Back to the Future Trilogy 4K UHD (1985-1990)

[david_blu]

So I just put both my discs in the player and did proper comparison on the TV.

In my eyes rightly or wrongly I see the following a lot of encoding artifacts on the blu ray not present on the 4k. It doesnt look like it is using 720p frames I think it would look a helluva lot worse if it did but I think some numpty checked some sort of deinterlace button because the clock face looks correct on the 4k but the mantle/shelf of the top of the clock tower looks like some sort of field adjustment thing going on.

I don't think the blu ray had more detail just a bit noisy maybe resulting in the impression of better detail.

It may also be that they didn't use the same software for the blu ray and 4k encode so there are differences in the million and one things you can change on encoding nowadays.

So in conclusion I think something is not completely correct with the 4k but can't determine the root cause just by looking at the pictures on my TV.

[Mking78]

Set now down to $30. If it gets to $25 I will purchase, willing to pay that for the original movie in 4K….and I can then sell the other two��

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Mking78

Set now down to $30. If it gets to $25 I will purchase, willing to pay that for the original movie in 4K….and I can then sell the other two��

And you wonder why discs are fading away. Hmm...

[Mking78]

There is no question as to why physical media is fading away. And pairing up 2 throw away movies with one good one is not going to improve the situation. Nor is my purchasing this or that going to “support” the format. It’s up to those marketing the product to promote it properly or die. I love physical media but can already see that improving internet stream rates and the inclusion of 4k sound and picture options will eventually kill discs, just as streaming killed CDs. Yet there is more content available (and in higher resolution if desired) music out there for cheaper than ever….and I don’t have to buy a CD with only 3 songs I want. And I can assure you when BTTF is offered in a real high quality streaming format, they won’t expect me to pay for 3 movies to watch 1.

[Geoff D]

So physical media is dying because you don’t like BTTF II and III? Wut?

[Jimllfaxit]

Just wondering. Is it just the discs in the tight wallets that are having skipping problems, where one has to put finger and thumb in to get them out or is it all discs no matter what packaging ?

[johnnyringo7]

Originally Posted by Mking78

There is no question as to why physical media is fading away. And pairing up 2 throw away movies with one good one is not going to improve the situation. Nor is my purchasing this or that going to “support” the format. It’s up to those marketing the product to promote it properly or die. I love physical media but can already see that improving internet stream rates and the inclusion of 4k sound and picture options will eventually kill discs, just as streaming killed CDs. Yet there is more content available (and in higher resolution if desired) music out there for cheaper than ever….and I don’t have to buy a CD with only 3 songs I want. And I can assure you when BTTF is offered in a real high quality streaming format, they won’t expect me to pay for 3 movies to watch 1.

Almost everything you said is wrong.

[Bellicose]

Originally Posted by wright96d

I completely understand that and I see where you're coming from. I would just really like to try my damnedest to get Universal's attention and try to get it fixed, or at least get some sort of response. I know it's unlikely that anything will come of it, but I don't want that to stop me from at least trying. I'll probably give up after a month or two. Not after 2 weeks.

Also, that sucks to hear about Grease. What made it worse?

I would also like you to try your hardest. I have no idea why people would even put something down like this.

But there is also the possibility they are just using insane DNR no? That kind of sucks, but it's also why I wouldn't pay more than 30 for this set.

I doubt any new masters. These films have always had issues. I don't totally understand it all. I know effects and what not contribute, but at least they look much better than the old blurays.

[Bellicose]

Originally Posted by Mking78

There is no question as to why physical media is fading away. And pairing up 2 throw away movies with one good one is not going to improve the situation. Nor is my purchasing this or that going to “support” the format. It’s up to those marketing the product to promote it properly or die. I love physical media but can already see that improving internet stream rates and the inclusion of 4k sound and picture options will eventually kill discs, just as streaming killed CDs. Yet there is more content available (and in higher resolution if desired) music out there for cheaper than ever….and I don’t have to buy a CD with only 3 songs I want. And I can assure you when BTTF is offered in a real high quality streaming format, they won’t expect me to pay for 3 movies to watch 1.

These kinds of posts are so ridiculously dumbfounded lol. First of all, CD wasn't really killed. It's still there, and tons of artists still release CDs. Pretty much everyone still does. This isn't killed. Just because music doesn't sell 10m all the time now doesn't mean much. It sells all that in digital, but physical is still higher quality than an average stream, and plenty of people still value albums believe it or not.

I have 4TB and more of music digitally. I also have a decently large CD collection along with SACDs, blurays, and DVDAs for audio.

The entire set is 30 bucks lmao. OH NOES 10 dollars for a 4K version of the films and blurays and tons of extras! WOWEE ZOWEE. You are on an enthusiast's forum ranting about crappy quality streams and the death of physical media.

Welcome to 2008 bud. It's 2021 though. And people don't need to hear these useless diatribes anymore. Eventually, some day, maybe in 20 years, maybe never because people like to own stuff, and 4K seems to be doing so fine that they keep releasing all kinds of stuff on it.

