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#4283 |
Blu-ray Duke
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Thanks given by: | mikematt101 (10-19-2020) |
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#4284 |
Blu-ray Samurai
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Thanks given by: | mikematt101 (10-19-2020) |
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#4285 |
Power Member
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Ok, umm, did anybody notice in Part I, starting from the scene where Marty writes Doc a letter, grain becomes a bit like a video noise? Too smeared and kind of distracting? I did not notice this when I first watched it (was late at night) but now I did and I was just wondering what am I seeing?
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#4286 |
Blu-ray Guru
Jul 2011
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Despite being in the UK I finally ordered the US set through Amazon.
Total Inc delivery and import deposit, £50 and a few change to the UK. Okay its not the $9.99 stuff that people are mentioning but I'm fine. I prefer the design of the US over the UK so for the same price as buying the UK set I can get the US delivered. For quick reference compare below. Last edited by david_blu; 10-18-2020 at 11:42 PM. |
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#4287 |
Blu-ray Guru
Jul 2011
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US vs UK
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#4288 |
Blu-ray Samurai
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We all know the differences between the sets by now. And try to use spoiler tags when quoting pictures.
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Thanks given by: | phobicsquirrel (10-19-2020), SpazeBlue (10-20-2020) |
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#4290 |
Expert Member
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This set really irritates me. There isn't a regular option in the US. Just digibooks with the scratching pages or the steelbook, which I also hate. I'll have to import it when the prices come down. They may release it in slim cases like Jurassic World I guess. But I want it now, and I cannot buy it with the crappy packaging options they are giving us.
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#4292 | |
Expert Member
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Thanks given by: | johnnyringo7 (10-19-2020) |
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#4294 |
Blu-ray Emperor
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Back to the Future (1985) 4K Dolby Vision review, UK UHD disc. HDR metadata: DCI-P3 colour primaries. Mastering display levels: 4000/0.005 max/min nits. Maximum Content Light Level: 1000 nits. Maximum Frame Average Light Level: 755 nits.
Are you sitting comfortably? Then we'll begin. BTTF was shot spherical on the two main 35mm taking formats of the period, high-speed and grainy as balls 5294 (the same 'infamous' stock as used on Aliens) for night exteriors, some interiors and VFX, with slower but still grainy-ish 5247 for daylight exteriors, some interiors and any bluescreen VFX shots (as the 94 stock was terrible for bluescreen but was used for general compositing here). Add to that the workmanlike cinematography and BTTF just isn't a 'pretty' film by any conventional standard, that's not a slight on DP Dean Cundey's work so much as Bob Zemeckis' direction, he's not known for expansive visuals and yet because he never got too bogged down in style or technique it means that his work ages nicely, it's not beholden to the pervading aesthetic of the period. I mean, I love uber-80s stuff like Manhunter as it's totally a product of its time, and its director, but it rubs some people the wrong way and what I love about BTTF's look is that it's just there to tell the story, not to do it up all flash like. It's a time travel film of coursh, so that perception of timelessness plays into it, ditto for something similarly '80s-bound like The Terminator, but even so, that's not a 'get out of temporal jail free' card when you start predicting the future. BTTF Part II's depiction of '2015' is the most hilariously dated thing in this entire trilogy as it somehow looks more screamingly '80s' than anything BTTF does! So, with the caveat that this movie was never going to be some ultra-sharp eyes-a-poppin' experience, what have Universal, Bob Gale and Dean Cundey cooked up for us in this brand new 4K transfer? The original Universal logo is still there and so are the original optical titles & opening credits, this is no digital rebuild for the text like on the UHDs of Blues Brothers or The Goonies. That's not a bad thing though as the