The Criterion Collection

[shadowofdreams]

Originally Posted by dwk

Almost every Indicator release uses a master supplied by the licensor.

One of the reasons that some Criterion's are lighter in extras is that they really try an avoid redundant content, so interviews are often cut tighter than those on other labels.(I seen someone recently mention an Indicator title, I want to say it is Night of the Demon, has two pieces on the music that are almost identical in content. That sort of redundancy strikes me as padding as the two pieces should've been cut together into one featurette.)

That's one of the other big things that I was hit with, that Criterion, while seeming to have less content, makes a point of making its content denser. I remember reading that they record 1.5x the length of a movie for their commentary then edit down to make sure the commentary is constantly informative. Criterion also tries to make its special features larger and more all encompassing while Indicator and Arrow enjoy special features that act as windows into small subjects, such as visual essays on a jewish reading of American Werewolf or on little known actresses in the Dietrich/Sternberg movies, while Criterion would prefer to have a larger retrospective on the director or on the genre as a whole

[JEDGAR1000]

Originally Posted by jrsl76

Great movie. You should get acquainted.

Originally Posted by ponytail

one of Fuller's best, imo

Thanks, I'll be sure to check it out.

[jrcasey1960]

As much as I love Criterion, Indicator did a much better job with their Dietrich/von Sternberg supplements. I don't classify Anna Mae Wong as a lesser known actress, but I can see how some might. Also, Indicator uses original poster art on the covers. Have to admit that I bought the Criterion set as well.

[FragnitoM]

Originally Posted by jrcasey1960

As much as I love Criterion, Indicator did a much better job with their Dietrich/von Sternberg supplements. I don't classify Anna Mae Wong as a lesser known actress, but I can see how some might. Also, Indicator uses original poster art on the covers. Have to admit that I bought the Criterion set as well.

They also saw what Criterion were going to do first and had an opportunity to improve on it, right? I’m not sure “better job” is fair

[dwk]

Criterion also footed the bill for all but one of the transfers, which likely took a large chunk of their budget for the release.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by dwk

Criterion also footed the bill for all but one of the transfers, which likely took a large chunk of their budget for the release.

Pretty sure Indicator didn't get the restored masters for free or cheap. Criterion, Arrow, Indicator, Eureka, Vinegar Syndrome, Second Run, Arbelos/Cinelicious - they're all good labels. No one has a permanent place at the top. Any one of them can have the best release for a particular title. You can either choose to be a label loyalist or you can opt for whichever release suits you best.

[shadowofdreams]

Originally Posted by dwk

Criterion also footed the bill for all but one of the transfers, which likely took a large chunk of their budget for the release.

Criterion seems to put emphasis on getting the movie itself restored and presentable and putting what extras they can get on it, while places like Arrow and Indicator prefer to focus on selecting what movies are already restored or only need a small push or cash infusion and then using that extra budget to load it with extras and supplemental material. Both approaches are valid and the Dietrich/Sternberg set creates a best of both worlds scenario for the consumer.

Its hard because the restoration part of an archival release is arguably one of the most important but also least thankful parts (see the cinematographer-approved teal controversy and Kino Lorber's constant problems with masters) and its the part that has the least transparency on who EXACTLY is footing the bill at a quick glance, so it can be easy to misunderstand or misconstrue what the budget was and where it went on a release.

I think the other unsaid part of the Criterion special features is that they put alot of stuff up on the Channel that doesnt get as much attention, but they are putting out visual essays, introductions, interviews, etc every week, and that most likely takes up some of the production bandwidth at Criterion. I wonder if, with that content added to the list of what is produced by each distributor, it would be more equal

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by shadowofdreams

Ok, thank you. I'm working on a running theory that part of why Criterion seems to have less special features than your Arrows or Indicators is because they invest more in their own restorations, and what you said would make sense considering they've been doing more independent American cinema lately

Depends on your title. The Chaplin, Lloyd, Kurosawa, Bergman, The Breakfast Club, Silence of the Lambs, etc have as many special features as any Arrow or Indicator does.