[stratford]

Originally Posted by Mking78

Set now down to $30. If it gets to $25 I will purchase, willing to pay that for the original movie in 4K….and I can then sell the other two��

Have you got a gofundme page? $us 5 in most states is 30 min at legal min?

[stratford]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

And you wonder why discs are fading away. Hmm...

So when then haven't lending libraries of any sought killed of business that sell the same thing to own? Some people borrow books from a library to read once, some people buy the book to own, all are happy

[Bellicose]

Originally Posted by david_blu

I'm not completely convinced by the suggestion that it is using the wrong files.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x...0&l=0&i=6&go=1

In the frame above I highlighted the clock face, look at how the the blu ray has sort of furry circle edge but the 4k is perfectly round. If a 720 file had been used wouldn't that be full of jaggered edges?

Back to this. I am also not believing a 720 file was used unless valid proof is there. 720 would produce massive issues in places when blown up, and would be super easy to spot I would think.

But I certainly think people should follow up and talk about it. Film stock and DNR can really warp an image. We know that for sure.

[wright96d]

Originally Posted by david_blu

I'm not completely convinced by the suggestion that it is using the wrong files.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x...0&l=0&i=6&go=1

In the frame above I highlighted the clock face, look at how the the blu ray has sort of furry circle edge but the 4k is perfectly round. If a 720 file had been used wouldn't that be full of jaggered edges?

Originally Posted by Bellicose

Back to this. I am also not believing a 720 file was used unless valid proof is there. 720 would produce massive issues in places when blown up, and would be super easy to spot I would think.

But I certainly think people should follow up and talk about it. Film stock and DNR can really warp an image. We know that for sure.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...0&l=0&i=6&go=1

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...9&l=0&i=5&go=1

If you can look at this vent grate and tower ledge, or that brickwork, and tell me the 4K looks like DNR, or film stock, when the Blu-Ray looks fine, then I've got a bridge to sell you. With all due respect, I'm open to discussion, but use your brains. DNR would NOT have been applied to the 4K and NOT the Blu-Ray. That kind of CONSCIOUS processing decision would NOT have been applied to one and NOT the other. They were created back to back, as part of the same project. It sure as hell wouldn't have consciously been applied to outdoor scenes, effectively scrubbing out all fine detail. I also assume I'm one of the only people here that actually works with video and uses proxy files. I know what they look like. They look like that. I'm really not sure how much more I can do to convince you but tell you to look at the screencaps I posted and use your brains. DNR doesn't do that. It's not THAT destructive. DNR DOES NOT CAUSE ALIASING.

[david_blu]

Originally Posted by wright96d

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...0&l=0&i=6&go=1

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...9&l=0&i=5&go=1

If you can look at this vent grate and tower ledge, or that brickwork, and tell me the 4K looks like DNR, or film stock, when the Blu-Ray looks fine, then I've got a bridge to sell you. With all due respect, I'm open to discussion, but use your brains. DNR would NOT have been applied to the 4K and NOT the Blu-Ray. That kind of CONSCIOUS processing decision would NOT have been applied to one and NOT the other. They were created back to back, as part of the same project. It sure as hell wouldn't have consciously been applied to outdoor scenes, effectively scrubbing out all fine detail. I also assume I'm one of the only people here that actually works with video and uses proxy files. I know what they look like. They look like that. I'm really not sure how much more I can do to convince you but tell you to look at the screencaps I posted and use your brains. DNR doesn't do that. It's not THAT destructive. DNR DOES NOT CAUSE ALIASING.

You dont have to get all angsty I agreed there is something wrong, I don't think it is dnr.
Like I said it looks more like a deinterlace button. Playing with the field order when there is no need in 4k or applying a de interlace in the form of adapt, double, top field adapt etc would do the silly things with the edges you are seeing in the caps. I think the image base is 4k and an accidental de interlace has provided those weird edges and removed the detail.

[wright96d]

Originally Posted by david_blu

You dont have to get all angsty I agreed there is something wrong, I don't think it is dnr.
Like I said it looks more like a deinterlace button. Playing with the field order when there is no need in 4k or applying a de interlace in the form of adapt, double, top field adapt etc would do the silly things with the edges you are seeing in the caps. I think the image base is 4k and an accidental de interlace has provided those weird edges and removed the detail.

Sorry for the angst. The relatively low interest in the forum, lack of interest from Universal, and lack of interest from every reviewing authority under the sun has made this a touchy subject for me.

[Bellicose]

Originally Posted by wright96d

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...0&l=0&i=6&go=1

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...9&l=0&i=5&go=1

If you can look at this vent grate and tower ledge, or that brickwork, and tell me the 4K looks like DNR, or film stock, when the Blu-Ray looks fine, then I've got a bridge to sell you. With all due respect, I'm open to discussion, but use your brains. DNR would NOT have been applied to the 4K and NOT the Blu-Ray. That kind of CONSCIOUS processing decision would NOT have been applied to one and NOT the other. They were created back to back, as part of the same project. It sure as hell wouldn't have consciously been applied to outdoor scenes, effectively scrubbing out all fine detail. I also assume I'm one of the only people here that actually works with video and uses proxy files. I know what they look like. They look like that. I'm really not sure how much more I can do to convince you but tell you to look at the screencaps I posted and use your brains. DNR doesn't do that. It's not THAT destructive. DNR DOES NOT CAUSE ALIASING.