opening sequence is a very slow reveal (and rather crafty exposition dump) of Doc's place, it looks fine for what it is, with moderate detail and some visible grain. The opticals remain until Marty finally strikes his guitar and blows the giant speaker, that first close-up of MJF emerging from under the mess sets the tone for what is to follow in this transfer, mostly: nice layer of grain, some excellent detail on the reflection in his glasses (which has HDR to thank as much as anything), and just a really solid sense of filmic texture that was simply gone on the horribly over-processed 2010 edition Blu-ray. There's just a touch of sharpening perhaps but nothing like the old BD! Has the grain been rolled off some? Undoubtedly, as this is no Sony-style shower curtain of grain, more a gentle veneer, though it still spikes in darker scenes and interiors. The VFX shots are very clean, clearly de-noised, but even they still look nicely filmic. From shot to shot the grain generally doesn't look too frozen or sticky, maybe in one or two scenes if you really look in the background as people move. There is however an entire block of the film that got "the treatment", for when Marty arrives in 1955 and he gets to the 'Lyon Estates' sign it instantly turns into a pasty-faced wax fest when he steps out of the car and it doesn't stop until he enters the cafe in Hill Valley, so look out for it from 33m58s to 37m25s. If I were being charitable, I'd say there's a possibility that this was done after the fact as a creative decision and not to gloss over any opticals or dupes as such, in order to play up the "it's gotta be a dream!" bewilderment that Marty feels. (Dean Cundey even says in the extras that he certainly lit the 1955 scenes more softly than the harsher present-dat stuff.) I may be giving Universal and Mr Gale far too much credit, and it still sucks that they did it in any case, but nowhere else in the entire film is the "grain management" this blindingly obvious so there must be some reason why they did it. Look at Marty when he starts the long walk into town along the road, a literal bubble of smoothness follows him as he moves. But, even if that stuff was 100% intended as a stylistic effect, there is an actual fault during this sequence as well from 36m13s to 36m41s, it's in the big pullback to the wide shot of Marty in the square and then the shot directly after of him looking up at the clock tower as it tolls. Those two shots lose a big chunk of resolution which results in visible aliasing on slanted details and that's nothing to do with opticals but with downright poor 4K mastering. How do I know it's poor? Because the exact same shots on the newly remastered 1080p BD are in the proper resolution and show more detail with no aliasing, this will be obvious when/if capsaholic get the caps of the new BD to compare to the UHD. How does this happen with concurrent 4K/2K mastering workflows? It's one thing that Spartacus got a bit of fiddling for the 4K HDR master five years after the remastered BD was done but come on, these new editions of BTTF were all struck from the same new transfer so this sort of silliness should not be happening. Or maybe they did the UHD first and spotted it too late to correct there but did so for the 1080p master? Either way, it's like Universal feel the need to add some kind of calling card to their new transfers, that we should never get too complacent because you never what kind of incompetence will sneak in, lol If it sounds like I'm being harsh on it over a 3½ minute sequence looking a bit funky then you're right, I am being harsh but only because the rest of the movie looks so darned luvverly. Well, almost the rest of the movie as there's something else weird that happens later on. (Yes, I'm getting the complaints out of the way early.) This is not DNR-related as such which is why it's escaped scrutiny thus far but there's an entire reel of the movie which has very blurry chroma. As above, it's nothing to do with opticals and is certainly not there on the previous HD transfer. From 1h14m28s when Marty and Doc are setting up the 'weather experiment' in the square to 1h24m15s when Marty implores Marvin's band to play after he's cut his hand, the colour is essentially defocused and bleeds horizontally, especially reds and blues. This has nothing to do with HDR10 vs DV (like the minor ghosting in one shot in JAWS' UHD) as the effect is there on both the HDR layer and the rebuilt FEL DV encode, it's even visible on the newly remastered BD albeit not as obvious owing to the lower chroma resolution of that format, so it's something that's baked in at a fundamental level to this new transfer. Maybe it was a cock-up during mastering, maybe the physical scan