The Criterion Collection

[SeanJoyce]

Originally Posted by Drake2222

the Beery version is probably the best of the Treasure Island films

Ahem, that belongs to the Heston/Bale iteration, matey.

[Drake2222]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

Ahem, that belongs to the Heston/Bale iteration, matey.

I certainly enjoy the Heston version as well, it’s very well done for a TV movie, but I definitely put the Beery version over it, much more epic. But we can agree to disagree. Arrr!

It does annoy me though that the Heston dvd is cropped from 4:3 to 1:85, I mean c’mon give us both versions at least

[GeoffOliver]

Originally Posted by Drake2222

the Beery version is probably the best of the Treasure Island films

This version says hi:

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

This version says hi:

[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]

[Drake2222]

Originally Posted by Reddington

Both are tremendous adaptations and films. [or the Filmedia BD of Oliver Twist (locked, but you just bought a region-free player ). Both are very strong presentations - especially the former.

Just curious I see Blu-ray.com lists that French filmedia blu ray of OT as 111 min, is that accurate? Isn’t the regular film length 116 min?

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by Drake2222

Just curious I see Blu-ray.com lists that French filmedia blu ray of OT as 111 min, is that accurate? Isn’t the regular film length 116 min?

There's some strange things with the this release, but let me make an educated guess until maybe someone with the disc pops up.

US sites list the film 116 minutes. - true

The 2011 French BD is listed as 111 minutes with a 1080i encode. I can't find any more information on this release
The 2012 French BD is listed as 111 minutes -- the bluray database says its 1080p BUT the rear cover I find has a strange entry 1080p - 50i/s and certainly lists the length of 111min

AND under the region coding section is a comment that says it played on 2 Samsung Region A players, but not on a Sony BD players. This almost confirms that it's a Rebion A/B or Region A/B/C 1080i/50 encode and not 1080p/24.

111 minutes would be the old PAL speed which would suggest a 1080/50 encode based on that . I can't find anymore information on pitch levels, pitch correction, tempo speedups, etc.

OTread.jpg

[Drake2222]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

There's some strange things with the this release, but let me make an educated guess until maybe someone with the disc pops up.

US sites list the film 116 minutes. - true

The 2011 French BD is listed as 111 minutes with a 1080i encode. I can't find any more information on this release
The 2012 French BD is listed as 111 minutes -- the bluray database says its 1080p BUT the rear cover I find has a strange entry 1080p - 50i/s and certainly lists the length of 111min

AND under the region coding section is a comment that says it played on 2 Samsung Region A players, but not on a Sony BD players. This almost confirms that it's a Rebion A/B or Region A/B/C 1080i/50 encode and not 1080p/24.

111 minutes would be the old PAL speed which would suggest a 1080/50 encode based on that . I can't find anymore information on pitch levels, pitch correction, tempo speedups, etc.

Attachment 219226

Excellent sleuthing! Very odd, guess Criterion will just have to release it

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by Drake2222

Very odd, guess Criterion will just have to release it

Several possibilities -- the length could be wrong on the cover, but I found a YouTube video which is 111 minutes and purports that it's a Bluray.

If someone has the DVD they could compare and if they cut 5 minutes out it somewhere OR if the Youtube video runs faster than the DVD. If the disc was 24p or 60i both the Samsung and Sony would have played the disc.

I don't have the DVD though I bet I've had that DVD set in my cart a dozen times during pretty much every Criterion 50% sale. If I didn't already have Lord of the Flies and figured at some point that just had to release the others.

25fps wasn't even a film format UK from that era, was it?

[theater dreamer]

The timing discrepancy could also be due to film editing. In his intro to Oliver Twist, Ben Mankiewicz alluded to the fact that Lean’s film wasn’t seen in its unaltered state in America until 1970. Dickens’ novel, which was released serially (2 chapters every month in Bentley’s Miscellany), repeatedly referenced the character Fagin as “the Jew”, which raised anti-Semitic cries from the public, causing Dickens to edit later, as-of-yet unpublished chapters, to omit these references. Well, Lean received heavy criticism when the film was released because of the nose prosthetic Sir Alec Guinness wore. As such, several minutes of his performance was cut out.

I’m wondering which print this blu-Ray was sourced from. Is it possible that either they did not have access to the full, unedited film, or that the film source for the unedited release was in bad shape?