[shadowofdreams]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Pretty sure Indicator didn't get the restored masters for free or cheap. Criterion, Arrow, Indicator, Eureka, Vinegar Syndrome, Second Run, Arbelos/Cinelicious - they're all good labels. No one has a permanent place at the top. Any one of them can have the best release for a particular title. You can either choose to be a label loyalist or you can opt for whichever release suits you best.

I completely agree; I've got tons of releases from all of those distributors and I respect their approaches. I just find the different approaches interesting to analyze as an art and a science in and of itself, and its fascinating to discuss the ethoses and approaches.

I do not want to diminish the work of any label. The amount of work and time and money and energy to get a single release out the door is daunting, and the fact that they do it so often and so consistently well is kind of incredible to me. I have a love of analysis on even the most small things and that love has me on media production right now, but if I come across as being down on any one label's work, I am sorry

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by jrcasey1960

As much as I love Criterion, Indicator did a much better job with their Dietrich/von Sternberg supplements. I don't classify Anna Mae Wong as a lesser known actress, but I can see how some might. Also, Indicator uses original poster art on the covers. Have to admit that I bought the Criterion set as well.

Let's agree that both of them did a good job with their releases and I plan on getting the Indicator version too for the exclusive extras. As said above, it doesn't have to be an either/or.

[SuperFlyHighGuy]

What CCs will folks be watching for Halloween season this year?

My plan:
Kwaidan
Kuroneko
Dressed to Kill
Night of the Living Dead
Hausu
Haxan (on DVD if I don't buy the blu in time)
Jigoku DVD

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting but those off the top.

[shadowofdreams]

Originally Posted by SuperFlyHighGuy

What CCs will folks be watching for Halloween season this year?

My plan:
Kwaidan
Kuroneko
Dressed to Kill
Night of the Living Dead
Hausu
Haxan (on DVD if I don't buy the blu in time)
Jigoku DVD

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting but those off the top.

Im going to try and watch Vampyr and read the included book with my edition, do a compare and contrast

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by SuperFlyHighGuy

What CCs will folks be watching for Halloween season this year?

My plan:
Kwaidan
Kuroneko
Dressed to Kill
Night of the Living Dead
Hausu
Haxan (on DVD if I don't buy the blu in time)
Jigoku DVD

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting but those off the top.

I have to admit that I don't really have many horror releated CC. Though, I might give Throne of Blood a watch even if its not a horror film. I've been meaning to get Kwaidan and Kuroneko, but they always gets the cut in my orders. I like both of them so hopefully TCM has them on in October and I have to try to get least one or both in a subsequent sale.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by shadowofdreams

Im going to try and watch Vampyr and read the included book with my edition, do a compare and contrast

Oh yeah, it's a very interesting book, for the differences between Dreyer's original script and the finished film, and, if you haven't already read it, Sheridan Le Fanu's vampire novella Carmilla, which was only a very bare inspiration for Vampyr.

[shadowofdreams]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Oh yeah, it's a very interesting book, for the differences between Dreyer's original script and the finished film, and, if you haven't already read it, Sheridan Le Fanu's vampire novella Carmilla, which was only a very bare inspiration for Vampyr.

Oooo, I will have to check that out, thank you for recommending it!

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

I might give Throne of Blood a watch even if its not a horror film.

It is a horror film by all means. It uses both psychological and supernatural horror.

[dwk]

Originally Posted by shadowofdreams

Oooo, I will have to check that out, thank you for recommending it!

In case you didn't know, Carmilla is included in the book that comes with Vampyr

[HenryHill]

Rosemary's Baby is a Halloween staple for me. Kuroneko and Onibaba as well.

[softunderbelly]

My Halloween lineup:
Island of Lost Souls
The Uninvited
Cat People
Eyes Without a Face
The Innocents
Carnival of Souls
Night of the Living Dead

[Knaldskalle]

Originally Posted by jrcasey1960

As much as I love Criterion, Indicator did a much better job with their Dietrich/von Sternberg supplements. I don't classify Anna Mae Wong as a lesser known actress, but I can see how some might. Also, Indicator uses original poster art on the covers. Have to admit that I bought the Criterion set as well.

Anna May Wong is my desktop background.

[Show spoiler]

I first saw this at the Museum of the Moving Image in New York. It holds a prominent spot on a wall of silent/golden era Hollywood actors.