itself was faulty for this reel, dunno, but it's almost like you're watching smeary analogue video in a way because the colour is so ill-defined. There's still plenty of grain so it doesn't go all smooth and that will be enough to placate most people and hey, they'll remind me that "you just said this movie ain't gonna be pretty, chief", which is fair enough, but there's a difference between a so-so source presented as well as possible and a so-so source that's been fudged via unnecessary stupidity. Aaaaaand.....breathe. But hang on - didn't I say I "enjoyed the shit" out of the UHD before? I did, because I did. Despite what seems like a lot of nerd rage - more like geek disappointment - written above, the affected scenes only amount to ~14 minutes of wànkery in a 116-minute feature, the rest of it finally brings back the filmic flavour we've always wanted so desperately for this film. As I said at the top, it's not the most unfettered grain field you're ever gonna see which makes the transfer look a little dated somehow, and that will be more of a distraction for some people than others, but the increase in finer details over the previous versions is massive at times, even if it doesn't appear to "pop" like we may always expect 4K UHD to do. As I also said at the top, sometimes you just can't wring that much more from a source and people's expectations with "event movies" like this tend to run riot because they think that just because it was a big blockbuster movie that it was shot to look like Lawrence of Arabia. Nah. And as much as people might feel that BTTF isn't doing all that it can on 4K UHD, just compare it to the previous Blu or even the newly remastered one and that brings home how good it actually is, for what it is. The lack of resolution on the older BD is laughable at times, the new BD beats it up and the UHD goes up another notch, the grain in particular is more refined on the UHD whereas it looks a bit more 'digital' on the new BD, though the compression of the new BD isn't amazing so that may be part of it. Where the UHD wins by KO is the colour grading, I absolutely adore how this looks in HDR. It's not some blindingly bright light fest which is what I love about Universal's attitude towards older catalogue remasters (though the APL is quite high for a change, average brightness doesn't look dimmer than the SDR viewed @ 120 nits), but the amount of range it brings back in comparison to the old transfer is simply amazing. Not just on the usual lights and windows and stuff but in deep backgrounds, e.g. the views out of the 1955 cafe aren't blown out to nuclear levels any more, the background behind Doc and Marty in the school as they do their walk and talk, any kind of brighter background, the depth it gives to the imagery is stunning. I mean, it's so naturalistic that I guarantee some people will watch it and go "is that it?" because they're so desperate for everything to have been shot out of the Light Cannon™ to justify their HDR mania, and maybe we're just getting used to HDR so something needs to be ass-kick for us to notice it - though MaxCLL still hits 1000 nits - but my god: the irony is that the HDR on BTTF blows every other edition out of the water. (One area where they may have actually gone too far is with the animated lightning bolts that strike the clock tower, the increase in range is remarkable vs the old BD but it makes it look a bit more, ah, impressionistic while the old transfer with its clipped highlights made it feel more like bright lightning. You'll see what I mean in the photo section.) The old transfer was old, yes, with those typical blown highlights of a near 20-year-old HD telecine of an IP (as the previous transfer was done in 2002 for the DVDs), and the new 1080p BD does indeed bring back a lot of range even though it's in SDR but, again, the UHD just takes it a few steps further and shows even more range. And the new BD has that kind of hard, overly bright 'SDR downconversion' look that seems so common to new SDR discs from the studios these days. If there's one thing that annoyed me more than the DNR and EE on the old Blu-ray it was the colour, it was just horrible the way that skin tones had this hot orange look that also felt weirdly desaturated at the same time. The "DCP" version corrected this to a degree with more of a pinker flush to skin but the colour still felt very tired, Biff's red shirt in 1955 looks more a dark orange colour. The new SDR BD has a warmer look than either of them, not drenching the image in yellow but dialling out the greenier cast of the older transfer, and yet the skin tones in the new BD still lack pep and vitality, as do primaries. As said, it's just got that 'SDR conversion' look that makes it feel