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by theater dreamer

The timing discrepancy could also be due to film editing. In his intro to Oliver Twist, Ben Mankiewicz alluded to the fact that Lean’s film wasn’t seen in its unaltered state in America until 1970. Dickens’ novel, which was released serially (2 chapters every month in Bentley’s Miscellany), repeatedly referenced the character Fagin as “the Jew”, which raised anti-Semitic cries from the public, causing Dickens to edit later, as-of-yet unpublished chapters, to omit these references. Well, Lean received heavy criticism when the film was released because of the nose prosthetic Sir Alec Guinness wore. As such, several minutes of his performance was cut out.

I’m wondering which print this blu-Ray was sourced from. Is it possible that either they did not have access to the full, unedited film, or that the film source for the unedited release was in bad shape?

I thought it might be since there are other lengths 105 and 110 minutes listed from Germany and UK on imdb. I would have thought this many years later it would have been the original though that still leaves the apparent 50i encode if that is confirmed.

Unfortunately if might take someone running the US DVD and French BD side by side to see if there are parts cut out. The 111/116 4% difference and the encode still is suspicious.

I;ve asked in the French thread if anyone has any thoughts, but that original thread was only a handful of posts so maybe nobody with much to say.

[nitin]

There is zero chance of the French blu being 1080i/60. It will either be 1080i/50 or 1080p/24.

A number of French blu rays have been released in 1080i/50 so it’s also not that uncommon.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by Drake2222

Just curious I see Blu-ray.com lists that French filmedia blu ray of OT as 111 min, is that accurate? Isn’t the regular film length 116 min?

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Unfortunately if might take someone running the US DVD and French BD side by side to see if there are parts cut out. The 111/116 4% difference and the encode still is suspicious.

I have both, but it's been quite a while since I watched either. I can't recall noticing any edits in the French BD. If I have time this weekend, I'll run a comparison.

Having said that, the 4% difference does suggest a speed up. I have very limited knowledge of encoding technology, but I think I'm right in saying that the French SECAM broadcast standard used PAL as a production standard. Could that mean that the French BD is based off a PAL transfer?

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by nitin

There is zero chance of the French blu being 1080i/60. It will either be 1080i/50 or 1080p/24.

A number of French blu rays have been released in 1080i/50 so it’s also not that uncommon.

Understood, but assuming that poster was correct and his Sony wouldn't play it, but 2 samsung would it would have to be 50i -- assuming the Sony wasn't malfunctioning.

[yoloswegmaster420]

John Woo's wuxia film Last Hurrah for Chivalry is the film of the week for the Criterion Channel (alongside Umbrellas of Cherbourg) and it opens with the Janus logo. This pretty much confirms a disc release in the near future.

[Drake2222]

Originally Posted by yoloswegmaster420

John Woo's wuxia film Last Hurrah for Chivalry is the film of the week for the Criterion Channel (alongside Umbrellas of Cherbourg) and it opens with the Janus logo. This pretty much confirms a disc release in the near future.

That would be great! Along with Jackie Chan and the Venom Mob movies, LHfC is one of my favorites, plus Heroes Two, The Master, Avenging Eagle et al

[nitin]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Understood, but assuming that poster was correct and his Sony wouldn't play it, but 2 samsung would it would have to be 50i -- assuming the Sony wasn't malfunctioning.

Some players automatically convert 50hz signals to 60hz don’t they? It could have been 1080p/24 I suppose and the back cover and listing are incorrect.

[Xtempo]

saw a post on facebook. Wish I could go I love Ozu.
https://www.criterion.com/current/po...new-live-score

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by nitin

Some players automatically convert 50hz signals to 60hz don’t they? It could have been 1080p/24 I suppose and the back cover and listing are incorrect.

Plenty of players can play 50 either directly or convert to 60hz (Samsung and LG usually will), pre SP4 Sony's can't (usually won't even load the disc).

That why the comment Reg A Samsungs being able to play the disc and the Region A Sony being unable to pretty much tell you this disc is REgion A/B/(?C) and 50i assuming the Sony wasn't malfunctioning.

"ABaglivi Jan 11, 2016
Region A (untested), Region B (confirmed), Region C (untested)

Comment
Plays on Samsung Region A players (two different ones) but not on Sony Region A player!"