First of all tone it down man. Use. PNGs please. You have no idea what anybody does here. Don't go spouting off on illogical rants. That's a good way to not get taken seriously.

DNR can be as destructive as you want it to be. The idea that it cannot erase that minute amount of detail is absurd in the second shot. It easily can. DNR and the tools associated with DNR can do all kinds of things including messing up an image to produce aliasing if extra tools are misconfigured.

You said you work with video. Well you obviously have a hazy idea what studio quality DNR tools can do.

The ledge is one of the only suspect areas there. But here in another shot in the same frame you see very little edge aliasing:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...0&l=1&i=6&go=1

And as you can clearly see below the old bluray edition was horribly graded, with extremely low-res shadow detail. That's on 1080p. If this were truly 720p these issues should be consistent everywhere. But they are not really with the aliasing stuff, not on the photos you produced. Also, there should be more issues we are seeing if this was actually 720p, especially in high-contrast areas and shadows.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...0&l=1&i=6&go=1

Here there are almost no differences in detail between the two in the first shot:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=2&x...0&l=1&i=6&go=1

You are cherry picking stuff and then jumping to conclusions, screaming at people to use their brains... the idea is nobody has access to the actual info we need, and your idea that this cannot be a bad master with sharpening vs a 4K master with little to no sharpening, not much more detail, and some misconfigured tools is not proven.

Both of the 1080p masters there look really bad with macroblocking everywhere. If this were 720p you would most likely see all kinds of random issues like that, especially in shadows. It does have one more refined edge on that specific area.

The blurays are sharpened or just really poorly encoded via bad bitrates or low resolution. It looks gross in comparison. That area does look better, and there is marginally more detail to be seen in lines. Heavy DNR and other noise reduction algorithms could easily mangle a straight line running through a film. We've seen all kinds of things it can do along with other tools in the chain. That doesn't mean it is not a proxy, but it doesn't mean it is either. The first image I gave you shows no such issues on the straight lines on a similar feature in the same frame.

If what you are saying is true, almost all edge should have these issues. They don't. Furthermore, the second image you produced just looks like a really bad high contrast image with sharpening applied and a bit more detail in the bricks. The second looks like a properly graded image with excessive DNR. I don't know where you are going with this. 720p would not be my guess at least for everything. It would be a noise reduction algorithm not being looked after by my bet, but it could be something else too.

The idea here is nobody has proof of anything, so inductive logic is all you have. Stop acting like you have deduced this issue with full proof or something.

[david_blu]

Originally Posted by wright96d

Sorry for the angst. The relatively low interest in the forum, lack of interest from Universal, and lack of interest from every reviewing authority under the sun has made this a touchy subject for me.

No worries, passion is good, why we are all here, it is difficult to understand how these things fall through the net but there we are.

[wright96d]

Just a reminder, if you do agree that there is a problem with the 4K, and you would like to see it fixed, please contact Universal.

https://www.uphe.com/en/contact-support

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Xen11

There's no nice way to say I'm wrong because there is no way to say I'm wrong, because I'm not wrong. The colors do not change. The pictures are there for you to see. There's even a regular Blu-ray version of the same transfer right there for you to see.

Is what I'm saying to you a nice way of showing that you're in total denial because you can't handle the fact that the original blu-ray had a better color-timing than the newer blu-ray and HD blu-ray you sank all your money, hopes, and dreams into?

Originally Posted by Xen11

I'm not trying to fix or change anything. I'm not ranting about anything. I said that I prefer the color-timing of the 25th anniversary addition. Then UHD-enthusiasts start touting that HDR images are too awesome to be seen by any capturing, therefore I must not know how HDR works (which is false). HDR is not going to change the color-timing. It's clear between the two regular blu-ray pictures that the two transfers are two different color timings. An HDR enhanced version of the UHD capture is not going to magically change the color-timing to be like the 25th anniversary edition's color-timing.

But let's smug away because this lowly regular-blu-loving fool likes his old-school color-timing.

You can like what you like, no one objects to personal preferences.

Converted HDR to SDR cannot capture the higher dynamic range or the wider color gamut of the source disc. It's like trying to pour 70cl Don Julio 1942 Tequila into one shot-glass. You're losing some of that smooth goodness during the process.

No, it's not going to change massive pushes with regards to color grading, but HDR converted captures don't tell the full story.

[Bellicose]

Honestly, as we have been using the old one to compare, I have no idea what that person likes with that version. It's contrast-boosted, sharpened, has a lot of macroblocking, and it's poorly colored IMHO. While it looks okay I guess, it certainly doesn't look great, and there is not much to hate about the new version. Turn your contrast up I guess.