a bit pale, a bit flat. But the HDR colour on the UHD? Superb! Skin tones are full and rich, on the warmer side of the spectrum as noted (partly due to Cundey adding gels to the lighting in the 1955 scenes) but not lacking for nuance which is the crucial thing, and it's a world away from the one-note orange-peel look of the old BD. Primaries have a nice amount of zing and when this is all combined with the expanded dynamic range you get a colour grade that looks so 'complete', so at ease with itself, that it's like it was always meant to look like this. As such, some people will look at it and see nothing special, that's up to them and their blinkered perceptions/unrealistic expectations of what 4K HDR should be, but I can't emphasise enough how much I enjoyed this. Black levels do some interesting things between the separate versions as the old transfer was really heavy for black, it sucked up a ton of shadow detail. It didn't look bad necessarily as it gave the SDR image a lot of contrast but, as is quite common for HDR grades, they've been able to greatly open up the lower end while still maintaining contrast. Dark backgrounds like the Twin Pines Mall or Marty hitching a ride back to Lyon Estates have a load of shadow detail that's simply not there on previous editions yet they still look dark where they should look dark. Conversely, the shot of old man Peabody's house where they turn the lights on and come outside has been graded to look a bit darker than the previous transfer so this isn't some crass 'set and forget' application of black level, it's been carefully tended throughout. The new BD generally shares this increase in shadow detail so it's not an HDR thing per se, but that extra kick that you get to the highlights in HDR sets the UHD apart and makes it feel more expansive in the darker moments. Does this come across as an Apologist Review™ for BTTF on 4K HDR? Eh, I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but we've all got our own tolerances and likes/dislikes that outweigh others and this UHD does far more right than it does wrong IMO. Now, it's not that I can't see it's been generally fiddled with, separate from the actual technical snafus, and I said above that it looks a little dated as a result. If this had been what we were given 10 years ago it would've been lauded as state of the art (god knows people gushed enough about the grotty 2010 BDs, this would've blown their ****ing minds) but it's behind the times now, and not just in relation to what x other studios are doing as even Universal themselves are capable of providing an un****ed transfer of an '80s classic e.g. Blues Brothers (well, aside from the botched audio editing on the theatrical, this is Universal after all). Some movies don't ever seem to escape the gravitational pull of fudgery and BTTF is one of them, but it fights through it on 4K HDR and it could've been so much worse, the old BD is literal proof of that. And the compression is stellar, Universal have lavished a UHD100 disc on it that includes the previously released extras but not at the expense of the main encode, it's got a gigantinormous bitrate and I spotted no compression-related nasties at all. I love the movie like life itself, it's special to me, but this the first time in a long time where I Stopped Worrying About the Transfer and Watched the Movie w/ref to BTTF and its chequered past on 5" disc. It might not seem that way, given the reams of nit-picking above, but the overall look is not so offensive that it set me on edge, I just relaxed into it and the colour and HDR were so beautifully done that they drew me into the movie in a way I've not felt for a while. When the music swells at the end of 'Earth Angel' and George kisses Lorraine, wow, literally full body chills. I'm even feeling a little tingly as I think about it now, though that could just be the flu jab I had yesterday. THESE IMAGES ARE NOT INTENDED TO CONVEY THE ENTIRETY OF EITHER SDR OR HDR WITH 100% ACCURACY BUT ONLY SPECIFIC ASPECTS. THEY CAN ALSO BE MUCH DARKER THAN THE CONTENT ACTUALLY APPEARS OWING TO THE EXPOSURE NECESSARY TO CAPTURE THE DYNAMIC RANGE. The framing on several of the following snaps isn't perfick either because I did the ones of the new BD later on and couldn't quite get the same angle, but they convey what I wanna convey. First one here is Marty's pick when he about to play the guitar at the start of the movie, as soon as that glint reflected off it I was like "oooooooh yeah, that's some nice HDR". DCP [Show spoiler] 2010 BD [Show spoiler] 2020 BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] Jennifer talking to Marty in the town square, the colour isn't exact here as the camera (Sony RX100) is still oversaturating it but you