If it was 24p then both brands would play it.
If it was 60i (which a French produced disc would rarely if ever release) both brands would play it
If it was Region B locked neither would play it

All this is speculation based on the few things posted and I'd love to get confirmation from someone with the discs in hand

It's just odd that the 2012 Opening Distribution is listed as 1080i 116minutes and the 2014 Filmmedia is listed 1080p and 111 minutes though the rear cover of the 2014 release and the user postings certainly throw that into doubt.

I tried to synch up the Youtube versions "Criterion DVD 116 min" and "Bluray version 111min" to see if I could find anything. I couldn't find any cuts in the 20-30 minutes or so I watched, but the YT of the Bluray certainly seemed to be running 4% faster. Obviously far far from definitive and really interested in hearing what Reddington has to say over the weekend

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

[Show spoiler]Plenty of players can play 50 either directly or convert to 60hz (Samsung and LG usually will), pre SP4 Sony's can't (usually won't even load the disc).

That why the comment Reg A Samsungs being able to play the disc and the Region A Sony being unable to pretty much tell you this disc is REgion A/B/(?C) and 50i assuming the Sony wasn't malfunctioning.

"ABaglivi Jan 11, 2016
Region A (untested), Region B (confirmed), Region C (untested)

Comment
Plays on Samsung Region A players (two different ones) but not on Sony Region A player!"

If it was 24p then both brands would play it.
If it was 60i (which a French produced disc would rarely if ever release) both brands would play it
If it was Region B locked neither would play it

All this is speculation based on the few things posted and I'd love to get confirmation from someone with the discs in hand

It's just odd that the 2012 Opening Distribution is listed as 1080i 116minutes and the 2014 Filmmedia is listed 1080p and 111 minutes though the rear cover of the 2014 release and the user postings certainly throw that into doubt.

I tried to synch up the Youtube versions "Criterion DVD 116 min" and "Bluray version 111min" to see if I could find anything. I couldn't find any cuts in the 20-30 minutes or so I watched, but the YT of the Bluray certainly seemed to be running 4% faster.

Obviously far far from definitive and really interested in hearing what Reddington has to say over the weekend

I've not had time to compare the Criterion DVD and "Filmedia" BD presentations, but I did just put the BD in my Sony region free player (S1500RF) and it identifies it as 1080/60p with a run time of 111 minutes (quick pic below). Also, I took a pic of the BD rear cover info (also below), which states 1080p - 50i/s. (Edit: Identical to the rear cover you already posted).

I checked my Amazon.fr order history, and it confirms I ordered the 2014 "Filmedia" release; however, Amazon.fr also identifies the 2012 release as "Filmedia" and not "Opening Distribution" - and also with a run time of 111 minutes, not 116 minutes as stated on this site. Of course, Amazon product/spec descriptions are notorious for being incorrect or incomplete, but it does lead me to wonder if both French releases are actually identical.

Interestingly, the French BD rear cover carries the "ITV Studios" logo - which released the region-free Great Expectations in the UK. But there's no UK release of Oliver Twist.

As I said, I'm no expert on encode technology, but maybe this info helps.

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by Reddington

I've not had time to compare the Criterion DVD and "Filmedia" BD presentations, but I did just put the BD in my Sony region free player (S1500RF) and it identifies it as 1080/60p with a run time of 111 minutes (quick pic below). Also, I took a pic of the BD rear cover info (also below), which states 1080p - 50i/s.

Thanks for the work. That's certainly the same UPC from teh DVD Profiler rear cover above. I can't find anything on the 2012 release though the front cover appears identical.

The 1080/60 designation would certainly tell it's interlaced on the disc, but doesn't distinguish native 60i vs 50i that the player converted. If your player could be forced to output Disc Source AND Tv were 50 compatible then the INFO screen might read it as 50, but thats a lot of ifs.

A BDinfo scan would probably tell the difference, but the chance of a Fr disc being native 60i isn't high. The timing difference is still interesting to know why 111 vs 116, but that would probably take a bit more free time to unwind. At this point, I'm pretty sure the French item is just a sped up master whether it's pitch corrected (I think it is) or not

The UPC numbers also are strange
3530941041406 when googled bring up a bunch of listings for the 2012 release -- 111 min, same 1080p 50i/s and Filmmedia label

3662207005799 show up a 2014 release with different UPC, but pretty much identical with what appears to be a sticker with the new UPC placed over the old UPC confusing things even more. Not sure if that's supposed to be a 3rd Release, or if they just re-released the 2012 with a new UPC and the 116 min is actually a myth and Amazon is just selling the 2012 disc under the 2014 listing since they're essentially identical