are incongruous.

Secondly, there's your statement about TV being stupid, copied verbatim. Seems pretty unambiguous to me, and the only reason you've given for that statement seems to be that it takes too much of a time commitment. That's fine for you. You're free to do whatever you choose with your time, but if you choose not to invest several hours to a series each season, that doesn't make the medium of television, or the shows on it, stupid. And, quite frankly, it's a little insulting to the people who watch a lot of television.

I don't really like most horror films, but I would never say the genre is "stupid" because it's not for me.

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

agree 100%.. the violence, even on TV shows is appalling

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

TV is just stupid. I know that this is supposedly the era of great television, but I'm taking a pass on all of it. Name a "great" TV drama from the last 15 years of so... I haven't seen a single episode.

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

if you want to debate me on something, bring it up. just be respectful. I don't know that I've always been that in the past, but I try to now.

the written word cannot always convey what inflection and intonation can. if you want to take up Bates argument from the last page, then go for it.

no offense to him whatsoever, but what he asked me made no sense whatsoever given the context. I'm sure he misread. like 100% positive.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Another recent Syfy series that's been a surprise is 12 Monkeys, which takes Gilliam's film and runs with it full bore. It also answers the question of whether there's ever been as entertaining a character as Ian McShane's All Swearengen from Deadwood. On 12 Monkeys, Emily Hampshire just shines as the nutjob Jennifer Goines -- the sex-changed equivalent of Brad Pitt's role in the movie.

I had some problems with 12 Monkeys (not the least of which is I have a real hard time with post-apocalyptic worlds in which everyone has perfectly straight white teeth) but yeah, she was pretty fantastic.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by theater dreamer

Oh, and the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica is really a drama/sci fi hybrid, so I would definitely include it. I grew up on the original (met Dirk Benedict when I was a kid visiting my Aunt in San Francisco). And while TOS will always have a special place in my heart, the Ronald Moore/David Eick version is step above. It's the best science fiction show in television history, imo.

I vote for the original series of The Twilight Zone as the best science fiction show in television history.

In fact, I vote for the original series of The Twilight Zone as the best show in television history, period.

Every time I revisit this series, I'm stunned at how relevant the episodes still are. I mean, we Americans are practically experiencing a real-life incarnation of "The Monsters are Due on Maple Street" these days.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by biglou114

All this TV talk and no one mentions Fargo?!

There are a lot of good things that fall by the wayside. Yes, Fargo is an absolute treat.

In my talking about The Wire, I should've made a comment about its creator, David Simon. His work as a whole is extraordinary. His pre-Wire series for HBO, The Corner is also excellent, as his follow-up series, Generation Kill, Treme, and Show Me a Hero.

And he wrote the non-fiction book that was the basis for the best crime drama of the 90s, Homicide: Life on the Street. Speaking of which, my very favorite episode of that show, "The Heart of a Saturday Night" turned out to be directed by Criterion's Whit Stillman. It's the primary reason why I've wanted to check out Stillman's films.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by theater dreamer

I'm not looking for a debate, bwdowiak, but I've read all your posts, and I came up with the exact same conclusion he did.

One minute, you're stating that "the violence, even on TV shows, is appalling".

My first question--if you haven't watched a single episode of any of the great dramas on television for the last decade-and-a-half, how can you comment as to the level of violence on tv? Those two statements are incongruous.

Secondly, there's your statement about TV being stupid, copied verbatim. Seems pretty unambiguous to me, and the only reason you've given for that statement seems to be that it takes too much of a time commitment. That's fine for you. You're free to do whatever you choose with your time, but if you choose not to invest several hours to a series each season, that doesn't make the medium of television, or the shows on it, stupid.

then you had to have missed this from the first post you quoted me on -

"edit: what I mean to say is that the amount of violence that is considered 'okay' for television is appalling."

"great" is a subjective term. like I said, I had my arm twisted to watch 2 shows that were said to be "great" and they weren't.

my comment that "tv is garbage" came in the context of bringing up two TV shows... one is called Naked and Afraid and the other, Naked Dating. care to defend the merits of those two shows?

you also fail to bring up the fact that in more than one post, I said something to the effect of "I'm sure they are good shows."

does that clear it up?