can see how the older transfer (DCP and 2010 BD) has that greenier balance while the 2020 discs are warmer, though the UHD has more colour to her face and jacket vs the new BD. DCP [Show spoiler] 2010 BD [Show spoiler] 2020 BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] This is the 'future boy' stuff with 1955 Doc and Marty, the new transfer looks so much moodier. (Black levels are being slammed by the camera so don't take any 'crush' as gospel. New BD looks way more effective than the DCP or the shabby old BD, but again the UHD makes it come alive and retains more fine detail than any of them. DCP [Show spoiler] 2010 BD [Show spoiler] 2020 BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] Doc in the school, god I hated how the old BD looked in this scene, just that nasty orange hue to the faces with all the sharpening ladled on and yet his face still looks really smooth, blech. The DCP adds a load of texture but is soft, soft, soft, the new BD is a nice combo of colour and detail while the UHD makes it look even betterer. DCP [Show spoiler] 2010 BD [Show spoiler] 2020 BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] This is a closer-in shot that shows the colour bleed I was talking about, look at the red of the guitar, how it bleeds across into the tremelo bar and the dials while it's clean and clear on the old BD. You can even see the vertical smearing in the colour noise, how it looks all analogue-y. Yes, the UHD shows way more detail on the neck of the guitar because the luminance resolution isn't affect, it's the chroma channels that are wrecked. Hmmm. BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] This is just a quick comparison of the VFX shot of Marty's see-through hand, Ken Ralston told American Cinematographer that he thought this was the worst shot they did in the entire show but it's still effective in its own way. The new transfer hasn't been recomposited as such (IMO) but the mattle lines around the fingers seem less prominent than the old transfer, it's got a nicer blend. And the colour is way better. BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] This is to show the lightning that I referenced before, how it pulls back a massive amount of range but makes the animated effect far more obvious. It still looks okay in motion as these shots amount to a few seconds at most, but it's a definite change of destination and I'm not sure it was needed, i.e. just because they could do so in HDR doesn't mean they had to. Ah well, it was a small price to pay to get the HDR looking as luvverly as it does in the rest of the movie. (Framing isn't great on these photos, soz.) 2010 BD [Show spoiler] 2020 BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] Another one, this time of Doc hooking up the connector just as the lightning hits. Same dealio. 2010 BD [Show spoiler] 2020 BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler] Last photo, this is during the final VFX shot of the DeLorean flying into camera. The old BD blows out the 'temporal flashes' like mad while the new BD retains a load more range...but again, the UHD laughs at them both and provides even more range whilst adding more zing to the brightness. 2010 BD [Show spoiler] 2020 BD [Show spoiler] UHD [Show spoiler]
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#4297 |
Blu-ray Knight
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Question: My order with BestBuy.ca just says "In Progress" but they charged my card a few days ago. Is it normal not to get a tracking number? It says it's being shipped via Purolator and due to arrive on the 20th, which is fine with me lol. I have no idea if it actually shipped yet though, what does "In Progress" mean?
~Matt |
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#4299 | |
Power Member
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And it’s also sad to see these so called reviews on this very site don’t even mention such things, blindly giving a transfer 5 stars when it’s not. What would we do without guys like Geoff?! I’d probably doubt my own sanity at this point ![]() |
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Thanks given by: | AndyMT (10-19-2020), Bluyoda (10-19-2020), bwshihtzu (10-19-2020), Christian Muth (10-19-2020), craigpb (10-20-2020), dannycj (10-19-2020), DAT_JB (10-19-2020), Geoff D (10-19-2020), gigan72 (10-19-2020), Mierzwiak (10-19-2020), phobicsquirrel (10-19-2020), T.H.E. Cat (10-19-2020), teddyballgame (10-20-2020) |
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#4300 | |
Member
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But Universal's Hitchcock set is fine, so I'm hoping the BTTF set is made the same way. |
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